[MetHy]

Zummone, on 10 September 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

I'm so happy E1L1 seems to be plastered with dev commentary, more than any other game that can tout this feature. I just hope the first level wasn't a short burst and they don't run out of enthusiasm or things to say later on (Randy won't, that's a given). And that at least each episode is a separate session, to minimize any fatigue of standing there for more than an hour watching a mute let's play.

I'm also kinda disappointed they didn't address any of E1L1's forced damage spots (falling and the explosion in the red keycard room). They always stood out to me and I thought they had a little more purpose, since they basically screw any legit no-damage run.
Then again, I think I grew a not-disliking on their render and JSJ's new voice acting, in the same way I would not-dislike a cheap bastardized version of Reloaded. $20 is still too much though.

About forced damage, you're not thinking big picture here. E1L1 was made not only as a showcase of the awesomeness of the game's and the engine, but also as a tutorial map at the same time.

The damage from the fall of the rooftop, they could have made it not hurt the player by moving down the arrival teleporter sprite a few inches. The fact that there is a health pack means that they acknowledged the damage, but it's left so that you lose 2hp anyway. This teaches the player that the game HAS fall damage, it's a learning thing, and you need to realize that fall damage was something new back then. Doom didn't have fall damage, I don't think Dark Forces had it either, most FPS didn't.

I think it's the same thing with the explosion(s) at the end. That corridor with the pigcops leading to the exit, doesn't make any sense, because if you don't count the hole made by the explosion, it's only got one door, one exit and if entering from that door it leads to nowhere. I don't believe it's something they overlooked, but rather they made the 2nd entrance an explosion to make sure the player is aware of potential explosion damage and explosion radius. The explosion is also a mean to make the first pigcop have les hp, for a lower learning curve against them (unless you're playing on CGS, it's the first first pigcop).

[brullov]

MetHy, on 10 September 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

About forced damage, you're not thinking big picture here. E1L1 was made not only as a showcase of the awesomeness of the game's and the engine, but also as a tutorial map at the same time.

The damage from the fall of the rooftop, they could have made it not hurt the player by moving down the arrival teleporter sprite a few inches. The fact that there is a health pack means that they acknowledged the damage, but it's left so that you lose 2hp anyway. This teaches the player that the game HAS fall damage, it's a learning thing, and you need to realize that fall damage was something new back then. Doom didn't have fall damage, I don't think Dark Forces had it either, most FPS didn't.

I think it's the same thing with the explosion(s) at the end. That corridor with the pigcops leading to the exit, doesn't make any sense, because if you don't count the hole made by the explosion, it's only got one door, one exit and if entering from that door it leads to nowhere. I don't believe it's something they overlooked, but rather they made the 2nd entrance an explosion to make sure the player is aware of potential explosion damage and explosion radius. The explosion is also a mean to make the first pigcop have les hp, for a lower learning curve against them (unless you're playing on CGS, it's the first first pigcop).

Totally agree. Player also has a safe zone at the begining of E1L1 (the roof), so you can find all the keys for the game control or change them as you want. Pistol clip on the box shows the first pick-up experience. Climbing walls, buildings. Destroying walls.

[Zummone]

MetHy, on 10 September 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

but it's left so that you lose 2hp anyway

Yeah, unless you play in co-op. Several people I played with years ago were legitimately killed by that explosion because they didn't know better. I thought the fuel tanks at the beginning where supposed to be your ticket to explosion radius, but then again you can snipe them at a distance so I suppose you're right. By the way yes I know you were referring to the falling damage and not the explosion, no one can really die from there unless taking the fuel tanks head on.

That said, Dark Forces definitely had fall damage, albeit much more forgiving than Duke (basically a bit of altitude before Kyle starts screaming). I kinda "get" the big picture with a lot of E1L1's set pieces, my complaint was that I didn't hear the heads up from the level designer himself, it's like the one thing they always mention in developer commentaries.

[EvilEmperorZoRG {GR}]

MetHy, on 10 September 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

About forced damage, you're not thinking big picture here. E1L1 was made not only as a showcase of the awesomeness of the game's and the engine, but also as a tutorial map at the same time.

The damage from the fall of the rooftop, they could have made it not hurt the player by moving down the arrival teleporter sprite a few inches. The fact that there is a health pack means that they acknowledged the damage, but it's left so that you lose 2hp anyway. This teaches the player that the game HAS fall damage, it's a learning thing, and you need to realize that fall damage was something new back then. Doom didn't have fall damage, I don't think Dark Forces had it either, most FPS didn't.

I think it's the same thing with the explosion(s) at the end. That corridor with the pigcops leading to the exit, doesn't make any sense, because if you don't count the hole made by the explosion, it's only got one door, one exit and if entering from that door it leads to nowhere. I don't believe it's something they overlooked, but rather they made the 2nd entrance an explosion to make sure the player is aware of potential explosion damage and explosion radius. The explosion is also a mean to make the first pigcop have les hp, for a lower learning curve against them (unless you're playing on CGS, it's the first first pigcop).

lol never though of that... I always thought I did something wrong. I remember when I tried to avoid the last explotion damage but never managed to do it. Probably did 50 tries or so lol. Especially when I played in damn I'm good mode.

[HulkNukem]

I'm curious, how many of you know that when you go through the red door inside the arcade of E1L1, instead of walking up the ramp, if you jump up and crouch behind the wooden crate, when the wall explodes you won't take any damage?

[Daedolon]

I always jump from a pigcop onto of the bridge, or when I'm playing on easier, I just go through the projection screen.

[Zummone]

HulkNukem, on 10 September 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

I'm curious, how many of you know that when you go through the red door inside the arcade of E1L1, instead of walking up the ramp, if you jump up and crouch behind the wooden crate, when the wall explodes you won't take any damage?

Welp. Definitely not me because I always assumed the touchplate was placed in a sector where you were supposed to take damage. The more you know.

[Daedolon]

I've known of the box, but for some reason I've had trouble crouching down there in time, so I'm just avoiding the area in general.

[LkMax]

HulkNukem, on 10 September 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

I'm curious, how many of you know that when you go through the red door inside the arcade of E1L1, instead of walking up the ramp, if you jump up and crouch behind the wooden crate, when the wall explodes you won't take any damage?

Daedolon, on 10 September 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

I've known of the box, but for some reason I've had trouble crouching down there in time, so I'm just avoiding the area in general.

You actually don't need to crouch, just jump directly from the ramp to behind the crater.

[brullov]

In 2016 people discuss Duke Nukem 3D tactics for E1L1. It is lovely

[PsychoGoatee]

Still easily the best first level of any game too.

[HulkNukem]

Hollywood Holocaust and Red Light District are such a good 1-2 combo for beginning levels.
Its unfortunate Death Row kinda drags it down and then Toxic Dump completely kills the mood, at least for me anyways.
With original Doom, I can play almost the entire first episode, although theres a couple of the middle levels I don't care much for.
With Blood, I play until I beat Dark Carnival and then stop.
Shamed to admit I have not beat the second level of Shadow Warrior but I like that first one
Outlaws I haven't played much in the last 15 years just because of it being somewhat of a hassle to get running properly, but I can remember some of those levels quite vividly, like blowing up the seat in the outhouse in the first level leads to an underground... well you can guys can youtube it if you are curious
I only played the Redneck Rampage shareware in the 90s, but I remember absolutely losing it when that crazy guy drives the truck in a circle and just runs over chickens, enemies, or you if you get in his path.
The first few levels of Quake were pretty great, as were the first few for Quake 2.
Goldeneye also had a bit of a 1-2 punch for Dam and Facility.

I think most shooters of the 90s just had a real good first set of levels in general.

[hismasterplan]

HulkNukem, on 10 September 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

Hollywood Holocaust and Red Light District are such a good 1-2 combo for beginning levels.
Its unfortunate Death Row kinda drags it down and then Toxic Dump completely kills the mood, at least for me anyways.

Unless with Duke 64 you hit the secret Duke Burger level in Red Light District (Gun-crazy)

[brullov]

Back to World Tour. The sign says "Levelord street 5"

[PikaCommando]

I think Episode 1's worst mistake is taking it out of the city so soon.

[Kathy]

It was a 5 level episode, which had the right amount of variety. If you want more, Shrapnel has the city covered for you.

[Tea Monster]

TX - Can you ask people at GBX about re-rendering Chuck Jone's model sprites? Compared to the effort taken to do the lighting and coding, it shouldn't be AS MUCH work. It would make it a true re-master, which at the moment, it really isn't.

[Lunick]

Why are we assuming Gearbox has direct access to that stuff. I haven't heard anything about Interceptor/3D Realms sending any of the old Duke stuff to Gearbox, only that TerminX sent some beta stuff to the team working on World Tour.

[Micky C]

If the stuff still exists, don't Gearbox have the rights to it?

[Lunick]

Micky C, on 11 September 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:

If the stuff still exists, don't Gearbox have the rights to it?

They do but if TerminX had sent the prototype sprites to the team, doesn't that mean they didn't already have them? Otherwise he would have said something like "I told them to look in x folder for x sprite as something they could use in World Tour".

[necroslut]

Even if they had the stuff on disks, that doesn't mean they know where it is. Its possible they would have to go through years worth of files to find anything.

That said, just re-rendering the models would make them look significantly different from the original sprites as they've had (from the looks of it) quite a lot of handpaint on top. They would probably look more akin to the sprites in Total Meltdown, which looks like they've just been rendered without much if any touch-up. While it would be cool to be able to see more enemy detail, I think it would also change the tone and appearance of the game quite a bit.

On topic, its a bit "amusing" that we're getting a new episode by Blum+Levelord+Jackson, yet people are up in arms over losing Nuclear Winter. I don't think anyone could have predicted that a few years ago.

[Lunick]

I think it is fair to complain that content from a previous version of Duke Nukem 3D is no longer available with a later version of Duke Nukem 3D. The best part of Megaton was the content was finally legally available again (and in the case of some of the addons, compiled as a grp so other programs didn't have to be used although EDuke32 can read said files now). I also think it is fair that the content is not being added to World Tour due to extra things like adding effects to the new textures, adding the lights to the new maps, creating new widescreen sprites for Vacation, various multiplayer issues and making it more convenient for the player to play the addons (not having to restart and select an addon) compared to the World Tour addon which will be selectable from the main menu. There's also the fact that developer commentary would be much harder to do for the addons.

I don't think it is fair that Gearbox (and to the same extent, Nerve) is being called lazy and cashgrabbing the series. I'm not the person to decide if creating a new port from the source code is a good idea or not or creating a pretty new 3D renderer but considering that I think this port was started (or was materialising) from when Gearbox got the full rights to the Duke Nukem series, I think they did the best they could (while cutting corners like with the addons) and hope they fix the low quality sound effects.

I will say that I don't like the re-recorded lines, the new lines or the actual price of the package but everyone values content differently which is why I guess this has had a bit of an uproar (aside from Duke Nukem Forever and Aliens Colonial Marines). I'd really like to see Levelord and Allen continue to make maps in the future (as long as their maps are good in the package) as well as more Lee Jackson music.

[PsychoGoatee]

All good points, but you would think in general people would be a bit more pumped for a new episode by Blum/Levelord/Lee Jackson, that's one of the coolest things possible right there. Though it does make sense that us diehard fans would also be into wanting all the details right. But hot damn I'm pumped for that new episode

[PikaCommando]

MarphyBlack does it again

[NUKEMDAVE]

Lunick, on 11 September 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

The best part of Megaton was the content was finally legally available again (and in the case of some of the addons, compiled as a grp so other programs didn't have to be used although EDuke32 can read said files now). I also think it is fair that the content is not being added to World Tour due to extra things like adding effects to the new textures, adding the lights to the new maps, creating new widescreen sprites for Vacation, various multiplayer issues and making it more convenient for the player to play the addons (not having to restart and select an addon) compared to the World Tour addon which will be selectable from the main menu. There's also the fact that developer commentary would be much harder to do for the addons.

They wouldn't necessarily need to add commentary to the addons, but you're probably right as far as everything else goes. I wouldn't be surprised if they make the addons available as DLC if they do get added. If I do get World Tour, I'm going to try to get the addons running in the game just out of curiosity.

I would hope that they plan to allow World Tour to work with Workshop.

[Lunick]

NUKEMDAVE, on 12 September 2016 - 06:10 PM, said:

They wouldn't necessarily need to add commentary to the addons, but you're probably right as far as everything else goes. I wouldn't be surprised if they make the addons available as DLC if they do get added. If I do get World Tour, I'm going to try to get the addons running in the game just out of curiosity.

I would hope that they plan to allow World Tour to work with Workshop.

The one problem with running the addons through the game is that the game includes widescreen fixes to sprites and the skyboxes, it might take a bit more work than just "duke3d.exe -gADDON.grp"

[Mr. Nukem Roses]

NUKEMDAVE, on 12 September 2016 - 06:10 PM, said:

They wouldn't necessarily need to add commentary to the addons, but you're probably right as far as everything else goes. I wouldn't be surprised if they make the addons available as DLC if they do get added. If I do get World Tour, I'm going to try to get the addons running in the game just out of curiosity.

I would hope that they plan to allow World Tour to work with Workshop.

if they did that where they made the addons as DLC, would be stupid of them as well as show how much there a bunch of greedy sum bitches. who needs developer commentary? they basically took Megaton off the market. i'm glad i was able to get it WAY before this stuff even happened. the things i'd like to see for World Tour is workshop for one. addons added to the thing so people can play them instead of just regular Duke 3D. good multiplayer support with some modes including Team Dukematch. and the ability to run mods as well on World Tour

[NUKEMDAVE]

I doubt World Tour will include the co-op switch palette feature that Termit had added for me in Megaton either. I didn't think about that until just now. Other than that, I'm sure the addons could be made to work in single player and Dukematch possibly. It would take some additional work, though.

[MetHy]

Lunick, on 12 September 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

http://i.imgur.com/MQPQfff.png

The one problem with running the addons through the game is that the game includes widescreen fixes to sprites and the skyboxes, it might take a bit more work than just "duke3d.exe -gADDON.grp"

"Free mod support". More like no "support for no mod".

[Lunick]

I'm going to assume "mod support" means "We made an app that lets you upload custom maps (that you probably didn't make) to the Steam Workshop"