[Mike Norvak]

Hi everyone. It is really weird for me that we don't have a game design thread since many of us spend our free time modding, so it wouldn't hurt to know some of the principles of good game design.

Working on my new mod episode (don't worry I'm using WGR2 as a base, so I haven't abandoned anything I've done before) in the last year or so I've came across multiple sources of tips that have helped me a lot to improve my maps, most regarding gameplay.

I think most uers maps have some design flaws that could be easily adressed, like placing gameplay (mosters, switches, keycards) just after the architecture is finished, make the player wander around with any clues on where to go next, make one huge map using all the resources instead of make small chunks that can be divided thematically, left betatesting to the end when almost nothing can be changed, etc...

I know we make this for passion, but why not to explore game design more in depth? here's a list of books, pages and videos that could really help us, to improve our skills regarding mapping and modding.




A wonderful book that explains game design through logical steps and what the author calls "lens" or metodologies to see some aspect of the game:

http://www.sg4adults...game-design.pdf

DREAM WORLDS

HOW TO PLAN LEVEL DESIGN AND ENVIRONMENTS IN 11 STEPS

INTRODUCTION AT LEVEL DESIGN

LEVEL UP

TACTICAL LEVEL DESIGN

LEVEL DESIGN IDEAS AND LOCATIONS

HOW ARE PUZZLE GAMES DESIGNED

TECHNICAL AND ARTISTIC EXPLANATIONS

EVALUATING GAME MECHANICS


We can share tips here well here, how Duke maps can be improved, etc.

There's a tip that stuck in my mind but I can?t find where I read it, basically it said that your level must be a GAME MECHANIC DISPENSER that means that the level is there to show and make understand the player one specific game mechanic at a time, so when the player gets the game mechanic he can be presented with another game mechanic or mix previous mechanics together.

[Mark]

A while back a thread was started about what makes a good map. But no harm in starting another. I didn't read through any of your pdf links yet but I did follow some of the Youtube links that popped up after your linked video.

It seems I break just about every design tip mentioned. No advanced planning on paper or in my head. No specific goals or player direction. I create small areas at a time without taking into account the larger picture. Texturing areas right away, not putting in any gameplay elements so that testing can be done and mapping corrections made early. Gameplay is usually the last thing I do in a map. Most times I don't plan ahead of time for TROR which can make it very difficult or impossible to do later in the process. I gather textures and models while mapping instead of having assets ready to go. On a personal note, I work better with a small team. I'm not a perfectionist and when left on my own, I tend to cut corners. With a team they can speak up and get me to go that extra little bit.

In other words, don't learn good design practices from me.

[oasiz]

I recently got pretty inspired after a random trip to a book store with mostly old & really old books.
Pretty inspirational to check out various 50s/60s/70s/etc.. architectural books, stuff that exist in real life and stuff that exist only as concepts. Also importantly: what "makes" a certain style what it is.

I think that a lot of people neglect the process of building a vivid image of the area in your head before starting to map.
This can be various concepts / prototypes / layouts sketched down before you even open the editor.

Even with a vague plan, mapping is much easier and ends up being more consistent.

I'll have to read through these links with time, thanks !

[Mike Norvak]

@Mark

I pretty much worked the same in my maps and earlier versions of the mod, but it wasn't until a year and a half that I realized that if I gonna release a full mod it makes no sense to design it as it if wasn't a complete game, so I started investigate what Game Design is all about. Trust me it really helps and saves a lo of time to plan the level and gameplay beforehand and then build around a clear idea on what the player is gonna fight, discover and do trough the maps. Especially if you want to give your maps a non linear exploration 90's feel. (Not that designers in that era have many background rules guiding over that) Anyways I find really interesting to study what makes good design in videogames despite I can use all the info in my own projects or not.

@Oasiz. You're welcome, I think there a lot of tips that can be applied right away in new Duke maps.

[Mike Norvak]

http://tvtropes.org/...tiveLevelDesign

[Mike Norvak]

https://youtu.be/iQjRIB39Lfk

[Mike Norvak]

I really hope some of you are interested on these topics.

Frictional Games has a blog dedicated to game design. Here's an article worth reading:

http://frictionalgam...allacy.html?m=1

[OpenMaw]

Actually I wanted to chime in and say thank you Mr. Norvak. I'm actually making a lot of use of this thread.

[Mike Norvak]

You're welcome Comando Nukem!

[Mike Norvak]

http://frictionalgam...nation.html?m=1

[leilei]

I used to dive into this book some 17 years ago. It might be lamer stuff nowadays but i've learned stuff out of it then, and....on second thought, considering all the ue4/unity trash games out there, this book may still have merit

(Haven't read newer editions. Also there's a few bits of 99-era DNF pics/art in there and the storyboard for the Duke3d ending IIRC)

[Mike Norvak]

It looks really cool, I wouldn't call it lame since is a game design book from 1995. I mean, if someone want to make classic styled maps this must be a source. Do you still have the book? Some scans of you favorite sections would be really cool.

[Mike Norvak]

Interesting video about quest in games.

https://youtu.be/ur6GQp5mCYs

[ck3D]

Thanks for the links, this is a great thread.

My wee contribution to the list: https://medium.com/i...gn-e187e45c744c

It's a popular article, nothing veteran mappers should be surprised with or not have figured out by themselves, yet still a great checklist of reminders, translating those over to Duke mapping is a lot of fun and makes one realize at least 95% of user maps for that game fail in at least one of those departments - which sometimes only add to their respective charms, but if anything it's always interesting to consider alternative ways to make a level work.

[Mike Norvak]

Great article, it reminds me something Bob Averill said in a (now deleted) video of himself playing BOBSP04. Good gameplay can be resumed to a simple sentence: "Reward the player for pattern recognition". We as designers consciously or unconsciously give players patterns they need to learn, the problem comes when we break prematurely that pattern or make it difficult to learn or even worse we make no pattern at all, confusing players.

[ck3D]

That is also a good point, I think what was to me the most interesting moment of that article (in regards to Duke mapping) was the bits on the importance of focal points, verticality and the like. Thinking of it now, most of the original Duke maps were pretty enclosed, even the more supposedly open ones I can think of e.g. Flood Zone so they never really needed an abundance of huge visual hints to tell the player where to go besides the occasional neon sign, landmarks just weren't as much as a necessity because levels back then were of a smaller dimension that the more 'open world' type of maps users and fans have been creating. Lately I've been experimenting with focusing on those concepts with the larger maps I've been making, and found out that even ridiculously colossal constructions or extreme lighting effects one normally wouldn't dare implementing are worth breaking out of one's shell for because they actually help define the character of certain corners of your level and, if done right, can actually add a lot to the depth and atmosphere.

I like to think Billy Boy had an impressive sense for that, quite early on; too bad that quality never really carried over some other aspects of the gameplay in his maps all too well. But I feel like he was one of the first to really break the norm the original game had established in terms of dimension, verticality and overall scale, all the while working with nothing but the original Build limits and 1024 walls at the time. Generally, it's interesting (albeit only logical) how it seemingly took a few years for people to start questioning ways the engine hadn't been pushed yet by the original game itself, and the difference in output when people started to go for that in sometimes polar opposite fashions (Billy Boy vs. Bob Averill would be the two extremes of the spectrum). William Gee's approach was also similar in terms of readjusting the scope; another early example (and a personal favorite) would be New York Plaza which was such an interesting level; Anslem, too. But in general, I think with Duke the scale of the original levels has left a mark on people's minds to the point where to this day, most user maps remain relatively enclosed (excepting ones such as Clear the Coast, WGCity etc.), happening in pretty tight streets or corridors. Not a bad thing as basic fun is still fun, but I'm always interested in more possibilities and I think following those 'guidelines' from that article could prove as interesting if one is to try and make bigger scale, open world type of levels.

[Forge]

ck3D, on 29 November 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

I like to think...

Most of those people and maps you mentioned took advantage of computer advancements. Processor speed had tripled from Mar '96 to Jan '99.
This allowed them to break from the norm.
The maps in the original Duke3D game couldn't even use 100% of their available resources (walls, sectors, sprites) without bogging down the average home PC at the time.

Not discrediting their creativity, but they had more to work with.

[ck3D]

Yeah, that's true. Good ol' USS Framerate.

[Mike Norvak]

ck3D, on 29 November 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

That is also a good point, I think what was to me the most interesting moment of that article (in regards to Duke mapping) was the bits on the importance of focal points, verticality and the like. Thinking of it now, most of the original Duke maps were pretty enclosed, even the more supposedly open ones I can think of e.g. Flood Zone so they never really needed an abundance of huge visual hints to tell the player where to go besides the occasional neon sign, landmarks just weren't as much as a necessity because levels back then were of a smaller dimension that the more 'open world' type of maps users and fans have been creating. Lately I've been experimenting with focusing on those concepts with the larger maps I've been making, and found out that even ridiculously colossal constructions or extreme lighting effects one normally wouldn't dare implementing are worth breaking out of one's shell for because they actually help define the character of certain corners of your level and, if done right, can actually add a lot to the depth and atmosphere.

Also I think back then there were no clear rules regarding those points, for example putting a hidden hole behind a poster expecting the player to make the connection between an in-game map and the actual map game as the only clue on where to go next isn't the best game design out there (talking about E1L3).

It would be really cool if someone like Davox or Oasis could talk about the map design approach for Ion Fury. Is there actually a blog or something about it?

I'm eager to see what you come up with in your next map BTW!