[necroslut]

 Daedolon, on 03 September 2016 - 05:03 AM, said:

Wasn't he in a presidential election at the start of Manhattan Project?

No, I think he was just being "hired" by the mayor to deal with the "infestation" problem.

[NightFright]

It's really sad to see that they are playing it safe with World Tour. They know this will sell and they don't have to develop a new engine from scratch.

While it's great to see the Levelord and Jackson return, it'll only get veteran fans excited. Doubt that it will attract new people to the franchise.

Gearbox is demonstrating how lazy they are and that they don't dare to release a brand new Duke title. So they are relying on the last game that really prevailed and milk it even more. Most of it is still based on the efforts of the original 3DR from the 90s, so it really feels cheap.

I would have preferred if they had released the new episode separately and cheaper, but we all know that's not gonna happen.

[Daedolon]

I doubt they really believe Duke even has fans anymore, considering.

[funduke]

When reading, that the new Duke3D version will break previously made user-authored addons, i remembered the Original Strife: Veteran Edition ( http://store.steampo...com/app/317040/ ). That version of Strife, although featuring new game functions and ways to play, contains the original game data file, so users of source ports can still play with it like with the original strife. Is there any hope, that something like this will be done with the new Duke3D? If so, the old add-ons will have a future (be playable for future buyers of the game, who not already own it).

Another question is: What will happen with Duke 1, Duke 2, Balls of Steel, DN: Manhattan project, and the official DN3D addons? Will they all remain in the digital/commercial void of no-longer sold games like the original WarCraft and GTA games?

Greetings
Funduke

[Never Forgotten]

 NightFright, on 03 September 2016 - 05:25 AM, said:

It's really sad to see that they are playing it safe with World Tour. They know this will sell and they don't have to develop a new engine from scratch.

While it's great to see the Levelord and Jackson return, it'll only get veteran fans excited. Doubt that it will attract new people to the franchise.

Gearbox is demonstrating how lazy they are and that they don't dare to release a brand new Duke title. So they are relying on the last game that really prevailed and milk it even more. Most of it is still based on the efforts of the original 3DR from the 90s, so it really feels cheap.

I would have preferred if they had released the new episode separately and cheaper, but we all know that's not gonna happen.

Personally I don't think they're being lazy about it, I think they're doing this to kind of ease everyone back into the idea of a new Duke game.

[Sledgehammer]

I can be wrong, but I don't think they play it safe, it looks like simple cashgrab re-release. You know, kind of like the rest HD re-releases of old games. Gearbox is just likely desperate for money, they wasted insane amount of money on Battleborn and it flopped very hard, maybe worse than Evolve, I believe Borderlands prequel sold badly too.

They reminds me of Capcom right now, but in the worst way because Capcom re-releases were quite not bad and unlike Capcom, Gearbox never produced great games if we don't count HL expansions. I wonder if they start to use favorite Capcom's "show us interest by voting with your wallet" tactics to fool people by giving false hopes.

And by the way, if they added all beta and alpha material along with a lot of other Duke Nukem related stuff which would take zero efforts and money to find, I'd buy their re-release immediately.

[MetHy]

On the contrary I actually have the feeling like they tried to please the fans. Lee Jackson, new JSJ quotes, Allen Blum and Levelord. Noone could have chosen more suitable people.

No, really, for me the problem is the artistic choices and the quality of the new art, mostly.

 funduke, on 03 September 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

When reading, that the new Duke3D version will break previously made user-authored addons, i remembered the Original Strife: Veteran Edition ( http://store.steampo...com/app/317040/ ). That version of Strife, although featuring new game functions and ways to play, contains the original game data file, so users of source ports can still play with it like with the original strife. Is there any hope, that something like this will be done with the new Duke3D? If so, the old add-ons will have a future (be playable for future buyers of the game, who not already own it).

Another question is: What will happen with Duke 1, Duke 2, Balls of Steel, DN: Manhattan project, and the official DN3D addons? Will they all remain in the digital/commercial void of no-longer sold games like the original WarCraft and GTA games?

Greetings
Funduke

Someone who had access to the game in development confirmed that they modified part of the original game. That broke compatibility with mods, but as workshop support suggest it, maps that don't use con changes should work, although at this point we can't tell if only vanilla maps would work, but I don't believe all of the EDuke32 advanced mapping possibilities will be there, unless they needed those features themselves for the new episode.
There is no way their version will be playable in DOS. I guess a vanilla compatible port of it may be possible, in theory (except perhaps the new weapon would be a problem), but without the lights; and obviously noone is going to bother to do that.

Though I'm sure it'll be playable in EDuke32 one way or another.

The absence of the add-ons is a scandal. So we had this new version of the game that not only made the add-ons widely and easily accessible, but it also made them much more easily playable. The add-ons even became easier to play in EDuke32 (no setup required) thanks to Megaton.

And now it's all gone. Poof. Forever. I'm guessing just because they don't own them and are too cheap to pay a bunch of royalties. Fuck'em and thank fuck for piracy.

Edit : btw, noone's talked about it yet, but I'm curious as how they handled online play. Altough I doubt we're going to see the modern style server service with the ability to drop in and out of a game at any time that we've been dreaming of.

[PikaCommando]

Personally, I'm all for pretending that Nuclear Winter never existed in the first place.

[Sledgehammer]

I think pretty much majority of people complained that it looks like shit. It's good they picked Jackson and Levelord and this is why I'm still curious about this new episode, I wonder if they re-did music and old voices too.

Forgot to mention, it would be nice if they did different enemies sprites for each map, like in Total Meltdown, it would work very well with new episode thematic because there is a big creativity freedom thanks to different countries and shame there is no Japanese city. At least there will be Egypt level, I still miss Powerslave.

[Daedolon]

At least according to the stream the re-recorded every Duke talk.

[HiPolyBash]

http://steamcommunit...50/discussions/

[ashura252]

Realistically, only the diehards will really notice these missing expansions, won't they?
As cool as it was to have them in Megaton, I'd guess that most users only really focussed on the "official" content, the content that everyone who played Duke the first time remembers.

So, this pack issues all of that official content, plus a whole new set.

What really would be cool, is if they also issued the two original platformers in this set on modern consoles. Not sure why they wouldn't.

[brullov]

Guys, explain me please, because I am not so clever. I have asked Randy P. about physical copy for Duke 3D WD. He answered: "I'd love that! Campaign to GameStop, etc, to make that happen." What does it mean?

[DI-MeisterM]

It means he wants more money, haha!
No serious: no idea.

[HulkNukem]

It means he wants you (the community) to be vocal about wanting a physical edition, tell Gamestop and all the other retailers, and then it could actually happen.
Essentially, prove to Randy a physical version is worth it.

[PsychoGoatee]

 X-Vector, on 03 September 2016 - 02:45 AM, said:

Not saying that that this new episode can't possibly be any good but whatever happened to "try before you buy", or at least testing out the waters a bit by awaiting people's reactions and watching some game footage when it's available (i.e. right after release)?
This name recognition based hype culture has gotten so bad that it not only affects the great unwashed, but has apparently spilled over to more niche gaming as well.

Nothing wrong with waiting, but if none of us buy it you won't have any fan's opinions to go by. So even in your example some of us need to just go ahead and buy it, right? I think you're going out on a slight limb here too, to be honest. Like say a new Coen Brothers movie comes out, I'll most likely see it based on their name (having liked so much of their work). Doesn't mean I'll automatically like the movie, but it's worth my 11 dollars to find out for me. Likewise, Allen Blum and Levelord making new Duke 3D levels again for most likely the only time, this is worth the 20 to me to try it. Plus the music by Lee Jackson, new voice lines from Jon St John, etc.

 Kathy, on 03 September 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

But seriously, I think that bringing Jon to the forefront of Duke marketing since 2011 was a bad idea.

This is perhaps the most baffling thing I've read on this forum. Jon is lovable, he's a legend, he's funny, I never thought I'd read such a thing on these pages.

[Hool]

 Vazovski, on 03 September 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

Guys, explain me please, because I am not so clever. I have asked Randy P. about physical copy for Duke 3D WD. He answered: "I'd love that! Campaign to GameStop, etc, to make that happen." What does it mean?

He's basically implying that retailers might not be interested in stocking a relatively old game on their shelves - as it might not get the sales they're looking for - and that you should campaign for interest in creating a physical edition. However, why should Gamestop be concerned about physical copies? Shouldn't the developer/publisher be looking over that?

Even a semi-indie game like Shadow Warrior got a physical release and it was relatively unknown compared to the big FPS hits like Call of Duty, Far Cry, Battlefield etc.

[MetHy]

Asking for a physical copy in this day and age is asking for a Steam activation key inside a DVD case.

[brullov]

 Hool, on 03 September 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

He's basically implying that retailers might not be interested in stocking a relatively old game on their shelves - as it might not get the sales they're looking for - and that you should campaign for interest in creating a physical edition. However, why should Gamestop be concerned about physical copies? Shouldn't the developer/publisher be looking over that?

Even a semi-indie game like Shadow Warrior got a physical release and it was relatively unknown compared to the big FPS hits like Call of Duty, Far Cry, Battlefield etc.

I actually got the same thoughts about it. Well, how can I even do that if I want?

[PsychoGoatee]

 MetHy, on 03 September 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

The absence of the add-ons is a scandal. So we had this new version of the game that not only made the add-ons widely and easily accessible, but it also made them much more easily playable. The add-ons even became easier to play in EDuke32 (no setup required) thanks to Megaton.

And now it's all gone. Poof. Forever. I'm guessing just because they don't own them and are too cheap to pay a bunch of royalties. Fuck'em and thank fuck for piracy.

Edit : btw, noone's talked about it yet, but I'm curious as how they handled online play. Altough I doubt we're going to see the modern style server service with the ability to drop in and out of a game at any time that we've been dreaming of.

I notice you're one of the most stringent critics on here for Duke maps, and I mean that in a good way. I'd say you're "stern but fair" when appraising maps. So just curious, do you really like those addons? Or is it just a general principle thing? I feel like I have lower standards there, and I think those addons are pretty bad, other than a couple maps in Life's a Beach.

[stumppy84]

As far as best addon maps, no question that Duke it out in DC are the best!

[MetHy]

Yeah I'm an annoying nitpicker.

It's a principle thing. The add-ons have been part of the game since 1997 IIRC and I think you underestimate the importance they have to players. They're official content, and Megaton had 7 official episodes, while Gearbox is asking 20€ for 5 episodes. Sure, the fifth episode is all new, but Megaton was also the opportunity for many people to discover the add-ons, to buy them and play them easily (and to even play them online), so it was new to those people as well.


Before Megaton came out, they used to be a pain in the ass to play. Not for sale anywhere, you had to either track down a copy or download an iso of each add-on. Then, even if you wanted to play them using a sourceport, you had to install them in DOS(box), because they were based on a DOS installer. IIRC, to play them in EDuke32 you also had to make your own shortcut to tell the game which con files it should use, and that's granted you knew how to do that (that you knew what a con file is and which should be used).
It was such a pain in the ass that at some point I vividly remember there was a popular torrent going around including an old version of EDuke32 with the add-ons pre-installed and the shortcuts made.

I think Gearbox is making a mistake not including them, I believe just because they don't want to share a small part of the profit (but I could be wrong on that). People will compare to the previous releases, and their absence will be part of the cons.

As for their quality, I think Caribbean Life is a masterpiece. It's my favourite DN3D episode. Duke It Out In DC is really good but it has some low points. Last time I digged into Nuclear Winter, and I actually "studied" it in a way, I realized it was even worse than I previously thought (in one of the levels there is even a touchplate that shouldn't be there, and which can either let the player go straight to the exit, or make it so that he can't beat the level, and that's just an example).

[PsychoGoatee]

Very surprising, you say only a few user maps have beaten the 3DR levels, but you like the non 3DR Caribbean episode the best. It's all personal taste, I guess it's just unpredictable. As for being part of the game since 97, my guess is the majority of fans didn't buy the Killaton Collection thingy etc. It's been an optional part of the game since 97. But I can see wanting it, was just curious for your take on the levels.

(edit: that said, I just noticed Wieder posted, so now I feel wacky for critiquing this expansion. Though I did say that one was the highlight. )

[MetHy]

 PsychoGoatee, on 03 September 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

Very surprising, you say only a few user maps have beaten the 3DR levels, but you like the non 3DR Caribbean episode the best.

Ah, but Life's A Beach isn't just a pack of mere usermaps. Though I guess a couple of maps in Duke It Out In DC, the least original ones, could be considered that, especially the subway one.
Levelord and A. Blum may have invented the formula, so they get all the dibs for that, but for me Robert Travis and Wieder perfected it in Life's A Beach.
Duke It Out In DC was the training ground, but you can see that they already had a higher grasp of the entire "DN3D level design scope" than the common usermapper.

[Striker]

 Lunick, on 02 September 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

Um, they're using the wrong floor texture behind the counter in Hollywood Holocaust...


Edit: It actually seems they changed the texture:

The textures are the same, but they have added bump/normal mapping to them. That's why it looks like that. It's noticeable in other shots as well.

Some kind of SSAO going on too.

[Jblade]

I felt DC was really good, the only issue is that they went overboard with map size in some regards. I don't mind large maps of course but typically 3DR-style maps don't actually take a long time to complete; you can tell they refined that aspect of the maps with Life's a beach. Just the first map alone is so intricately connected and laid out.

[brullov]

 Striker, on 03 September 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

The textures are the same, but they have added bump/normal mapping to them. That's why it looks like that. It's noticeable in other shots as well.

It also explains lines "we made real 3D from 2.5D".

[PsychoGoatee]

 MetHy, on 03 September 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

Ah, but Life's A Beach isn't just a pack of mere usermaps. Though I guess a couple of maps in Duke It Out In DC, the least original ones, could be considered that, especially the subway one.
Levelord and A. Blum may have invented the formula, so they get all the dibs for that, but for me Robert Travis and Wieder perfected it in Life's A Beach.
Duke It Out In DC was the training ground, but you can see that they already had a higher grasp of the entire "DN3D level design scope" than the common usermapper.

I personally don't see that, but I think we're looking at it from different perspectives on what makes a good map. I wasn't saying the expansions are user maps, just that it was unexpected to me, since I think a lot of user maps are held in higher regard by fans than the Sunsoft expansions, or so it seems. But everybody digs different stuff. I guess since I've seen a lot of posts all over talking about the expansions being missing, I just didn't realize those addons had so many fans.

[Striker]

 Lunick, on 02 September 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

I'm gonna say no. Nerve is working on this port and with the Doom ports, they altered the original data files so Doom source ports had to be updated to use the data (or created patches to fix the wads) so I guess after the port is released, the EDuke32 team will have a look at getting it supported.

They didn't alter the format, so technically the ports could read it. If one loads nerve.wad as a PWad on top of the original Doom2.wad, it's very possible to play it on the likes of Boom or MBF. Their version of Doom2.wad was a little different, just missing a titlepic, the interpic was changed, and the medikits and stimpacks were changed. ZDoom just added additional functionality to work around the missing titlepic, and auto-loaded NERVE.WAD and renamed the map lumps on the fly so they don't overwrite the stock maps.

[Robman]

The oldskool names attached to this, is the draw for me.
Back in 96/97 ... Duke3d was "the shit" and I look forward to some new content created by the "originals"
Especially the Russian defector known as Levelord.