[PsychoGoatee]

Figured we could use one of those "What have you been playing?" topics, to post about random Duke maps and TCs you've been playing lately. Or you could also just use this as an excuse to post about a map you'd like to talk about, even if you didn't just play it. More Duke map posting action, baby.

I just played Tardis, and old map from '98 I've seen mentioned in a few posts. Fun stuff, had the ol blue box from Doctor Who, and a bunch of weird hallways etc but it pulled it off, had charm to it. And I beat it without getting confused.

[PsychoGoatee]

Just played Jailbird2, very cool map! It had been recommended before. It's in NightFright's awesome Addon Compilation in the Urban Map Pack. Just great design, great gameplay flow, nice gameplay (enough health etc), a smooth ride of a map.

[MetHy]

Jailbird2 was one of my favourite maps for a long time.

Was the first video I recorded and put on youtube, more than 8 years ago. The sound gets more and more off sync as the video goes, it's terrible.

[PsychoGoatee]

Played Roch 1 through Roch 3 today, great maps! Very fun, lots of neato touches, nice smooth gameplay, intuitive very nicely done progression, loved playing these. From 99 and 2000 and they're some of the best maps out there, looks like everybody was right. I look forward to playing the rest of those too.

[Merlijn]

The Roch series remain some of my favorite maps in Duke, I ought to replay them soonish.
My favorites are: roch 2 (those bumper cars!), roch 4 and roch 7.

[PsychoGoatee]

Just played the first map of Vermin Clearance, really good stuff. Has some retro quirks and some cryptic progression (hump a wall or two), but I never got lost so I think the level was speaking to me telepathically. Just couldn't put it down, fun map that keeps throwing unexepected twists in there, it's like two maps packed in one. 54 minutes, 230 aliens killed (30 left), 7 secrets found (missed one), I'd recommend giving this map a try, even if you're not in for a whole episode.

I'm still digging Roch too, played 4 and 5, on 6 now.

[NightFright]

I never got far into Vermin Clearance, I gotta admit. Especially later on, weird things are happening like semi-transparent switches attached to wooden crates which open critical doors. Eventually, this prevented me from continuing any further. May give it another shot one of these days because the levels themselves look really nice.

What I can recommend is "Incubation: Alien Apocalypse" (also included in the addon compilation). I really liked how the author realized the "alien spacecraft lands in city" and consequently stayed close to it throughout the episode.

[PsychoGoatee]

I'll check that out, thanks! Recently I enjoyed Roch 6 and Painkiller64.

[Mark]

Its hard to believe its already been almost 9 months since Decay was released. I went back to play a few maps yesterday. Its been so long since I played it that even though I made the maps and placed the monsters I didn't remember where everything was. I had a few jumps when something unexpected popped up. I suppose having some random spawns helped the surprise factor for me. Plus I'm a very jumpy guy with overactive reflexes. I jumped in my chair quite a few times while testing the maps.

[Nems]

I was originally playing through some of the levels that came with the Attrition mod before I decided to take a break from Duke and go back to Doom. I'm primarily a Doom player so I have to remind myself that level progression works differently in Duke3D versus Doom considering the added game play elements (stuff like use of the jetpack or having to get shrunk to progress still throws me off).

I probably should have reported that some of the levels included in Attrition seem to be broken (they either kick me back to the main menu or drop me off at E1L1) or progression is impossible (example: I can't find or access the Yellow key in The Alien City) but I got frustrated and overwhelmed to the point I deleted everything Duke-related for a bit to calm down and play some more Doom before trying good ol' Duke again.

Overkill, I know. :x

[PsychoGoatee]

Attrition includes a great assortment of maps and is cool, but you could also tackle levels one by one as another way to play. And there are a lot of great addons you could try in the Addons compilation too. https://forums.duke4...on-compilation/

A lot of those addons are just sets of levels without changing the gameplay, those are great to check out. Roch, Red, ADG episode, etc. The Urban Map collection might be up your alley, and could always use dnscotty or menu cheats to skip levels you already played via Attrition etc.

[Nems]

I've actually been going through the add-on compilation now that you mention it and let Attrition take a break (if I recall right Trooper Dan is still putting the finishing touches on what will be the latest version). The ADG episode really shines with regards to the kind of game play I like in my Duke/Doom levels (heavy on the action, straight forward, minimal switch hunting/wall humping/maze traversal).

I tried to play the ADG episode with DukePlus but for some reason it won't load up with the add-on compilation. I make sure to turn DukePlus off in the custom game content directory when it comes to TC's but the ADG episode is just level sets so I would have thought loading it up with DukePlus would work out.

Ah well. I guess I'll have to download the ADG episode from the Duke Nukem Repository or Dukeworld separately to get it to work with DukePlus. :v

[Danukem]

Nems, on 18 September 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

I was originally playing through some of the levels that came with the Attrition mod before I decided to take a break from Duke and go back to Doom. I'm primarily a Doom player so I have to remind myself that level progression works differently in Duke3D versus Doom considering the added game play elements (stuff like use of the jetpack or having to get shrunk to progress still throws me off).

I probably should have reported that some of the levels included in Attrition seem to be broken (they either kick me back to the main menu or drop me off at E1L1) or progression is impossible (example: I can't find or access the Yellow key in The Alien City) but I got frustrated and overwhelmed to the point I deleted everything Duke-related for a bit to calm down and play some more Doom before trying good ol' Duke again.

Overkill, I know. :x

There are about 150 different user maps that are distributed with the mod, and while I have tried to exclude ones with highly confusing or frustrating level progression, there are definitely some that can be problematic. The mod itself doesn't do anything to mess with map structures, and every map included was released on its own at some point and completed by multiple players. However, it is possible that some maps have been broken by changes to EDuke32 or even Attrition itself. If you are interested, you can always try playing one of the maps in the vanilla game, and then posting for help if you get stuck.

As for being kicked back to the main menu or E1L1, that would definitely be a bug with the mod. I have been working on an update for the last several weeks and haven't encountered any problems quite like that, although I have certainly fixed some bugs. If you are interested, the latest beta version is available here.

[PsychoGoatee]

Just played this map BestCity, really good! Was trying some maps from the classic dukeworld selection that I didn't see reviews of on MSDN, scent88 (CGS), or the repository. This one stood out, just really fun layout and a good sized city level that gave me that warm fuzzy classic Duke feeling. Being a map from 1996 makes this more impressive too, recommended!

http://dukeworld.duk...world/maps/a-e/

I also played SkyCity, which has been reviewed and recommended before, very cool map.

[Sanek]

PsychoGoatee, on 07 June 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Just played this map BestCity, really good!

I played it after your post. I agree - good map for 1996 with some cool ideas! I didn't find the yellow key though.

[PsychoGoatee]

If you haven't played Cathedral, or rocked through NightFright's add-on compilation's Urban Map Pack which includes it, it's quite a cool map! Really good looking, that view at the beginning is just impressive.

[Merlijn]

Yeah, Cathedral is a great map! I don't think it was ever reviewed on the regular duke sites?

I've also checked BestCity, indeed quite good for a 1996 release. You kinda have to look past the crude texturing, but the layout is pretty cool!
Speaking of oldies - I've replayed Godzilla. Quite fun and well put together map (it's partly based on the 1998 Godzilla movie, so at least something worthwile came out of that film )

[NNC]

Traffic Jam is the last userlevel I played. Well, technically it's only half of a userlevel, since the second half is basically a much improved version of a LameDuke level, which was made by mapping god Allen Blum.

This one still holds up. One of the few levels that with some minor modiciations could have made into a commercial level and not just because of the LD parts. Olivier Boucher had put some impressive and intuitive leveldesign here with good balance of weapons, monsters, no confusing button and key hunt, but at the same time a really good looking parking tower where you feel the reality and the complexity.

If I have to name one non-episodic usermap that everyone should try, this would be the one (not counting Levelord's brilliant Sewer). If episodic levels count, I would pick a level from LRWB (the penultimate levels from both episodes: Alien Detraining and Back to LA would be my choice).

[ck3D]

Is this the last map you played thread I should be reviving? I have fond memories of another one, but that was so long ago it might even have been on DN-R (ouch!)

X3 Studios: https://msdn.duke4.n...otx3studios.php by Aaro Ruohonen

Took me 40 minutes (way longer than I expected it to be), great classic-styled layout with surprising interconnections, a bit cramped in places. Some of those ambushes were nasty, drones and commander in front of your eyes, newbeasts in your back repeatedly, that was kind of bad but kept me on my toes. A bit challenging with some tough firefights but that just so happens to be my thing, monster / ammo / health ratio reminded me of my old Spiegul map, probably due to the amount of tanks and turrets. Some of the outside areas could have looked cleaner, some of those buildings are too simplistic (even for 3DR style) and some of those streets too narrow, looking out of place in an otherwise impeccably designed level. I liked how I had to find an alternative way back to the yellow key due to the impossibility of backtracking past a certain point (if you're out of jetpack). Really liked the map overall and looking forward to playing Bank Roll 2000 by the same author.

[ck3D]

Bank Roll 2000 by Aaro Ruohonen (see the post above): https://msdn.duke4.n...ankroll2000.php

Interestingly a more enjoyable experience than X3 Studios which felt a lot more claustrophobic and whose design left a bit more to be desired in sections. This one is very coherent and a legit remake of the original Bank Roll with a lot of traditional tributes paid to said classic map from the puzzles to the layout, I thought it was really well put together. Didn't have too much trouble despite being low on shotgun / chaingun ammo the whole time, I had to use heavy weapons i.e.. the RPG, Shrinker, Pipebombs or Devastator a lot more than I normally do and that was enjoyable. End came a bit abruptly, but rightfully so in the footsteps of the original. Would be interesting to see more remakes of the OG maps that are actually done just as well as this one is.

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 11 January 2019 - 02:39 PM, said:

Bank Roll 2000 by Aaro Ruohonen (see the post above): https://msdn.duke4.n...ankroll2000.php

Interestingly a more enjoyable experience than X3 Studios which felt a lot more claustrophobic and whose design left a bit more to be desired in sections. This one is very coherent and a legit remake of the original Bank Roll with a lot of traditional tributes paid to said classic map from the puzzles to the layout, I thought it was really well put together. Didn't have too much trouble despite being low on shotgun / chaingun ammo the whole time, I had to use heavy weapons i.e.. the RPG, Shrinker, Pipebombs or Devastator a lot more than I normally do and that was enjoyable. End came a bit abruptly, but rightfully so in the footsteps of the original. Would be interesting to see more remakes of the OG maps that are actually done just as well as this one is.

Maps like that make me wonder what a sort of level by level "remake" of the vanilla episodes by the community would be like. Not necessarily to make them "better" but their own styles and takes on them.

[ck3D]

Ninety-Six, on 12 January 2019 - 03:06 AM, said:

Maps like that make me wonder what a sort of level by level "remake" of the vanilla episodes by the community would be like. Not necessarily to make them "better" but their own styles and takes on them.

It's kind of been a tacit obsession for some people in the community forever now. I just recently set up my old PC again so I could give some of those new releases from the past years a try, and in the Duke folder I found several Hollywood Holocaust remakes by fans I must have downloaded from random sources eons ago, they all suck and can't hold a candle to the original but the intent's always been there much like people were obsessed with porting Doom maps to Duke for a while in the early days or myhouse.maps / mycity.maps. I really like when it's a talented mapper who's actually able to project their own style onto the originals, ie.. Dan M's Tribute to Action II https://msdn.duke4.net/hottribute.php (which I can't believe is already ten years old) was a perfect, way more ambitious and developed take on the essential concept of E1L1, or Davox's Ultimate Stadium Remake: https://steamcommuni...s/?id=780353330, AFAIK MetHy was trying to pinpoint the very feel of E1L1 for his opening Metropolitan Mayhem level... I think we're really just subconsciously trying to recreate that feel of magic that struck us as youngsters when firing up Duke Nukem 3D for the very first time, getting lost on that high-ledge with the RPG arising, wasting pipebombs and finally unveiling that secret apartment near the cinema sign that's so well-hidden you're a hundred percent certain you're the only people on Earth besides the level designers who know about it because you're 12 or something. Mappers going for those remakes I feel are really trying to replicate a certain innocence, which can be hard to pull off artificially once you've lost it due to years of intense playing and mapping. Paying due respect to the original Duke style in terms of gameplay and design (which you don't always have to, but might be desired in remakes) all the while giving the whole coherent piece your own twist is a real challenge. Personally, I know E1L1 inspired me for a while for basic inspiration such as the simple idea of building some city sections at an angle. The love for those original levels is still very real, and I've always been fascinated by their influence over people's developing mapping styles and interpretation of what's possible to design (or how things should be designed) for this game, and how far it could be possible (or wise) to try walking away from those standards.

Speaking of which, I just played Duketroid by Alex Beyman: https://msdn.duke4.n...otduketroid.php this is one of those maps where the author explicitly tries hard to come up with alternative gameplay. He makes a lengthy point about his vision of how different Duke maps could look and play in the .txt file which is interesting and fair, but I ended up not really finding his level to be as revolutionary as it all sounded. I surely get that inventory items could be given a more capital emphasis in a lot of user maps but there also are many levels that already (maybe more implicitly) make amazing use of them, compared to which that map to me felt like some kind of zoo.map or demo tutorial on the inventory items. The map looked good (I liked the slopes) and wasn't a bad experience, but fundamentally really relied on the mechanics of experimental levels from 1996. I did have fun though. That random trooper spawning in the pitch black room where you have to use the NVG's was an amazing idea in that a trooper is normally such a weakling yet is the worst thing that could happen there. One of his shots hit one of the 200+ dormant Newbeasts in the room, which in turn started activiting others and I had to run like hell back to the hub mid-domino effect, really hoping 50+ Newbeasts wouldn't be on my back till then somehow.

[Mister Sinister]

You've yet to play the real deal.

[Mark]

Ninety-Six, on 12 January 2019 - 03:06 AM, said:

Maps like that make me wonder what a sort of level by level "remake" of the vanilla episodes by the community would be like. Not necessarily to make them "better" but their own styles and takes on them.

I think it would be cool. But some of the purists will find a way to heap criticism on it even if the project's aim is not to be original.

[Ninety-Six]

Mark, on 13 January 2019 - 07:22 AM, said:

I think it would be cool. But some of the purists will find a way to heap criticism on it even if the project's aim is not to be original.

Screw 'em. I say do it anyway for its own sake. I'd participate in such a project myself if I knew anything about mapping, let alone Build mapping. Maybe at some point in the future...

[ck3D]

Mark, on 13 January 2019 - 07:22 AM, said:

I think it would be cool. But some of the purists will find a way to heap criticism on it even if the project's aim is not to be original.

If carried out the way Bank Roll 2000 was (for instance), I doubt many purists would have anything negative to say about it. It's essentially the same layout (which were key in the original maps) just with extra areas that actually function with it (a commendable feat), and improvement on detail / textures without breaking 3DR style. Designing such maps is a very underrated science though, it's actually very hard to match the quality of the originals without breaking the style (which isn't a bad thing per se, but it's interesting to try and stick to); I always found more realistic-looking, technically detailed maps with basic-to-average layouts to be easier to pull off. The real art is getting the best of both worlds. We kind of tried to tackle that with Metropolitan Mayhem but that was a while back and my personal first experiment trying to match the look and feel of the OG levels, I kind of didn't know where to start yet; were I to recreate most of my maps for that project today, they would be entirely different, I feel like I've learned a lot about gameplay since then and realized getting the form to follow the function as opposed to the other way around was (at least to me) the true ultimate challenge.

[Mark]

Remember, this is a CBP and its aim was for each level to be unique to that mapper's style or vision. So anyone that strays too far will get some flack.

[ck3D]

Mark, on 14 January 2019 - 04:08 PM, said:

Remember, this is a CBP and its aim was for each level to be unique to that mapper's style or vision. So anyone that strays too far will get some flack.

I'm confused, do you mean Metropolitan Mayhem? For that project, our very aim was actually to try and stray away from the personal styles we had developed over years of mapping for once, to actively try and match the 3DR look as much as possible (maybe not for Mikko as his style is already pretty 3DR-ish); that was the concept from the start (the 24-hour limit on each map was a way to try and enforce that rule on our naive selves). So in this context, the personal twists you see in those maps are all the spots where our logic failed, ha. Not that there's anything wrong with them per se, I just think it's funny people kept hitting me up about little things breaking the original style in the episode for years; stuff I wasn't even aware was specific or inherent to the original Duke 3D design style (i.e..: differently sized trashcans being a no-no) in the first place.

I'm mostly interested in seeing people mapping in their own style, mapping in the true 3DR style sense is a separate science in itself (and pushes one to question, push and explore their own limitations) is all I'm trying to say.

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 16 January 2019 - 08:03 AM, said:

I'm confused, do you mean Metropolitan Mayhem? For that project, our very aim was actually to try and stray away from the personal styles we had developed over years of mapping for once, to actively try and match the 3DR look as much as possible (maybe not for Mikko as his style is already pretty 3DR-ish); that was the concept from the start (the 24-hour limit on each map was a way to try and enforce that rule on our naive selves). So in this context, the personal twists you see in those maps are all the spots where our logic failed, ha. Not that there's anything wrong with them per se, I just think it's funny people kept hitting me up about little things breaking the original style in the episode for years; stuff I wasn't even aware was specific or inherent to the original Duke 3D design style (i.e..: differently sized trashcans being a no-no) in the first place.

I'm mostly interested in seeing people mapping in their own style, mapping in the true 3DR style sense is a separate science in itself (and pushes one to question, push and explore their own limitations) is all I'm trying to say.

I think Mark was talking about this hypothetical reimagining.

[ck3D]

Oh but of course, makes sense now. Silly me.