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Duke Nukem

User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Duke4 Thot Patrol
  • 3,853

#61

 Duke of Hazzard, on 13 May 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

IMO the priority would be to fix some of the bad things about WT, most of all the sound effects. Map lighting can be fine tuned as well. We're in an era when it's actually easier to do this and it'll give Gearbox good rep if they actually do it.

People look at original Duke release with rose-tinted glasses, but it did have some issues of its own... Weapon balance for example was all over the place, with weapons like Shrinker being too good with very abundant ammo, while the Freezer was a bad version of the Shrinker. The Freezer would only become good in Atomic Edition, because it's the best weapon against the Newbeasts, but Atomic Edition introduced the Expander, which is quite weak and has too little ammo capacity (a full Expander clip can't even kill a Battlelord IIRC, and Battlelord itself can't be expanded either, though it can be shrunk and frozen). Devastator made later bosses pathetically easy, too, to the point I sometimes avoid using it. Hardest boss in the game is Battlelord, against which you can't have Devastator (but then Doom was the same since you didn't have BFG against Cyberdemon and you could easily kill the Spider Mastermind with it, which had less hitpoints than Cyberdemon). Duke wasn't the only game of the era with balance issues, of course, in fact it was the norm rather than the exception, but we still loved it because it was (and still is) so fun.

Ports of other games would take a while. Shadow Man and Turok didn't appear out of nowhere, there were PC versions of those back in the day so the code was much easier to reverse-engineer. Not the case with Time to Kill, Zero Hour and Land of the Babes.

Even if Zero Hour couldn't be "cracked" which I very well believe it could be, it would be completely possible to remake faithfully in the Build Engine. It would just take a lot of time and effort.
2

User is offline   Shaq Fu 

  • 116

#62

Hey Randy! I wish you and your company the best of luck in giving Duke Nukem the comeback he deserves. I believe such a return is possible but it seems really challenging to find which direction to take the brand. You got this man.
0

User is offline   KaijuTurtle 

  • 64

#63

Not being a prominent member of the community myself, the skype group/google hangout idea is cool... as long as those of us who don't get to participate in the conversation get a relay of what's discussed.
0

User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer
  • 567

#64

 Sanek, on 13 May 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

Guys, can you stop posting for a while? He don't even wrote a new post yet, and probably never will if you continue bombarding this theard with myriads of wishes! I mean, I hope there will be some dialogue, but there will be higher chance of it if you don't wrote all your questions at the same time!


Btw, it's nice to see someone like Randy Pitchford here. :)


That's exactly why I made this other thread:

https://forums.duke4...g-duke-nukem-ip

To make sure the requests stay on top, and avoid searching walls of text for who ever is gonna ask Randy or for himself.
2

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,270

#65

 Randy Pitchford, on 13 May 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

.....
But I suspect the most interesting questions to this community are the more complex or difficult questions that I may be helpful in answering. I think a discussion about those questions deserves a proper forum so that a true back-and-forth interaction is possible.

I'd like to recommend a group skype or google hangout. I can probably enlist someone from the PR or Marketing team here at the studio to host/moderate such a thing if this community can figure out a method amongst itself to agree on which four or five people should participate with me. It's likely that someone credible with this community (TerminX?) will have to volunteer to be a coordinator between us and this forum in organizing logistics.

Thoughts?

I'll check back again tomorrow to see what begins to formulate.

Hail to the King,

- Randy

Your time is surely limited, so is this going to be a one time event?
It would be appreciated if the discussion could be recorded (on your end and any necessary edits done by your PR staff) then made available for the rest of us to view.
Doing so could possibly drum up new ideas, questions, and thoughts which could be put forth in future meetings, if there are going to be any after this. Hopefully so; there's quite a bit of material to go over.

This post has been edited by Forge: 13 May 2017 - 04:13 PM

2

User is offline   Mr. Tibbs 

  • 1,158

#66

I think your proposal sounds like a great idea, and I wish to thank you for giving the community your time.
0

User is offline   HiPolyBash 

  • 396

#67

 TerminX, on 13 May 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

Re-releasing some of those older console games for PC isn't exactly going to make a ton of money. The real important matter is the future of Duke--what works, what doesn't, and how to make the character work in today's world without catering to the social justice types who would never buy a Duke Nukem game in the first place. It's a tough situation when the game bloggers at places like Polygon and Kotaku are on a completely different page than the potential customer base. Hell, people like ol' Benny K were so upset about the content of DNF that they even went as far as to lie about it in reviews on sites like Ars Technica, claiming that the game forced you to murder innocent women to proceed.

The thing is the character in every game before Duke Nukem Forever is what people want. In Forever, Duke World Tour and Bulletstorm remastered he does not look, act or even sound very much like Duke Nukem. This is a common complaint by a lot of people in the Duke Nukem community. The character has gone from being a witty cool 'ultimate alien ass-kicker' to almost pure comedy driven parody. Making the character work is as simple as looking to Duke Nukem 3D, Manhattan Project and Zero Hour for inspiration. The reason people don't like Duke and keep writing about what to change with the character is Duke Forever and coincidentally Duke Forever to Duke fans is about as far from what people actually want in a Duke game in just about every way. It's okay to have strippers or babes in a game but when it's the main focus and you have lines like 'looks like you're fucked' in an alien hive with impregnated girls it's being done wrong. Even George Broussard has said that he didn't like Duke Nukems characterization or dialogue in Forever saying it was the only game he did not directly supervise or was responsible for when it came to character.

Posted Image Posted Image
9

User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 232

#68

 Duke of Hazzard, on 13 May 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

IMO the priority would be to fix some of the bad things about WT, most of all the sound effects. Map lighting can be fine tuned as well. We're in an era when it's actually easier to do this and it'll give Gearbox good rep if they actually do it.

People look at original Duke release with rose-tinted glasses, but it did have some issues of its own... Weapon balance for example was all over the place, with weapons like Shrinker being too good with very abundant ammo, while the Freezer was a bad version of the Shrinker. The Freezer would only become good in Atomic Edition, because it's the best weapon against the Newbeasts, but Atomic Edition introduced the Expander, which is quite weak and has too little ammo capacity (a full Expander clip can't even kill a Battlelord IIRC, and Battlelord itself can't be expanded either, though it can be shrunk and frozen). Devastator made later bosses pathetically easy, too, to the point I sometimes avoid using it. Hardest boss in the game is Battlelord, against which you can't have Devastator (but then Doom was the same since you didn't have BFG against Cyberdemon and you could easily kill the Spider Mastermind with it, which had less hitpoints than Cyberdemon). Duke wasn't the only game of the era with balance issues, of course, in fact it was the norm rather than the exception, but we still loved it because it was (and still is) so fun.

Ports of other games would take a while. Shadow Man and Turok didn't appear out of nowhere, there were PC versions of those back in the day so the code was much easier to reverse-engineer. Not the case with Time to Kill, Zero Hour and Land of the Babes.


Aside from the useless tripbomb, I never had a balance issue in Duke (or Doom, or SW). Pistol is great against turrets, especially if you use autoaim (this is how the game should be played, or at least should have been during its first decade), Shrinker makes Commanders useless, Devastator is perfect against bosses and Octabrains, Freezer is great against the hated Newbeasts. Actually, Expander is great against Eggs and clustered Liztroops, Pipebombs have various functions etc etc. Even the Incinerator is great (and sometimes even overpowered) against Enforcers and Pigcops.

This is the rock-paper-scissor type of play, which dominated many genres (like Red Alert type RTS games) in the 90s. This is one of the reasons that oldschool FPS were better. No such bullshit, like the 2 weapon system.

This post has been edited by Nancsi: 13 May 2017 - 04:36 PM

5

User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Duke4 Thot Patrol
  • 3,853

#69

George Broussard is the only person in the industry who understands the character and expectations from the series. While DNF may have never been finished under his direction, he also never would have shipped Guido Nukem.
1

User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#70

View PostNancsi, on 13 May 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

Aside from the useless tripbomb, I never had a balance issue in Duke (or Doom, or SW). Pistol is great against turrets, especially if you use autoaim (this is how the game should be played, or at least should have been during its first decade), Shrinker makes Commanders useless, Devastator is perfect against bosses and Octabrains, Freezer is great against the hated Newbeasts. Actually, Expander is great against Eggs and clustered Liztroops, Pipebombs have various functions etc etc. Even the Incinerator is great (and sometimes even overpowered) against Enforcers and Pigcops.

This is the rock-paper-scissor type of play, which dominated many genres (like Red Alert type RTS games) in the 90s. This is one of the reasons that oldschool FPS were better. No such bullshit, like the 2 weapon system.


You're right for the most part, but the problem was that Shrinker was good against everything short of a boss (and even Battlelord Sentry can be shrunk if you land the shot right) and had too much ammo available for it. 3DR realized that and made Newbeast immune to Shrinker but vulnerable to Freezer.

With the advent of military shooters, all those little advantages were lost since all you were doing was filling enemies with bullets anyway, though you can still get a taste of RPS in games like the newer Wolfensteins, albeit simplified. 2013 Shadow Warrior was worse since katana is almost always the better choice than guns except for green kamikaze blobs.

This post has been edited by Duke of Hazzard: 13 May 2017 - 10:51 PM

0

User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador
  • 5,038

  #71

View PostJimmy, on 13 May 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

George Broussard is the only person in the industry who understands the character and expectations from the series. While DNF may have never been finished under his direction, he also never would have shipped Guido Nukem.

That's not entirely true... I'm technically in the industry now. ;)

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4

User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 232

#72

View PostDuke of Hazzard, on 13 May 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

You're right for the most part, but the problem was that Shrinker was good against everything short of a boss (and even Battlelord Sentry can be shrunk if you land the shot right) and had too much ammo available for it. 3DR realized that and made Newbeast immune to Shrinker but vulnerable to Freezer.

With the advent of military shooters, all those little advantages were lost since all you were doing was filling enemies with bullets anyway, though you can still get a taste of RPS in games like the newer Wolfensteins, albeit simplified. 2013 Shadow Warrior was worse since katana is almost always the better choice than guns except for green kamikaze blobs.


Most enemies are immune to Shrinkers. Bosses, Tanks, Newbeasts, Drones, Turrets, Reconcars. Battlelord can be shrunk, but it needs a precise shooting, and you rarely have time for that during battle. Shrinker is pointless against weak enemies, and terrible against clustered enemies, like eggs or Troopers. I also don't like using it against Pigcops and Enforcers, because they don't drop ammo then, and the hitscan weapons are much better use for them anyway. It's good against the Octabrain, but why not Devastator instead?

For me, the Shrinker is the anti-Commander weapon, just like the Freezer is the anti-Newbeast weapon. It can be useful here and there, but this is the primary, and most probably the intentional function of them.

This post has been edited by Nancsi: 13 May 2017 - 11:33 PM

2

User is offline   Duke of Hazzard 

  • 165

#73

View PostNancsi, on 13 May 2017 - 11:32 PM, said:

Most enemies are immune to Shrinkers. Bosses, Tanks, Newbeasts, Drones, Turrets, Reconcars. Battlelord can be shrunk, but it needs a precise shooting, and you rarely have time for that during battle. Shrinker is pointless against weak enemies, and terrible against clustered enemies, like eggs or Troopers. I also don't like using it against Pigcops and Enforcers, because they don't drop ammo then, and the hitscan weapons are much better use for them anyway. It's good against the Octabrain, but why not Devastator instead?

For me, the Shrinker is the anti-Commander weapon, just like the Freezer is the anti-Newbeast weapon. It can be useful here and there, but this is the primary, and most probably the intentional function of them.


Good points. I have to agree. :)
0

User is offline   Jenz/Amaka 

  • 157

#74

Wow, Randy in here? I hope he's real. :blink:

"I don't want to live in a world where Duke doesn?t exist." +1
First of all, I wanna thank you for releasing DNF. There are just too many games that don't get released and I think DNF was close to being gone for good. Sure it was critically panned and etc. I'm just glad it's here.

I hope the skype/google hangout works out and learn something. Lots of people are not happy with Gearbox's Duke(including me), but I hope the community here can give some ideas and suggestions how to proceed with Duke.

Also, release them old Duke builds! Nothing should be hidden away in some closet.

Working on Direct System TC for Eduke32 [Thread] - [MODB]
I have dyslexia.

This post has been edited by Jenz/Amaka: 14 May 2017 - 05:24 AM

0

User is offline   The Albino Ape 

  • 106

#75

Good to see you here, Randy!

One thing that's been on my mind is how a new Duke would come about, would you guys develop it, or would it be outsourced to another studio?

And of course, the DNF betas? ;)

Anyhow I'm glad that you are reaching out to us, it means a lot!
0

User is offline   Frederik Schreiber 

  • Slipgate Studios
  • 1,116

#76

Welcome Randy! ;)
1

User is offline   icecoldduke 

  • 1,206

#77

Welcome to the forums Randy :).

View PostJenz/Amaka, on 14 May 2017 - 05:24 AM, said:

Also, release them old Duke builds! Nothing should be hidden away in some closet.

I hope you guys don't nag him over the duke betas. Randy can offer a lot more to this community then a bunch of old duke3d builds, it would be a shame if he got annoyed and stopped coming on here because you guys kept nagging him.

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This post has been edited by icecoldduke: 15 May 2017 - 07:45 AM

3

User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,544

#78

View Posticecoldduke, on 15 May 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

I hope you guys don't nag him over the duke betas. Randy can offer a lot more to this community then a bunch of old duke3d builds, it would be a shame if he got annoyed and stopped coming on here because you guys kept nagging him.

duke4 is a harsh place sometimes, if a bit of nagging stops one from interacting, or even 'offering' goodies to the community at large, then this place may not be for you.

The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: 15 May 2017 - 08:21 AM

2

User is online   Spiker 

  • 257

#79

View Posticecoldduke, on 15 May 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

I hope you guys don't nag him over the duke betas.

Can we nag you instead?




Looks like those alien bastards drank all my beer.
5

User is offline   Player Lin 

  • 190

#80

You know, I personally still want to nag, because...

View PostPlayer Lin, on 14 May 2017 - 12:33 AM, said:

And I see Alpha/Beta/dev. things are bonuses, if they want to release then I'm happy but if they don't then whatever. However yes, it still bitter due this thing was became unsure when whole Duke IP transferred to Gearbox. :(


But I know it's just so stupid and silly since now Randy try to be kindly and coming here, and TBH, that feels of bitter is not that easy to put out from my mind. :P

I'm the guy at 3DRealms Forum...

http://forums.3dreal...mber.php?u=3816

Sometimes, I act like a stupid asshole. I know, and I'm sorry about that. :(

This post has been edited by Player Lin: 15 May 2017 - 08:33 AM

1

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,270

#81

All that old stuff would be pretty nice to have, and maybe it can be released as bonus content or DLCs to WT if there's a reasonable market for it.

I think it's more important that any future Duke make the memes, not become one.
9

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,490

#82

View PostForge, on 15 May 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

I think it's more important that any future Duke make the memes, not become one.


This may be the most profound Duke-related quote in years.

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2

User is offline   Mark. 

  • Honored Donor
  • 2,022

#83

The ONLY thing I'm interested in is seeing the old DNF versions. I wouldn't even need to actually play them. Watching a detailed walkthrough of them would satisfy me.

This post has been edited by Mark.: 15 May 2017 - 09:28 AM

1

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,270

#84

View PostMark., on 15 May 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

The ONLY thing I'm interested in is seeing the old DNF versions. I wouldn't even need to actually play them. Watching a detailed walkthrough of them would satisfy me.

Cool start point, bro. I would thoroughly enjoy that as well.
Now what would gearbox get in return?
How many people outside our little community would be interested in that?
How do you plan on marketing it?

This post has been edited by Forge: 15 May 2017 - 09:40 AM

2

User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador
  • 5,038

  #85

Don't ask Randy about Duke Nukem 3D betas, he doesn't have them.

Edit: I will post more Duke beta stuff when the game we're working on is much closer to completion.

EDuke32 wiki svn builds bugs
Join us in #eduke32 on irc.freenode.net!
11

User is offline   Mark. 

  • Honored Donor
  • 2,022

#86

Forge: My interest is only a mild curisoity of what those games were. I care nothing about if they were released or not. I am speaking strictly for myself. How much would it cost the company to have someone record a Youtube video?

This post has been edited by Mark.: 15 May 2017 - 09:43 AM

0

User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 232

#87

View PostTerminX, on 15 May 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Don't ask Randy about Duke Nukem 3D betas, he doesn't have them.

Edit: I will post more Duke beta stuff when the game we're working on is much closer to completion.


Do you have some shots of Levelord's Shop-N-Bag and XXX-Stacy levels? Or prototype Critical Mass and It's Impossible levels?
0

User is offline   LkMax 

  • 312

#88

I don't get the obsession over the betas (lameduke was good enough to me).

All I want to know is about the future of the franchise.
Doom managed to make a good return without being another Call of Duty / Halo clone, I believe Duke can do it too.

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3

User is offline   Yatta 

  • Pizza Lawyer
  • 225

  #89

View PostMark., on 15 May 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

The ONLY thing I'm interested in is seeing the old DNF versions. I wouldn't even need to actually play them. Watching a detailed walkthrough of them would satisfy me.



Funny you mention that. Our admin Green drafted this and we were contemplating sending it to Randy:


Randy -


I would like to propose a series of historical articles and coverage on Duke4.net in association with Gearbox Software due to intense community interest in the subject of the various iterations of Duke Nukem Forever, Duke Nukem 3D, and other titles in the Duke Nukem franchise.


While it may not be possible to release content to the public due to various reasons such as propriety code and content that is not authorized for redistribution included in this content it would be great community interest if there were an avenue of coverage to demonstrate in great detail variations, evolution, and changes between early versions of Duke Nukem Forever and Duke Nukem 3D compared to the final product.


I propose that under an NDA prohibiting redistribution that would apply to content that is unable to be redistributed for various reasons between a handful of core staff directly associated with Duke4.net including Richard "TerminX" G, Evan "Hendricks266" R, and Robert "Yatta" R access be given to various materials of historical significance in order to produce a series of articles and coverage for the Duke Nukem community to fulfill long time requests from a large portion of users to see coverage of these materials.


While ideally this content would be packaged up for unsupported releases to the community in a similar fashion to the "LameDuke" Duke Nukem 3D alpha it is understandable why some of this content may be unable to be released to the public.
It is worth mentioning that these articles could be done in association with former 3D Realms staff members as Duke4.net has in the past interviewed several ex-3D Realms developers and Charlie Wiederhold who was attached to the project for a period of several years has a relationship with Robert R.


I believe that an undertaking such as this would serve well to increase mutual respect between the community and Gearbox Software and potential releases of content alongside historical coverage would be significant from an archival and historical viewpoint as well as fulfilling 3D Realms initial attempt at historical coverage that unfortunately never materialised.

I love Duke4.net. It's one of my life's proudest accomplishments. I'm proud of the community we have built here and the beautiful work that comes out of it every day. I'm proud of the friends I've made here and the kind people who made all of this possible with their hard work, donations, and participation. Thank you.
14

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,270

#90

Nice proposal.
Amend it to remove Hendricks though.
He's so busy, and has such little time as it is, that he hasn't even delivered on the SW beta material yet. Adding more to his already over-full plate would tax him both physically and mentally. It would be quite unhealthy.
Trooper Dan G is a pretty meticulous and hard worker - if he has the free time.

This post has been edited by Forge: 15 May 2017 - 06:56 PM

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