After a few days of R&R, Duke Nukem returned to his work for EDF.
Now he's a Detective Nukem and his job is to look after the Little Bigville,
the little snow town on the edge of nowhere....
Here's my brand new map, called "Winterfall". Made with classic mode in mind.
I started my work on this map just a month ago, and due to having tons of free time on my hands, I managed to finish it by now! This is probably the quickiest map I've ever done, but at the same time, this is my biggest - bigger than DoomBOX actually, but in fact the gameplay area is smaller. I included the theme from "The Thing" as the soundtrack, hope it fits.
Special thanks to Merlijn, James Stanfield and Zykov Eddy for the beta-testing. You're the best, guys!
Captain Massive, on 06 October 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:
When you want to play new release and then you find out It's Not Polymer.
Joking I'll give it a go.
Eh, polymer runs like crap on even my rig, and mine is the best money can buy. I prefer butter smooth framerates at 60-120 consistently over anything else. Maybe the new world tour engine will offer both.
I tried to play this map three times and it crashed every time; furthermore, it crashed in such a way that whatever crash handler eduke uses didn't work (so Windows had to close it) and it produced no useful messages in the log - just the usual in-game messages (things like "MIGHTY FOOT ENGAGED" and such), and then nothing.
The first two times (using Polymost), I got no further than the area in front of the "D-LUXE MOTEL" sign. (The game crashed after I killed some enemies there.)
For the third time, I switched from Polymost to classic, and got a bit further - I cleared out(?) the area by the "D-LUXE MOTEL" sign, and went around the other side of the building to the flickering cave area, but when I got about as far as the area with the frozen fountain and the freezethrower ammo inside the low fence, the game crashed again.
(edit: All of this was with r3888, but I think that's irrelevant.)
By the way, Mapster says the map is corrupted (although it doesn't look like that has anything to do with the crashes I've been experiencing). What tool did you use to make the map?
This post has been edited by ToiletDuck64: 07 October 2016 - 02:13 AM
ToiletDuck64, on 07 October 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:
By the way, Mapster says the map is corrupted (although it doesn't look like that has anything to do with the crashes I've been experiencing). What tool did you use to make the map?
Nothing but Mapster. Me and my testers had no trouble playing the map.
This post has been edited by Sanek: 07 October 2016 - 05:32 AM
I wasn't getting any crashes initially, until I realised I was using r5771 (the sprite drawing order mess-up alerted me), so I switched to r5265 and it crashed pretty quickly. Nothing unusual in the log file. Mapster (r5265) does however say the map is corrupt. I reverted back to r5771 and had absolutely no crashes.
Anyhow, to the map; the sheer size of the map is I think it's downfall. Lots of walking about with nothing to kill.
When I got to the bit where ...
Spoiler
... you need a certain weapon to progress further, and convinced I'd been everywhere and pushed everything, that's when I cheated and broke out mapster to see if those five shooting targets might be involved in the solution which of course they weren't, but I did then notice an area that I hadn't considered and behold there was the weapon.
Spoiler
The boat ride also needs a bit of a rethink I feel. It's just that it takes SO long to get where you need to go. In the original game, where there are long slow boat rides there is also some things to keep Duke's arsenal occupied during the voyage. Alternatively, a switch-operated speedboat from shore to ship ?
However, I loved the ending - right up my street!
The ammo level also seemed just right - ran low in places but never ran out, nicely balanced.
Having tested the map, I can say it's a lot better than Doombox and Lorch 3. Will add more detailled comments when I've played the released version.
Didn't experience any crashes while testing, only some graphical glitches due to the size of the map.
BTW I thought the detour to get the shrinker was really cool, one of my favorite parts of the map.
It also took me a while to find it, but it never got to the point of being unfair or frustrating (at least not to me).
I think this is a lot better than DoomBox, and Sanek's best map since Bridge between two islands. DoomBox was mostly empty and had a questionable gameplay mechanic (jetpack), and I didn't like it, but Winterfall is a different story. It's full of action, secrets, and cool looking winter areas. Very good map!
Spent a short time hunting down the corruption in the map, it was due to sectors being made around other sectors as usual. (Which is very easy to spot as outside of polymer mode, you'll see the edges of sectors vanish behind each other.) Wish build didn't throw a tantrum when that happens. I've had to undo large chunks off a level before because I didn't plan out the area perfectly beforehand.
This post has been edited by Valhalla: 07 October 2016 - 08:18 PM
Just gonna say it was an immersive ride with a very convincing snowy-town environment. Like someone has mentioned, the size of the level kinda played a downside to it (tho it didn't really bother me that much) but the action-packed battles overshadowed it IMO (especially the battle for the shrinker). Definitely one of your best maps. Btw, the overall "cold" color scheme and the starting location reminded me of "Cold in November" in a way (for obvious reasons). Liked it a lot, took me 43 mins (because of the stinkin' shrinker), found every secret.
P.S.: I didn't find the shrinker myself, instead using the spoiler in the post by The Mechanic. So, that "Please Wait" sign actually was put there for a purpose, not simply to add to the environment. A clever move! (hopefully I didn't spoil the shit to anyone by pointing that out)
This post has been edited by Polunka: 08 October 2016 - 03:13 AM
That's been used many times on this forum. It's been a running joke for some years now. Hell the only reason it's a gif is because everyone on the entire internet uses it for that purpose
That's been used many times on this forum. It's been a running joke for some years now. Hell the only reason it's a gif is because everyone on the entire internet uses it for that purpose
No, I didn't mean the gif itself. The point was the way Sanek replied to Captain Massive's Moontang release thread (see the mentioned thread to get it right).
This post has been edited by Polunka: 08 October 2016 - 05:43 AM
I remember CK mentioning in the thread for DoomBox that a thing he'd noticed with your maps was that it didn't seem like there was anything that really set them apart, IIRC it was something to the effect of "it doesn't feel like there's a Sanek style". I kinda agreed with that, but after playing through this, DoomBox and Lorch 3, I think I've pinpointed a "Sanek style". Each map has a larger than average board size that generally involves a lot of trekking to progress through, with a mostly linear and straightforward progression format (key-cards/button hunts) but a less conventional progression means (sustained jetpack use, long winded sector transports, etc.) I feel like that's a style you can mostly call your own and while I wouldn't say it's worked against you, the finished product tends to lack the TLC and detail needed it for it to work for you.
Spoiler
There's been a pretty clear improvement for each map you've released. I'm in agreement with Eddy when he says that this is better than DoomBox and probably your best map yet, but I also feel like the shortcomings that have been in your other maps are still there, though appreciably less and distributed a bit differently. For Winterfall, it feels like the level of detail and shading for individual areas vary depending on how important the area is, or where that area sits in the level's progression. The motel room the player starts in is detailed and shaded quite nicely, the warehouse and apartment building that you access towards the end of the map hold that same level of quality and flow well, but the post office, the ship and most of the areas that constitute the middle of the map's progression devolve and noticeably lack the finesse that those other areas have. Like, the post office is just a big, mostly empty room with counters at either end and a few corridors. The ship is just a big sector in the water with a giant square hole in it and a few crates sitting around.
To paraphrase, the map started strong and ended stronger, but it waned significantly in the middle. Thankfully the well built areas that ostensibly got more time and attention outweigh the sub-par areas; I had a lot of fun jumping around the tops of the crates in the warehouse and picking off the enemies that were on the ground floor, the ambushes were less frustrating than they were in DoomBox and generally did a good job of keeping me engaged and on my toes and on the whole I enjoyed myself. I generally don't like rating things, so if I had to give this a letter grade, it'd probably be a flat B. There was clearly enough effort and thought put into it to deserve at least that, but not enough originality for an A and not quite enough polish for a B+.
Whether it's good for you or not, I think if you keep hacking at it, you'll eventually get the level of recognition and praise that you want. Every new map you make is arguably better than the last and seems to be accomplished in shorter and shorter time tables. Though the same faults are always present, they diminish with each release, so you're obviously taking the constructive criticism you've gotten up to this point to heart. Just keep messing around and experimenting. Maybe once you're done designing a map (or a part of it) devote some extra time to sprucing it up (a decorative sprite here and an extra sector at a blending shade value there can make all the difference). Don't have too much more to say, but I hope you got something out of this.
Thanks for your reviews and everything, but please stop writing all this bullshit about "your new map will be even better than this one". I don't know if I ever release a new map again because my life is so uncertain right now.
CruX, on 08 October 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:
I feel like that's a style you can mostly call your own and while I wouldn't say it's worked against you, the finished product tends to lack the TLC and detail needed it for it to work for you.
I don't understand it. I feel that my maps naturally gets bigger each time, but the only way this affects me is a 50/50 chance of releasing it et all.
CruX, on 08 October 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:
Just keep messing around and experimenting. Maybe once you're done designing a map (or a part of it) devote some extra time to sprucing it up (a decorative sprite here and an extra sector at a blending shade value there can make all the difference).
I actually worked on the same areas long after I finished work on them, but I prefer to make areas more open and less cramped, so the player can have more space to move around. You don't like post office, and that's all right; while I feel that this will be as good as it is, instead of placing as much sprites as possible and making it look like a big cramped garbage or smth.
Cool map, lots of really impressive work putting together this huge yet fun to navigate snowy city. And the combat so far has been fun, at the moment I'm stuck, got up to the post office which I unlocked. From the spoilered talk in here I gather what I'm supposed to be doing, but not sure how I get from the post office to there. I have a jetpack but feels like I've looked everywhere. But either way, congrats on getting another map done, fun stuff.
screenshot looks neat and judging from the feedback I'm sure I would love this map. can't play it right now (just like I haven't been able to play any map released in the past year or so, when there's been plenty of neat releases... shame !), but it's near the top of my list.
Sanek, on 09 October 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:
Thanks for your reviews and everything, but please stop writing all this bullshit about "your new map will be even better than this one". I don't know if I ever release a new map again because my life is so uncertain right now.
I don't understand it. I feel that my maps naturally gets bigger each time, but the only way this affects me is a 50/50 chance of releasing it et all.
I actually worked on the same areas long after I finished work on them, but I prefer to make areas more open and less cramped, so the player can have more space to move around. You don't like post office, and that's all right; while I feel that this will be as good as it is, instead of placing as much sprites as possible and making it look like a big cramped garbage or smth.
I know it's the language barrier making you sound more aggressive than you really want to, but the guy really just went a long way to try and give out advice. he didn't say your map sucked, in fact he saw something in your mapping and tried to drop hints on how you could possibly enhance those traits. you're focusing on the negatives way too much - people aren't out to get you. I don't know what's so 'uncertain' in your life right now (you can't expect strangers to know either), but whatever it is, best of luck with it and I hope you keep making maps.
This post has been edited by ck3D: 10 October 2016 - 12:58 AM
By the way...I think that some of the technical issues with this map (crashes, graphical glitching) might be caused by individual sectors that span long distances. I tried using the latest build with this map, and it didn't crash, but still had the graphical glitching; in the past, going all the way back to DOS Duke v1.3d, I've encountered issues with single sectors of such sizes, even if they were otherwise put together properly.
So, basically, splitting up all the excessively large sectors (in the areas where that's possible) might help fix some of the problems.
This post has been edited by ToiletDuck64: 10 October 2016 - 12:56 PM
I know it's the language barrier making you sound more aggressive than you really want to, but the guy really just went a long way to try and give out advice. he didn't say your map sucked, in fact he saw something in your mapping and tried to drop hints on how you could possibly enhance those traits. you're focusing on the negatives way too much - people aren't out to get you. I don't know what's so 'uncertain' in your life right now (you can't expect strangers to know either), but whatever it is, best of luck with it and I hope you keep making maps.
Well, I can't say that all of it is true (since I know english a lot better than 8 years ago), but yea, I try to look at this from another point of view. There's no any aggresive attitude by now.
And yes, speaking of the map, I also think that I'm really, I mean REALLY GOOD at my release dates.
This post has been edited by Sanek: 13 October 2016 - 05:15 PM
For those of you who will play the map.
Since there's so much people who can't find the shrinker and the other things, I decided to record a demo which shows how to play the map:
It took me a really long time to play through this map but I managed to find everything on my own before reading through this thread. I was pretty relieved when I found the shrinker. I just wish that
Spoiler
you had more boats going towards the ship. I spent a lot of time waiting for a boat to show up and a ton of time waiting again for the boat ride back to the mainland.
Big maps can be a bit daunting but this one wasn't too complicated or overwhelming. There was some pretty good detail in certain areas. I think that there was a really good balance of ammo, weapon, and health drops. I really liked that aspect since that's usually a huge problem on other user maps. Given the enormity of the map, it probably could've used more enemies. My only complaint is that sometimes assault troopers and captains would spawn and take pot shots at me from across the map. The assault captains kept phasing out so that it was really hard to hunt them down even after pinpointing the location of their gunfire.
Other than that, it was a fun map in spite of how long it took me. The final fight was pretty good.
Help
Duke4.net
DNF #1
Duke 3D #1
Winterfall.rar (4.58MB)
