[Danukem]

Does anyone know about differences in the map format for World Tour? Or whether it will use CON scripting? (I'm assuming that if it does, it will be the pre-eduke commands).

[Fox]

Looking at the effect of the incinerator, it seems quite obvious that they are using regular CON code.

[X-Vector]

MetHy, on 15 September 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Like I said I don't think 20€ is too much for an entire new episode by the original level designers and composer, and it's probably not far off the equivalent price of something like Plutonium Pack of Caribbean Life in 1997, and I think I'll be buying the game just for that. Though I won't forget to write a thorough review.

The Plutonium Pak was released six months after Duke Nukem 3D; you can't compare it price wise to an expansion of a twenty year old game, especially with the abundance of currently available user maps and mods.
As far as I can tell the original price of DN: Megaton Edition was €10, with several temporary price reductions along the way (late last year I purchased a combo pack of Megaton and Shadow Warrior Redux on Steam for €2), so I'd say that would be a more reasonable amount to pay for World Tour.

[MetHy]

If the fact that it's 20 years old mattered for me I wouldn't be playing the game; and I'm talking about new content by some of the original devs here, which Megaton or Redux didn't have. I'd rather pay 20€ for a new DN3D episode by the original devs than 20€ for Shadow Warrior 2.

I get it, because it's an old game it should cost less, except here it's not old, it's new stuff I'll be paying for (don't care about what WT has to offer besides the new episode really).

Honestly, all the nitpicking I've given may have overshadowed the rest. I am excited about the new episode and I feel like it's a gift few fans ever have. It's as if Shinji dMikami was doing a new classic PS1 style Resident Evil game... or a new Nirvana album with newly written Cobain songs. It's not something that happens often.

[Kathy]

Captain Massive, on 15 September 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

All I see is complaints about those episodes missing, but lets honest.... does anyone even play those?

I havent played but maybe a level or 2 of those in all these years and I won't miss them.

And for those that played/liked them, do they really have any replay value left in them to cause such a fuss?

It's a bunch to do about nothing, if you ask me.

It's also about preservation. Having the game in full/definitive edition with official content in one package is great for the future. It was mistake removing it from sale. Now the only legally available Duke3d will be some revisionist version, albeit with "reunion" maps.

[Doom64hunter]

X-Vector, on 15 September 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

The Plutonium Pak was released six months after Duke Nukem 3D; you can't compare it price wise to an expansion of a twenty year old game, especially with the abundance of currently available user maps and mods.
As far as I can tell the original price of DN: Megaton Edition was €10, with several temporary price reductions along the way (late last year I purchased a combo pack of Megaton and Shadow Warrior Redux on Steam for €2), so I'd say that would be a more reasonable amount to pay for World Tour.

That is the absolute biggest problem I have with it.
Gearbox essentially took down a perfectly good release of the game, removed the three third party expansions, added a new official one with 8 levels and 8 new tracks of music + developer commentary, and is now selling this for twice the price as the previous release.
If we're talking in terms of quantity, that's a net negative. In terms of quality, we'll have to see how good the maps and the music really are, and whether they deserve a doubling of the previous price at the expense of all the third party expansions.

Also, I didn't mention the remaining features because in my opinion they don't really work as selling points.
The "True 3D renderer" doesn't really look good with all the overdone lights, and since polymer is free to use with eDuke, there's no need to go for the re-release anyways.
The re-recorded lines lack the feel of the original Duke, and in addition clash horribly with the old sounds, which actually speaks strongly against buying World Tour if it's not possible to switch to the old voice.

[Fox]

Doom64hunter, on 15 September 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

The "True 3D renderer" doesn't really look good with all the overdone lights, and since polymer is free to use with eDuke, there's no need to go for the re-release anyways.

Of course cloning the content made by fans long ago and hyping it like it's a revolutionary idea won't sound good for the public opinion.

[neoacix]

The point in my opinion: There is no selling point at all!
I don't give a shit about new music or levels or even a new episode at all!
Even the rerecordings of JSJ are bad.

There is just nothing I want to put my money in! Period!
The only thing which I'd like to have is multiplayer, but with price and restrictions in mind, sorry, won't happen!

There are so many mappers and creative souls out there, creating new maps, mods and stuff for this game and don't earn any cent whatsoever by doing it.
And these people spend a lot more time in creating stuff, then payed "Professionals", which didn't even cared about the game the last decade.
So why, WHY? should I pay a company for making something, WE allready made?

New maps? There are plenty!
New weapons and stuff? There are also plenty!
New MIDI music? RLY?

Fuck it!
Sorry TX, but fuck it!

I rather spend my money directly to you Eduke32 devs for working on multplayer then to Gearbox.

[PsychoGoatee]

neoacix, on 15 September 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

I rather spend my money directly to you Eduke32 devs for working on multplayer then to Gearbox.

Could always do both? (I have)

And keep in mind, even if you dislike the publisher, this selling well would be nice for Allen Blum, Levelord, and Lee Jackson, if only for future job prospects. Can't hurt anyway. Honest question, were you aware they made the new episode when you made this post? Because the post doesn't make sense in that context.

By the way, Lee Jackson's new music isn't midi, since you seem to mention new midi in a negative way.

[Hendricks266]

Fox, on 15 September 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

Of course cloning the content made by fans long ago and hyping it like it's a revolutionary idea won't sound good for the public opinion.

On the other hand, public opinion won't care if Megaton is any example. It was advertised as having "upgraded graphics", and it sold.

[neoacix]

PsychoGoatee, on 15 September 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

Could always do both? (I have)

I don't have money to waste. Maybe you got, then nice for you, but I'll have to rethink every cent I spend.

Quote

And keep in mind, even if you dislike the publisher, this selling well would be nice for Allen Blum, Levelord, and Lee Jackson, if only for future job prospects. Can't hurt anyway. Honest question, were you aware they made the new episode when you made this post? Because the post doesn't make sense in that context.

Yeah I'm aware and what's your point? Seriously, are you even aware that there are so many great maps and mods which are fare better then any thing these guys ever delivered in there live for FREE? And nobody pays anything to this mappers and modders!
Maybe this new Episode is real good, okay, but frankly I don't care!

Quote

By the way, Lee Jackson's new music isn't midi, since you seem to mention new midi in a negative way.

To be honest, I don't care about music in the game either.
Since you can put any music you want in this game, or just mute the music and listen some other....

Maybe this should be posted in the unpopular opinion thread, but that's just my opinion.

[PsychoGoatee]

neoacix, on 15 September 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Yeah I'm aware and what's your point? Seriously, are you even aware that there are so many great maps and mods which are fare better then any thing these guys ever delivered in there live for FREE? And nobody pays anything to this mappers and modders!
Maybe this new Episode is real good, okay, but frankly I don't care!

Well, you said this is made by "professionals" in a disparaging way, and you even downplayed the radness of new music by Lee Jackson. You seem to just not appreciate some stuff that in my opinion a Duke fan ought to appreciate. Just my opinion.

I've seen the user maps thing mentioned before, I've made maps myself. I don't see the point there. Free good stuff existing doesn't mean key people who made Duke 3D making a new Duke 3D episode isn't cool. It may not interest you (and you could always wait for a sale if it's all money related), but I don't understand why you're particularly negative on the subject.

[neoacix]

PsychoGoatee, on 15 September 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

Well, you said this is made by "professionals" in a disparaging way, and you even downplayed the radness of new music by Lee Jackson. You seem to just not appreciate some stuff that in my opinion a Duke fan ought to appreciate. Just my opinion.

I've seen the user maps thing mentioned before, I've made maps myself. I don't see the point there. Free good stuff existing doesn't mean key people who made Duke 3D making a new Duke 3D episode isn't cool. It may not interest you (and you could always wait for a sale if it's all money related), but I don't understand why you're particularly negative on the subject.

Yeah, I'm not a fanboy who like everything without a doubt comming from some names. That's for sure!
And all I was saying: There is no selling point for me.

If you like the new stuff, then buy it! But I don't see any reason to buy it.

[PsychoGoatee]

Your logic for not seeing any reason to buy it is pure nonsense though, to be fair. Can you explain why you have to be an undiscerning fanboy to be interested in new levels by Blum and Levelord, scored by Lee Jackson?

Your only point is that lots of free levels exist. Ok. We all know that. And?

[neoacix]

PsychoGoatee, on 15 September 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

You're logic for not seeing any reason to buy it is pure nonsense though, to be fair. Can you explain why you have to be an undiscerning fanboy to be interested in new levels by Blum and Levelord, scored by Lee Jackson?

Fine, we can just agree to have different opinions.

[PsychoGoatee]

Sounds good. And for the record, if I think the new episode isn't good, I'll say so.

[MetHy]

neoacix, on 15 September 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

New maps? There are plenty!
[...]
New MIDI music? RLY?

Plenty of new maps by the original level designers, really? Tell where so I can jump on it.

New musics are by Lee Jackson and he himself said they weren't midi files.

There is a lot to complain about with this re-release, but maps and musics isn't one. That's the only thing they got right (not saying the new maps and musics are good, we can't know that yet obviously, but I'm saying they couldn't have been done in a more appropriate way).

[Tea Monster]

MetHy, on 16 September 2016 - 01:22 AM, said:

Plenty of new maps by the original level designers, really? Tell where so I can jump on it.

New musics are by Lee Jackson and he himself said they weren't midi files.

There is a lot to complain about with this re-release, but maps and musics isn't one. That's the only thing they got right (not saying the new maps and musics are good, we can't know that yet obviously, but I'm saying they couldn't have been done in a more appropriate way).

No no no! You have to appear to be one of the 'cool kids' and start hating on it!

[Lunick]

Yeah, you have to make edgy forum posts like these guys

[BoowHow]

Lunick, on 16 September 2016 - 03:58 AM, said:

Yeah, you have to make edgy forum posts like these guys

Seems like these guys have to much freetime or they found something new to hate...

[Micky C]

Lunick, on 15 September 2016 - 02:51 AM, said:

http://steamcommunit...42145688945359/



Oh my sides

I'm sold. All future episodes of the AMC TC will be exclusively for WT. I'll place dynamic lights in there that won't be able to run in eduke32 because WT has an advanced renderer, and I look forward to utilizing the extensive scripting capabilities.

TerminX, on 15 September 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

Eh, they're pretty cool levels. $20 is, what, shitty fast food dinner for 2? Even as someone who is habitually broke, that's not a lot of money. I definitely understand the "this has less stuff than Megaton, why does it cost more?" argument, but you have to take into account the fact that a team had to be hired to actually create the new content. The cost to get something like Megaton to market is much lower.

True, but how much money Gearbox initially invested in the new content is fairly irrelevant. It's the end product that counts. In most circumstances your logic would be bullet proof, except for the fact that this game has been released so many times over the years. Regardless of how much money Gearbox put in, they need to justify the purchase to the end user. The question in my mind is more or less "are the 8 new levels enough to justify the $20 price tag"? Gearbox may be tooting the graphics and new voices but there's only so much icing you can put on an otherwise stale cake.


Maybe this would appeal more to the wider gaming community than duke fan specifically? I don't know... all I know is that we're getting release after quality release of user content, such as Merlijn's Shaky Grounds a few days ago that must be at least as good as the levels in WT.

[MetHy]

Micky C, on 16 September 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

Gearbox may be tooting the graphics and new voices but there's only so much icing you can put on an otherwise stale cake.

Actually in all interviews and stuff, they claim that everything was made with "the old assets" or "mostly the old assets". They don't advertise on the new art and voices at all. Only thing is the new enemy and weapon in the game's store page.

Quote

all I know is that we're getting release after quality release of user content, such as Merlijn's Shaky Grounds a few days ago that must be at least as good as the levels in WT.

Yeah usermaps can be great, but they're an entire different category. I don't know why so few people see that.

[Micky C]

By graphics I was referring to the renderer. I don't think anyone's creaming their pants for the new art The new voices from Jon St John are actually a pretty big part of the trailer though.



Yeah user maps tend to have a different feel to the original game I'll give you that. That doesn't mean they're not good though. Even excluding all the crap you'll probably never be able to work your way through all the good stuff in one lifetime. Or if you do, you need to get out of the house more .

It's fine if you want to by it just for the episode, you're clearly passionate about it, and I can see your point of view. I'll be getting WT myself, but not before 1: reading reviews on the new levels, and 2: at least a 50% off sale, although I may hold out for 66% or more since I'm in no rush.
I'm fairly sure that Gearbox are pulling an Age of Mythology, where they're specifically targeting the steam sales, and that the initial price is jacked up so high that they'll still make a killing despite moderate discounts.

[Kathy]

I understood Neoacix's point as there hadn't been any hunger for new levels from original creators. Sure, it would have been cool thing were they ever to do it, but not commercially. At this point better maps would have been made by community guys for lesser money. 20 years later it doesn't matter if Blum and Levelord were any good in Duke3d, only their presence does.

[PsychoGoatee]

It appeals to some, I'm excited, I don't get ideas such as saying it "doesn't matter", a bit subjective. I'm happy to pay to play it myself.

[neoacix]

MetHy, on 16 September 2016 - 04:36 AM, said:

Yeah usermaps can be great, but they're an entire different category. I don't know why so few people see that.

So which different category is it?
I can tell you:

Professionals are getting payed.
Community does not.
Period.

Edit: Btw, I don't hate, I just don't see the selling point....

[DNSkill]

A lot of people earlier were asking about the red cross thing. From what I remember, Red Cross doesn't want their logo associated with games anymore. Some developers have chosen to not use the symbol anymore. Honestly I don't see why they don't just change the red cross to a different color, instead of changing the icon entirely. Or even remove the logo and make them say AID or something like that.

[Tea Monster]

The new renderer - meh. The lighting is cool to have, but I don't think that 34 pixel sprites work well with normal mapping. I might change my mind when playing it, but at the moment It's sort of a whole lot of 'why have they done this?' I'd much rather they hit the archives and see what they could improve the resolution of. Even if it was only certain sprites - like the case with Doom BFG - it can make a world of difference. With what it must have cost them to re-engineer polymer, it would probably have cost them the same amount of money to produce and they would have got much better results. The idea that this is some kind of remaster is a joke.

The lack of the other packages: It was really nice to have them in one spot. To be honest, I could never bring myself to play past the first level of DC - I don't know if it gets more exciting after that or not. Caribbean was better, but still, nothing like the original levels.The fact that they aren't included in this is annoying, but nothing really bad.

I'm hoping that the networking is going to be better than Megaton. I don't know if it was the predictive networking or the control system or both, but playing deathmatch was a nightmare. I should have been playing a shed-load of MP Duke, but I couldn't bear the controls and lag. DM and COOP should be fun, not a chore. I'm hoping that they bring that back to Duke.

The reason I pre-ordered is that they got Levelord, Blum and Jackson back to make a new episode of Duke. I can't believe that there is any debate about this being a wonderful thing. If they even hinted at this a year or so ago, you guys would have dismissed it as a wild pipe-dream. 'Never gonna happen, not never'. Well it is and I'm excited. I'll quite happily put my hand up and declare myself to be a Levelord fanboy.

[Lunick]

I don't think "Never gonna happen, not never" is something people would have thought here considering other developers over the past year or so have slowly been returning to their old games and map for them again.

[t800]

Tea Monster, on 17 September 2016 - 12:06 AM, said:

Even if it was only certain sprites - like the case with Doom BFG - it can make a world of difference.

What sprites were improved in Doom BFG?