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Duke Nukem 3D: 20th Anniversary World Tour

User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3001

View PostNinety-Six, on 26 November 2018 - 08:55 PM, said:

I'm not sure if a level as massive as Mirage Barrage could work as a secret level.

Why not?

Top Secret (Duke it out in DC) is a pretty large level

There's no 'rule' saying secret maps have to be small
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#3002

In fact I'd say it's more in line with tradition to make secret levels large and more interesting/exotic locations.
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User is online   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#3003

View PostForge, on 25 November 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

We're going to suspend disbelief about a military submarine parked in a box canyon outside a prison, or dropping down a sewer hole in a flooded city, only to emerge in a sewer pipe in a whole different un-flooded part of the city that would technically be at a much lower point than the flooded section of city Duke just left; thus should actually be underwater - but we can't get over the lack of cutscenes of Duke sitting in 1st class, or riding in a helicopter, or taking a teleporter to different parts of the same planet.

Okay. :rolleyes:


Nobody said cutscenes.

View PostRedxplatinum, on 25 November 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

and redid most of the voices.


Badly.
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User is offline   NNC 

#3004

Mirage Barrage and Golden Carnage are the crowning jewels of the release, and I'm pretty sure it's not just the community trope, but the devs also agree with us on this. They couldn't afford to put any of them into the secret slot (means, 80% of the players don't even bother finding/playing it), like Pharaoh in Doom's TNT Eviluion. That release had 30 other normal maps, not to mention the other 32 level WAD for the same release.

2 more exotic style levels would have made sense to rebalance the tidy european aesthetic of the episode though. A better looking version of TNT's Caribbean (like a map in Mexico) would have made a miracle for our satisfaction factor.
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User is offline   necroslut 

#3005

I'm pretty sure Coliseum is the secret map because it's primarily a deathmatch map, not because of it's location or size.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3006

View PostNancsi, on 27 November 2018 - 01:03 AM, said:

2 more exotic style levels would have made sense to rebalance the tidy european aesthetic of the episode though. A better looking version of TNT's Caribbean (like a map in Mexico) would have made a miracle for our satisfaction factor.

^this
Rio de Janeiro and/or Cancun
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#3007

View PostNinety-Six, on 25 November 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

It's not really about suspension of disbelief (at least not for me, anyway). It's more that Duke was one of the few games (and really still kind of is) that did level continuity. It was a unique point that made the game more immersive, and its absence is felt. Of course, travelling the world makes that a bit more challenging, but they could have thought of a couple of ways to bridge levels together

I believe this is the classic way to do this:
Posted Image
On a second thought I believe that if they did unique tally screens with Duke standing against a panoramic view of each completed city in the background (and all that in high-res and not the original 320x200 stuff) it would've been so much better.
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User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#3008

View PostMrFlibble, on 27 November 2018 - 03:04 AM, said:

I believe this is the classic way to do this:
Posted Image
On a second thought I believe that if they did unique tally screens with Duke standing against a panoramic view of each completed city in the background (and all that in high-res and not the original 320x200 stuff) it would've been so much better.


That would have been a good substitute.
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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#3009

And what about multi-language dubbing for the game, like for Duke Nukem Forever ?

The french version of Duke Nukem Forever is just like the french version of Last Action Hero : better than the original ^^
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#3010

I never understood the urge of the French to localize everything. It's obsessive and kinda sick. English is the only way to go, the ONLY. It's the original and it cannot get any better. And now back to topic.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3011

Duke doesn't retreat; thus he doesn't need to know French.

WT might be slightly more interesting if Duke spoke his lines in the tongue native to the country/city where the map takes place.

Russian in Moscow, Egyptian in Cairo, Spanish in L.A., etc.
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User is offline   Sanek 

#3012

View PostNightFright, on 29 November 2018 - 02:53 AM, said:

I never understood the urge of the French to localize everything. It's obsessive and kinda sick. English is the only way to go, the ONLY. It's the original and it cannot get any better. And now back to topic.


Localisation/dubbing is usually being done for countrires where people's stupid and can't make the effort to learn english.
Unless there's not much to translate, like the main menu.

In russian version of DNF, the Duke was dubbed by the guy who dubs Shrek, for crying out loud!
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3013

View PostSanek, on 29 November 2018 - 03:44 AM, said:

Localisation/dubbing is usually being done for countrires where people's stupid and can't make the effort to learn english.

Still bitter over the Napoleon thing?

Gamers, in general, aren't the epitome of high society. Trying to force one to get culture is about as futile as explaining gravity to a flat-earther.

This post has been edited by Forge: 29 November 2018 - 04:11 AM

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User is offline   Sanek 

#3014

View PostForge, on 29 November 2018 - 04:08 AM, said:

Still bitter over the Napoleon thing?

Gamers, in general, aren't the epitome of high society. Trying to force one to get culture is about as futile as explaining gravity to a flat-earther.


I know. But I don't mean just video games, I mean every medium from movies to books to television.
And it's not about the culture, it's about the overall presentation. If you don't get the game because something's lost in translation then it's not good.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3015

Calling people stupid and lazy because they don't want to learn a language just to play a video game (or watch a movie) is a bit narrow. Some people can barely speak or write their own language properly.
It's natural to desire a translation over being forced to learn.

Out of curiosity, I wanted to watch hedgehog in the fog. I had to find one that was dubbed. Bit easier and more convenient than trying to learn the native language first.

This post has been edited by Forge: 29 November 2018 - 05:16 AM

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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#3016

Thanks, it is true that the anglo-saxon culture is limited to common wealth and USA, and possibly don't even have equivalents in the other cultures...
I am not talking there about the pop culture which is shared by the entire world, but yet again why is there no french of german (or else) cultural elements in the pop culture just as it is shown in Ready Player One ?

There should definitly be more rooms for other languages, whatever the domain !
And not to mention that French language have in common whith english to be universal, even if only around 300 millions peoples around the world speak frenck, its representation is worldwide with communities and territories on every single continent and close to every single culture : North and South america, europe, africa and asia (especially close to australia)
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#3017

View PostNightFright, on 29 November 2018 - 02:53 AM, said:

I never understood the urge of the French to localize everything. It's obsessive and kinda sick. English is the only way to go, the ONLY. It's the original and it cannot get any better. And now back to topic.


This reminds me of... Heil
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#3018

Some countries have laws that mandate translation. I believe the purpose is to preserve their identity.
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User is offline   MetHy 

#3019

View PostFox, on 30 November 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

Some countries have laws that mandate translation. I believe the purpose is to preserve their identity.


Nothing like this for video games over here as far as I'm aware. You'll just get backlash reviews these days if there is no translation.
For about a decade now major foreign movies in theathers have their original version aired as well, before that it was all dubbed, but I don't think it's related to any law, just what the audiance wants.
Ads (TV or otherwise) are a different things. Any non-French word used has to be subtitled.
Also radios are obligated to have a pretty big ratio for French songs, something about 80% French, 20% foreign. IIRC it comes from an old 80's law still applied today.


This leads to record companies telling artists and bands "you sound cool but we'll only sign you if you drop the English and sing in French". This happened between Universal my old band (when I wasn't in the band anymore) , and they told them to fuck off.
I told them they were crazy not to accept the deal, they could at least have tried to negotiate (have the radio singles in French, rest of the disc in English, since that's all that matters) or take a 1-2 record deal to get popular and then do their own thing without Universal, but huh, too much pride I guess.

tl;dr there are stupid laws but so far it's not the laws that affect video games.

edit: , and yes, that law for radio was officially to "preserve" the language and culture.
A committee also makes up new French words for every day use english words, which people are then obligated to use in official papers. For instance they came up with "courriel" to replace "e-mail". That should help fight back the invasion!

This post has been edited by MetHy: 30 November 2018 - 04:48 AM

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User is offline   Sanek 

#3020

View PostMetHy, on 30 November 2018 - 04:38 AM, said:


Ads (TV or otherwise) are a different things. Any non-French word used has to be subtitled.
Also radios are obligated to have a pretty big ratio for French songs, something about 80% French, 20% foreign. IIRC it comes from an old 80's law still applied today.

edit: , and yes, that law for radio was officially to "preserve" the language and culture.

Sounds more like lobbying of local company's intrerests. Just a step away from near-monopoly, which is not good. When you don't have competition there's no reason to impove your work, so the quality starts to decline. Same goes for every kind of a deal that implies any exclusivity. Just look at Codemasters' Formula 1 series - it's the same game every year with zero improvements.

Here in Russia, the goverment wants to have less foreign movies in theaters, because the average russian film can't compete with average foreign blockbuster. Most of the movie goers hate russian cinema of today - either it's embarrassing "comedy" or zealous propaganda. If there'll be less foreign movies it'll get even worse.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3021

View PostSanek, on 30 November 2018 - 07:03 AM, said:

Here in Russia, the goverment wants to have less foreign movies in theaters,

Could have something to do with trade and currency. Maybe Russia doesn't want an outflow of monetary resources with nothing of substance to show for it.

Giving Hollywood and Baliwood money, is like paying your enemy.

This post has been edited by Forge: 30 November 2018 - 08:08 AM

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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#3022

Its quebec that have the most law for the protection of the french language, which is actually a 300 years old version of the actual french language,

in France we accomodate of some english words, but we like good translations/dubbing as well, and Daniel Beretta (dubber of Duke Nukem and Arnold Schwartzenegger) is one of the bests dubbers we have in france and for decades

It is well know fact that french is considered the most beautifull language in the world, that doesn't mean every single french people speak french the most beautifull way everyday...

This post has been edited by gemeaux333: 30 November 2018 - 09:06 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3023

View Postgemeaux333, on 30 November 2018 - 09:04 AM, said:

It is well know fact that french is considered the most beautifull language in the world,

it has to. it's the language of begging for one's life from invaders
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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#3024

This means ?

This post has been edited by gemeaux333: 30 November 2018 - 01:36 PM

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User is online   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#3025

View PostForge, on 30 November 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

it has to. it's the language of begging for one's life from invaders



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User is offline   NNC 

#3026

View Postgemeaux333, on 30 November 2018 - 09:04 AM, said:

It is well know fact that french is considered the most beautifull language in the world


Yeah, factual fact. :rolleyes:
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3027

View Postgemeaux333, on 30 November 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

This means ?

French are lovers, not fighters*
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User is offline   VGA 

#3028

View PostFox, on 30 November 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

Some countries have laws that mandate translation. I believe the purpose is to preserve their identity.

Yeah, France is really preserving its identity :rolleyes:
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#3029

Here's my two cents. I've always preferred playing games in English, in part because for most of the 90s the only alternative here in Russia were pirate translations, most of which were of such obviously poor quality that it was simply unbearable to me; whereas playing in English let me learn more of the language. (There were exceptions, some teams actually did a good job with translations but they were quickly pushed out of the market because a careful translation took time.)

I think it would not be erroneous to postulate a rule of thumb that it is generally preferable to play games (as well as watch movies, read books etc.) in the original language and not in the translation. However I would not agree that a translation would necessarily be unable to surpass the original in quality. Secondly, it also seems to me a bit of an overkill to learn a language simply to play a game; actually games can be a great language learning tool (not in the least because of their interactivity and also because you are motivated to understand what's going on) but not everyone can afford this, people can also simply want to play the game and enjoy it, no scaling of language barriers in the process.

Also as someone who took active part in fan translations of Command & Conquer (Gold Edition), Red Alert and Dune II I can say that there is an appeal of localisations from the translator's point of view. How do you convey this or that meaning? will you be able to retain the style? how to handle culture-specific references that may not be recognised by the target audience? This in itself is a fun and interesting task. I also sometimes enjoy comparing translations into languages that I know (which is English, Russian and German) for exactly the same reason of finding out how the translators navigated all the interesting spots.

I was quite happy that with StarCraft Remastered, the game got its official Russian translation for the first time, even though I'm not entirely content with the quality of the result (I don't mean acting or style, more how some details and shades of meaning were rendered in dialogue; but I'm not completely happy with some voice acting either). It gets the job done, and it's official, which is nice. I wouldn't be happy if I did not have the option to use another language instead though, when Warcraft III came out there was no official way to get the English version except by downloading from Blizzard (but that also didn't come around immediately IIRC) which wasn't affordable to me back then due to bandwidth limitations.

That said, personally I don't believe that games like Duke Nukem 3D require a full translation with voice-overs because actually there isn't a lot of text to begin with. I suppose some good subtitles would do the job just fine. However I can understand people who take pride in their native voice actors that can (supposedly) do Duke on par with the voice of Jon St John. There's also the factor of tradition: if a voice actor has been doing this since the 90s for example the audience grew used to them and will strongly associate the voice with the character(s). If the translation is done properly, there's no reason to discard it as inferior to the original. Some may also appreciate an actor on their own which would then crate an added value in a translation that features this actor.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#3030

View PostMrFlibble, on 01 December 2018 - 02:54 AM, said:

Also as someone who took active part in fan translations of ....., Red Alert

Russian to Japanese translation:


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