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Shadow Warrior - "New Episode"

User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,488

#1291

View Postenderandrew, on 31 October 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

SW and Eduke32 both have pretty permissive licenses. There shouldn't be license nightmares combining those. In fact, it seem the initial decision to do that and the heavy lifting there was @Hendricks266.

I read through every page of this thread even though I'm a copy/paste coder who rarely does any development. It seems to me in all the threads I read from ICD that he wants to jump in and make something. So he isn't afraid to experiment or rewrite things, which usually leads to consternation from Evan, who doesn't want his code changed or tinkered with. FWIW, reading over all these threads it seems like we should appreciate new work being done and it helps to be open to new ideas, but sometimes ICD runs into issues because he doesn't know the existing code base as well as others.

I see Evan constantly claiming that ICD refuses to listen to any feedback, and then ICD begging for specific feedback. FWIW, I've also see ICD compromise or make changes given feedback. But literally never have I seen Hendricks266 be open to accepting any code from ICD. This impass saddens me. I get that ICD hasn't finished the big rocks he started, but his repositories are open and there has been clear progress.

I wish there was more specifics given for the technical differences between the sides so we can end up with a usable SW port.

As for why ICD is bouncing forth between new features in this port (when some people just want a basic SW port that plays the base game and 2 expansions to start) is precisely because ultimately ICD wants to make a mod for a new episode. I don't see this as a contradiction or a shift in direction. The base game can't run the mod he wants. A straight source port can't either. Playing with new features informs what he can and cannot do with a mod. He also split his repository so that one branch is more of a straight port, and other stuff is separated as new features for the mod.

FWIW, I do often fall on ICD's side of thinking in that bringing in a separately well maintained library for a function just makes sense. As for the lengthy argument over which model format to support, I keep wondering:

video = cut

Let modders use whatever works for them.

I hope some of the negativity hasn't chased off ICD and that his work will continue in time. He has disappeared before, and come back again when time allowed.

I always respond to a quote.

My two cents:
1. The license nightmare pertained to the open source portions mixed with planned propriety plug-ins.
2. duke4 forums can be a harsh place.
3. Since day one, it was clear that this port is doing its own thing.
4. The Eduke32 team is not obliged to assist with programmers doing their own thing.
5. If/when ICD comes back, great, if not, great too. His life, his spare time. :)

The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: 01 November 2017 - 03:03 PM

2

User is offline   enderandrew 

  • 5

#1292

View PostHank, on 01 November 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

I always respond to a quote.

My two cents:
1. The license nightmare pertained to the open source portions mixed with planned propriety plug-ins.
2. duke4 forums can be a harsh place.
3. Since day one, it was clear that this port is doing its own thing.
4. The Eduke32 team is not obliged to assist with programmers doing their own thing.
5. If/when ICD comes back, great, if not, great too. His life, his spare time. :)

1. That seems different from what you said. You said he created a license nightmare by combining Shadow Warrior with EDuke32.
2. I think ICD gets that. He jokes about everyone hating him and he seems to roll with the punches.
3. Yes, but if this is the first shipped method for using EDuke32's engine to run SW, then people will want to use it and will seek support. It behooves everyone to find a way to get the core support for SW upstream.
4. They are not obligated, but again, it behooves everyone to try and foster community contributions.
5. I agree. Such is the nature of volunteer work.

Look, I'm an engineer. I'm all for focusing on the best code and best solution. All I'm saying is that if people aren't happy with new code that is offered up, it is better to provide constructive and actionable criticism on the code. Everyone wins.
1

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,162

#1293

View Postenderandrew, on 03 November 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Look, I'm an engineer. I'm all for focusing on the best code and best solution. All I'm saying is that if people aren't happy with new code that is offered up, it is better to provide constructive and actionable criticism on the code. Everyone wins.

maybe I'm taking it wrong, but you seem to think that what ICD was doing was supposed to be the 'one and only swiss army knife eduke port for shadow warrior'.

It wasn't.

He veered off the original code to do his own thing, added third party plugins that weren't compatible with the eduke license, and wasn't interested in input from hendricks, tx, or anybody else.

Repeating and bolding the fact that ICD was not interested in other people's expert input isn't sinking into your head is it?

Noble altruism looks good in type, but isn't a practical application in this instance.

This post has been edited by Forge: 03 November 2017 - 02:13 PM

4

User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,488

#1294

View Postenderandrew, on 03 November 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

1. That seems different from what you said. You said he created a license nightmare by combining Shadow Warrior with EDuke32.
2. I think ICD gets that. He jokes about everyone hating him and he seems to roll with the punches.
3. Yes, but if this is the first shipped method for using EDuke32's engine to run SW, then people will want to use it and will seek support. It behooves everyone to find a way to get the core support for SW upstream.
4. They are not obligated, but again, it behooves everyone to try and foster community contributions.
5. I agree. Such is the nature of volunteer work.

Look, I'm an engineer. I'm all for focusing on the best code and best solution. All I'm saying is that if people aren't happy with new code that is offered up, it is better to provide constructive and actionable criticism on the code. Everyone wins.

1. Nah, prolly a case of my very bad English. Eduke32 and Shadow Warrior are both under the same GPL Big Shit license. I just strongly dislike IQM and OpenAl crap (try to get a current proper software for this garbage), but I ain't the inner circle here, and haven't a fucking clue why Collada/FBX and Fmod cain't work with those engines.

5. Luv ya. Yep, that's the bottom line. ICD gave me a lot of inspiration for new models, textures and sounds. If he comes back, open arms, hugs and kisses from me.

Ha, I'm a Mechanical Consultant, and agreed; but, as I just just wrote I don't have to worry about GPL. All my coding is done, closed, and with the help of a lot of very, very smart people. I think, in all my life I wrote 150 lines of code, the rest is cut and paste. :P

The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: 03 November 2017 - 07:01 PM

0

User is online   Ninjakitty 

  • 80

#1295

Anyone here really good at sketching?

When life gives you lemons... https://youtu.be/CM-CIvMEqUs?t=52
1

User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer
  • 5,631

  #1296

View Postenderandrew, on 03 November 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

3. Yes, but if this is the first shipped method for using EDuke32's engine to run SW, then people will want to use it and will seek support. It behooves everyone to find a way to get the core support for SW upstream.

No, https://forums.duke4...g-with-polymer/ was the first shipped method.

I also remind you that ice's changes were consistently bad. There was nothing to merge with upstream because we would have needed to throw out all of his work anyway.
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