[Tea Monster]

Yes, it takes a particular skill to do 8-bit art. Maybe nobody in the studio can do that - so you hire someone who can. This is the job of a Producer or Art Director. We aren't talking about a fan group making a mod. This is a professional game company with funds. They can hire people who can make old Duke3d levels, that means that they can hire people who can do old Duke3D art.

Lazy, didn't care, couldn't be bothered.

The big problem with World Tour is that some ass-hat on the board at Gearbox will be able to say "This is the second Duke title to bomb, why should we put any money into making a new game?" Thanks guys.

[Fox]

Randy already sort of implied that. On the other hand, he must know that Megaton sold fairly well.

[Never Forgotten]

Tea Monster, on 19 November 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

The big problem with World Tour is that some ass-hat on the board at Gearbox will be able to say "This is the second Duke title to bomb, why should we put any money into making a new game?" Thanks guys.

But would that mean they would be willing to sell the rights? Because then maybe another company, one who'd be able to make a good Duke game, could get there hands on it.

[NNC]

I don't care how Gearbox fail, but I'm afraid we'll never see Blum and Levelord doing mapping again. This should have been a nice comeback, and Levelord even said on a forum, he will consider his return to mapping if this thing turns out to be successful, but I bet he might even regret his decision (not sure about Blum, but I think he is pretty much in the same state).

I'm not sure what people think about that here, but the work of these guys, along with Lee Jackson, was an A+ (well, Levelord was an A-), they deserve more recognition.

[Fox]

The new levels and music were praised by practically everyone.

[Sledgehammer]

You can always contact both and ask them to make more maps for Duke. I bet my 20 bucks even they do understand (deep inside at least) why WT has failed. By no means its failure is an evidence that Duke is shit and there is no hope for him or that old level designers should never make complex level design again. And it wasn't GB only product which failed, there were Battleborn and Borderlands pre-sequel. WT just proved one point: if you release overpriced lazy cashgrab no one will buy it. Megaton sales just prove this further.

I said it countless times and repeat it again, if it was HTTKC plus WT new content (good and better polished new content) and if it had the same price or bigger people would buy it like hotcakes, it would be the best DN3D version ever. Too bad it's dead and it's bad for both Gearbox (easy money plus reputation) and fans. Hopefully one day Duke IP will be in hands of duke4, he deserve better.

[Micky C]

Tea Monster, on 19 November 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

The big problem with World Tour is that some ass-hat on the board at Gearbox will be able to say "This is the second Duke title to bomb, why should we put any money into making a new game?" Thanks guys.

I can see the board meeting now:

"This is the second Duke game in a row to bomb. Why is this? What are the common factors between the two?"
"Well, we created both of them, they have that in common."
"No, it must be something else... think men, think!"
"The public is wrong."
"Of course! It's everyone else's fault! Well, that does it. No more Duke games for them."

[Sledgehammer]

Did DNF bomb though? I always saw it as RE6, both were successful in term of sales while quality of games was questionable.

[hismasterplan]

Critically yes, financially no.

[Striker]

Sledgehammer, on 18 November 2016 - 01:51 AM, said:

Paid professional from AAA studio:

Free work from duke4 user:

No difference.

Actually, no, Nerve is better because people want only community work since they're biased.

The latter is far better. Why some people think that green shit-spackling looks any good is beyond me. Those in denial of it being a lazy, mspaint/palswap tool-like piece of crap unworthy of AAA paid professional work also confuses me. Looks like someone remapped the colors of the freezethrower in SLADE and forgot some of the palette indexes, leaving dots of unchanged & conflicting colors... then slapped a pressure gauge on it. I've seen far better sprite work in mods, and in the Duke and Doom communities. I expect something better from an AAA company that made great things like Resurrection of Evil, especially for something that cost just as much as RoE. If I were to do something like this for a serious project, I'd expect to be fired.

[Hank]

Another shot - with the now famous incinerator

[NNC]

I've replayed Golden Carnage with a pistol start, and ran out of explosives when I was trapped by tripbomb in the first inside room. However I realized there is a mirror in there and got provided with a shrinker in the same room, so I managed to shrink myself and went under the tripbombs to the other part of the room.

These kind of little gameplay touches what made the original developers and their maps so great.

[Striker]

I don't disagree that the maps are good, because they are after all. It's just the artwork I have a problem with.

[Hank]

Striker, on 19 November 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

I don't disagree that the maps are good, because they are after all. It's just the artwork I have a problem with.

The irony is, I only used the Incinerator once, and flushed it like the Expander. A weapon not for me type of thing; and therefore would never notice the poor workmanship, art wise.

[NNC]

The Incinerator is like the Shrinker, Expander and Freezer. All are gimmicky weapons, that can be used occasionally, and can be useful in some type of situations. Of course none of them can match the regular weapons (Shotgun, Chaingun, RPG, Pipebombs). However they are all better than the Tripbomb. That is one useless thing in the game.

[----]

Nancsi, on 20 November 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

The Incinerator is like the Shrinker, Expander and Freezer. All are gimmicky weapons, that can be used occasionally, and can be useful in some type of situations. Of course none of them can match the regular weapons (Shotgun, Chaingun, RPG, Pipebombs). However they are all better than the Tripbomb. That is one useless thing in the game.

Shrinker and Freezer (those in the original DN3D before 1.5) are weapons that don't do direct kills and would work better in a game like Serious Sam: Spam the incoming hordes and let the enemies break the frozen and stomp the shrunk ones when running toward the player. To do that they must be more effective in shrinking and freezing them than the other weapons kill them or at least be on par.

[brullov]

I do not like new levels. Comparing them with original, I just can't believe they were made by the same people.

[CatNapDreams]

Frog, on 20 November 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

I do not like new levels. Comparing them with original, I just can't believe they were made by the same people.

Have you heard Axle Rose of Guns and Roses sing in the last few years? Compare his early stuff to his attempts now... the skill is lost.
I haven't played it, but I do read this thread. While someone like me won't likely notice all of these things that seem to be drops in quality from Duke 3D of the 90s, I still would not expect the same mappers to produce the same quality now.

CatNapDreams

[NNC]

The original levels and episodes have different qualities and styles as well. For example, the deathmatch arenas of E3 are a lot different to the E1 and E2 styled missions. Even as a kid, I noticed it was not the same atmosphere. E4 made even more drastic changes. Levels especially by Randy are far cries to what we used to see in the first 3 episodes, but not for the worse.

E5 is more detailed, sometimes even too detailed, although the authors' style can be very well seen in some of the levels. The mentioned Golden Carnage for example wouldn't be out of place from the Birth episode, it clearly has the same vibes as Derelict, and Blum's style is easy to spot. Tour de Nukem is another level where the original vibes can be seen, especially in the metro/sewer/alien base part, which is a great mix of The Abyss and Sewer. The pyramid and the space parts of Mirage Barrage are crying for Blum style as well.

The level that looks the least classic to me is Bloody Hell (probably because it has a Randy touch), although that strange teleport puzzle in the basement looks clearly Levelord.

[Tekedon]

Let me ask you guys something. How come this game runs like shit? I have well over the recommended specs. (well it's a laptop but still)

Specs:

i7 4710hq (2,5 ghz to 3,5 ghz) quadcore
Nvidia Geforce GTX 850m 2gb ddr3 (overclocked)
8 gb system ram
Win 10

When using "real 3d rendering" in full-hd I get around 15 - 30 fps max. Seems like this is worse optimized than Polymer. How come then recommended specs are a GTX 610? I would not have expected a game from 1996 to run this crappy, sure it's updated but still. Even without "real 3d rendering" I get drops below 60 fps sometimes. UNACCEPTABLE.

[PsychoGoatee]

I think Alien World Order is incredible, personally I think it's as solid a choice for best Duke episode as anything else, having just replayed the originals. I like Levelord's maps here better than his from Duke 3D before, and those were great as well. Also these levels generally take longer, really dig the layouts too.

No matter what the levels were, they wouldn't please everybody. If Duke 3D was released today it wouldn't please all Duke 3D fans (bear with the time paradox on this example). Way too many subjective variables, it's all personal experience with some interactive entertainment. That said, I think it's pretty out there to say Allen and Levelord don't still have it.

[PikaCommando]

I dig Alien World Order because the level layouts are pretty simple. I'm really not a fan of The Abyss/Lunar Apocalypse/Derelict-style levels.

[Kawa]

To each their own I guess. At least concerning the maps.

[NNC]

To each his own, I guess. Without levels like The Abyss, Dark Side and Derelict I wouldn't be here (well, enough reason to hate them for some ). They look sooo awesome for me compared to a generic and linear city or hi-tech level.

[HulkNukem]

Abyss is my least favorite Episode 1 map by far.
Looks cool, boring and confusing to play.

[Fox]

Agree. It may not be a big deal for someone familiarized with the game, but the first time it was very hard to get through it.

[Hank]

The Abyss gave me a sense of accomplishment.

Sure, it was not your 'normal' look for a key, go through that door, go find the next key and go through that gate and shot everything in sight type of level. Personally, Abyss is the map that earned my deep respect for Mr. Gray aka Levelord. Lot's of magic imagination embedded in this map.

But, that's just me.

[Tea Monster]

No it isn't just you. Creeping around that underground maze with the lava, when just minutes before you had triggered an earthquake. Then finding the underground spaceship. That is still my favorite level of pretty much any game. It was one of the few to give me an actual sense of adventure to explore it and find out what was going on.

[Hendricks266]

I recall being more stumped by the Shawshank Redemption poster in E1L3, and being bummed that I couldn't unlock the big door in the courtyard with DNUNLOCK because I was playing the shareware at the time. By the time I figured out how to get past that, I don't recall any trouble with the rest of E1.

[NNC]

I had troubles with the red key in E1L2. It seemed so hidden back in those days.

E1L3 was a bitch, not only that the first pigcop easily killed me, but it had to encounter many traps. I fell down in the gear area, had troubles with the tripwires in the yellow key room, and while managed to get past the poster easily, I haven't realised that those cracks can be blown.

E1L4 was first problematic with the shrinker, then it had those gears and I couldn't figure out what to do.

E1L5 was hard, because I didn't trigger the earthquake and the shrinker, so I wandered aimlessly for an hour or so.

So many good memories.

I'm not sure if I had any serious issues with the registered maps though. Critical Mass gave me goosebumps with those booby traps. Derelict and The Queen were quite difficult back then.