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Duke Nukem's Bulletstorm Tour  "Randy hinted at something for December 1st"

User is offline   xMobilemux 

#391

The lines aren't so bad but the lip sync is beyond awful and the fact that Grayson's pain sounds are still in there is just pathetic and lazy.

Also Duke's jump sound in DNF always reminded me of Quake 2's jump sound.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#392

View PostHulkNukem, on 27 February 2017 - 03:40 PM, said:

It was either Micky or Lunick within maybe a year or two after it released that mentioned how the jump sound in DNF was the exact same sound everytime and I have not been able to unhear it ever since.



That sounds like something I'd say, but I don't specifically remember saying it.

So is this the final version or is the lip syncing something they're going to do later? If they're going to charge full price as with a new game for this thing, the least they could do is make it so the lip syncing is consistent with the last ~15 years of industry standard.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 27 February 2017 - 05:03 PM

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User is offline   HiPolyBash 

#393

I'm surprised no one else is acknowledging how bad the lines are. They sound worse than World Tours..

Top comments on the Reddit thread for the gameplay:

Posted Image
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User is offline   spessu_sb 

#394

View PostHulkNukem, on 27 February 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Also, I didn't hear Grayson's pain sounds, I heard Duke's?


Check the timed link I linked. Atleast on that spot you can clearly hear someone totally else than JSJ's voice.
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#395

View Postspessu_sb, on 27 February 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

Check the timed link I linked. Atleast on that spot you can clearly hear someone totally else than JSJ's voice.


Okay that one is clear as day hahahaha.
Most likely an oversight that will get fixed, but that's hilarious.
Steve Blum is such a good voice actor/unique identifiable voice I almost dislike the idea of replacing it with Duke's. Would've loved to have them interact with eachother and new banter made between Duke and General Sarrano. Fuck, thinking about Bulletstorm again makes me really want to play Bulletstorm again.
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User is offline   HiPolyBash 

#396

It's a rush job plain and simple. I said before they should have done some sort of cross-over DLC but that would have taken at least a little bit of effort, a model swap and a voice actor sounding like he's bored to death is the definition of zero effort. Thanks Randy. We love your passion for Duke..keep fighting the good fight.

I'm sure everyone remembers before the release of Duke Nukem Forever the interviews with Randy claiming the franchise is dear and special to him, how he saved the game, and so on...all of which has been disproven now and he's changed his tone from 'We finished the game! We saved Duke!' to 'This is basically what 3D Realms gave us, we just put it out the door.' which to anyone who followed the development of Colonial Marines is exactly what he did with that title too. A major shift from 'Aliens is special to me. It's a dream to work on it! We're putting in all our effort and passion!' to post-release 'We didn't really do the campaign, it isn't our fault. It's awesome anyway though everyone who criticizes it is wrong and a troll!!!'

I'll probably still pick up Bulletstorm Full Clip Edition when it's on sale because I enjoyed it the first time around but that'd simply be in support of People Can Fly. Gearbox has done nothing to deserve my money but I enjoyed Bulletstorm so I'm mildly conflicted there..People Can Fly should have worked with Devolver or someone slightly more respectable..
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User is offline   X-Vector 

#397

"Bro".

Just keep on kicking Duke when he's down, right?
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#398

Jump sounds are unnecessary. Since we can't jump in Bulletstorm, no worries there. This looks like a fun Duke adventure.
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User is offline   Richard Shead 

  • "Dick Nasty"

#399

C'mon guys...the lip syncing wasn't that bad.

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#400

Watching that made me legitimately sad.
I don't know what I expected, but it sure wasn't something as low-effort as that.

EDIT: lol, go to 9:12, that part isn't even dubbed into Duke's voice

This post has been edited by TheZombieKiller: 28 February 2017 - 04:35 AM

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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#401

Well, yeah, if you classify "none whatsoever" as "not that bad."

This is a fucking travesty. As usual. *shrugs*
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#402

It's like the game has frame rate issues which results in slow motion. I'm getting strong MK9 (PC version) vibe, feel nostalgic for my old shitty Celeron. Also, it's a shame that Duke feels like out of place.
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User is offline   Player Lin 

#403

I think JSJ voice is still fine on its own but I guess Shovelware didn't want him to make his voice to fit the game world at all, just make his one-liner sounds like out of place...and the lip sync just...I don't know what to say about that...

TBH, I'm interest on this game and I can get a copy of Bulletstorm: FCE with just about 28.8 USD(882 TWD, as pre-order price) if I want but I don't know why I should supporting such of...laziness, even just for sake of Duke.

:P

This post has been edited by Player Lin: 28 February 2017 - 08:29 AM

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#404

I know that this video Im showing is fanbase but man it is awesome it alot better then that bulletstorm clip with duke in it

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#405

View PostRichard Shead, on 28 February 2017 - 04:15 AM, said:

C'mon guys...the lip syncing wasn't that bad.


Yes. Yes, it really is that bad. They put zero effort into lip-syncing Duke's lines to his facial talking animations. Zero as in no work whatsoever. They didn't even try.

I want to be excited about this but they're making it very hard. I hope playing this game with a full weapon wheel and Duke's lines will make it fun enough. Those cutscenes are going to be atrocious.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 28 February 2017 - 12:09 PM

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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#406

Thinking about it, the full weapon wheel might be a new game plus exclusive; in the gameplay, you don't normally have those weapons at that point, which makes me think its NG+ only

This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 28 February 2017 - 01:12 PM

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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #407

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 28 February 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

Yes. Yes, it really is that bad. They put zero effort into lip-syncing Duke's lines to his facial talking animations. Zero as in no work whatsoever. They didn't even try.

My understanding of how game character lip syncing works is that it's generally automated and based on the audio itself. I'm going to hold out hope that this issue is some kind of a bug wherein the system that handles the lip syncing simply isn't aware of multiple sets of audio existing for the player character, in whatever build the video was recorded from.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#408

To be fair, They would have to get all the actors who recorded the lines in the original, and get them to say 'Duke' in 20 or 30 ways and hope they can edit it all together. That or get all the voices re-recorded.

On the flip of that, if they rig Duke's character to the skeleton of the original character, they may get all the lip syncing for free - depending on how the character animation works in their engine.
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User is offline   Mark 

#409

I avoided watching Duke's face as he talked so I could judge the voice on its quality alone and not be distracted by the lack of lip sync. For the most part I thought the voice acting was fine. I never bought DNF so I'm not sure how much talking he did in that. It took a little getting used to with Duke having an actual conversation and not just spitting out classic one liners. There were a couple of lines that I thought didn't fit well but I give it a good overall score.
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User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#410

I'll just play it with Grayson. The addition of the weapon wheel is nice though. Not having to deal with GFWL and resurrected multiplayer is worth the price of admission for me in particular.

As for the Duke stuff, I just see this as another source for dialogue in Duke mods. "This thing is judging me!" has some potential for something silly I have in my mind.

This post has been edited by Striker: 28 February 2017 - 06:16 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#411

View PostTerminX, on 28 February 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

My understanding of how game character lip syncing works is that it's generally automated and based on the audio itself. I'm going to hold out hope that this issue is some kind of a bug wherein the system that handles the lip syncing simply isn't aware of multiple sets of audio existing for the player character, in whatever build the video was recorded from.


I hope so. Even so, they allowed this footage to be released for public consumption in this state...still lazy. Even so-er, HL2 didn't animate facial animations this way. It seems strange to me for developers to fall back to automated animations years after HL2 was capturing actor's actual dialogue lip movement and facial expressions. Still, what do I know...
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#412

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 28 February 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

HL2 was capturing actor's actual dialogue lip movement and facial expressions.

Half-Life 2 didn't use any motion capture data for lip syncing or facial expressions. Lip sync was generated by inputting the lines in text form which produces mouth movement using pre-defined phonemes (for example, the alien Vortigaunt characters have unique phonemes distinct from humans). Facial expressions were animated manually, but the engine has an expression system which allows the animator to control the individual facial flex controllers. This is all part of the choreography system. The advantage here is that everything is modular and done in real time in-engine, so you can easily swap lines, animations, actors, and so on in scenes. This is how localization on Source engine games can be accomplished so easily since all the localizers need to implement are the recorded lines with the embedded lip sync data. This new dialog simply blends in with all of the other existing choreographed assets on the fly.

In the aforementioned Bulletstorm clip, it looks like the mouth movements are baked into the full body cutscene animations. Out of curiosity, I checked some footage of Bulletstorm's other localizations: Spanish, German, and French. These all look like they're still using the English lip sync animations, so if they hadn't created new lip syncing for the additional language localizations, I wouldn't imagine they'd go out of their way to do it now just for Duke's new lines.

And for reference, here's the original English cutscene with Grayson.

This post has been edited by Marphy Black: 28 February 2017 - 10:02 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#413

I'll concede to greater minds then. I could have sworn Raising The Bar and some of the behind the scenes stuff I read/watched/saw shows the dots on faces thing going on. I guess I'm wrong.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#414

The cutscenes are in-engine I'm assuming. A lot of this depends on how the guy screencapping this had his settings at. Having said that, it doesn't look like it's remasterd. What it looks like is that they've just upped the brightness and managed to blow out all their specular/normal detail. Hopefully this is a local setting and not a general thing between the versions.

Oh, and nobody fixed the clipping issues with the soldiers armour and his bicep. :P

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 28 February 2017 - 11:20 PM

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#415

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 28 February 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

I could have sworn Raising The Bar and some of the behind the scenes stuff I read/watched/saw shows the dots on faces thing going on.

They drew grid lines on this guy's face:
Posted Image

However, that was for the purpose of modeling the reference actor's appearance. Their facial animation system was based on this face technology demo and psychology studies from the 70s which laid out rules for the creation of expressions.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#416

The way it normally works is that you create different face shapes for the mouth as it's saying different word sounds (phonemes).

Posted Image

Once you have a library of them, then it's just a case of applying them at the right places on the animation timeline so that they match what the character is saying in the soundtrack. If it's like most other animation systems - If the original character was set up correctly, all they should have to do is rig Duke to the character's skeleton and face rig/shapes and he should just completely ape the original.

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 01 March 2017 - 12:57 AM

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User is offline   Richard Shead 

  • "Dick Nasty"

#417

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 28 February 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

Yes. Yes, it really is that bad. They put zero effort into lip-syncing Duke's lines to his facial talking animations. Zero as in no work whatsoever. They didn't even try.

I want to be excited about this but they're making it very hard. I hope playing this game with a full weapon wheel and Duke's lines will make it fun enough. Those cutscenes are going to be atrocious.


Missed the sarcasm and reference, did we?

This post has been edited by Richard Shead: 01 March 2017 - 02:31 AM

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#418

View PostTea Monster, on 28 February 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

To be fair, They would have to get all the actors who recorded the lines in the original, and get them to say 'Duke' in 20 or 30 ways and hope they can edit it all together. That or get all the voices re-recorded.

Well, and the current price would be more justifiable too if they did it, that would be fair if they put at least some effort into it. This remaster doesn't feel like proper remaster at all. On top of that they don't offer free version to the owners of old Steam version, something what 2K and Bethesda did recently with their Bioshock and Skyrim. I bet Bulletshtorm doesn't even use servers for online play. They could at least offer bigger discount for the owners, that's how Metro developers handled their remasters IRC.

I'd definitely pre-order the game if Duke Nukem presence made some sense, it could be pretty good crossover game with Duke.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#419

View PostRichard Shead, on 01 March 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

Missed the sarcasm and reference, did we?


Ah yes I did.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 01 March 2017 - 05:24 AM

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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#420

I caught the sarcasm, but I've not seen SNL since the early 80's so I didn't get the reference. I gave you an upvote.
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