[NightFright]

That's the spirit! I also had downloaded the original 3.0 release before. They won't succeed in making this just disappear like that. I think everybody has the right to decide what's right for them and what isn't.

Just to be clear: I have no problem with that Heit issue getting fixed/sorted out/whatever, either. If that offends people, it's ok to do something about it. However, things like difficulty names or a single (!) death animation frame where the tits of a boss are visible... if this falls in the same or even similar category, it starts getting kinda weird.

They just closed the BoA thread over at Doomworld. Dunno if that's the solution, but at least it also puts an end to that SJW parade. For now at least.

[Aristotle Gumball]

 ReaperAA, on 09 June 2021 - 10:33 AM, said:

Something that was completely unnecessary and done without the permission of said person. Not to mention, its the person who made the source port (ZDoom) that Tormentor and co. used to create their artistic vision.

Yeah, should've asked the person if they consented to being made fun of. (Have they even responded? Seems like everyone is angry on their behalf). Dude, removing this content doesn't fix anything. Everyone already knows the creator(s) as assholes - now just own it and move on. The only people this appeases is those who will never even play the mod. Everyone else just thinks Torm and co are a bunch of weak cunts, which they evidently are. Same thing that happened with Ion Fury, although in Voidpoints case I forgive them because it was an original IP at risk and hey, someone had to be the first to screw up.

[NightFright]

Imagine Heit posted now something like: "Dunno what you guys are all talking about, I think it's fun and I am ok with it." Would make a whole bunch of people look really stupid all of a sudden. I'd almost be willing to pay for watching that happen.

[Morpheus Kitami]

A lot of the issues come off to me like things they should have expected to be controversial, so why are they bothering now? But judging by how Torm is talking about it, it seems like his concerns are more about running afoul of German law than anything else. I have no idea if that's something he should be worrying about, but uh...shouldn't he have thought of that beforehand? Its not exactly news that Germany isn't okay with video games that depict Nazis.

[Ninety-Six]

i cant help but be reminded many pages back when rolleyes the wolf complained about nazis having "slick uniforms" that were literally the ones from history


if we depict what they were like in history then that means we cant repeat it and thats obviously not what you want is it doomworld

you want them back

[The Battlelord]

 NightFright, on 09 June 2021 - 12:55 PM, said:

That's the spirit! I also had downloaded the original 3.0 release before. They won't succeed in making this just disappear like that. I think everybody has the right to decide what's right for them and what isn't.

This.


Anybody has the feeling to live ine 1600s like sometime? "They are heretics! They use sorcery! Burn'em burn'em!" Forcing people to think and do what the "big groups" says.

Welcome in 2021s, this retardness shit still happens under new points of view.

[jkas789]

My thoughts about the removal of stuff copied and pasted from the Outhouse Thread, for those who don't like it over there:

Quote

I think (and this is my dumb opinion) that as most people like to do now a days, someone/s may have added the mod into their resume and it was done to cover their asses and mitigate the backlash. If you
go check the BoA page you can clearly see that some guys added their real names and faces to this project.

People in the Bethesda modding community do it, I am not surprised that parlor modding also exists in Doom, with all the risks that entails.

Quote

it seems like his concerns are more about running afoul of German law than anything else.

I did see people in the Doomworld thread posting that he could run afoul of the law almost as if they were warning him they would snitch. Which I would not be surprised, because it is Doomworld.

Quote

Yeah, should've asked the person if they consented to being made fun of.

What a world we live now a days, were we can't laugh at someone for whatever fucking reason. Be it their politics,sexuality, religion, identity etc. You can laugh of the rightoids, but we can't laugh of the leftards. You can make jokes of the cis gendered white male, but you will be hanged on the altar of social media if you dare make a joke about the alphabet group. You can make a series about gay Jesus and joke about how catholic priests are diddling kids but if joke about how the prophet Muhammed was a pedo crazy and all his followers makes gays fly you get a fatwa.

Remember the good old days were nothing was sacred, and if you did not like it you just did not consume it? Comedy truly is dead.

[Danukem]

 Morpheus Kitami, on 09 June 2021 - 02:16 PM, said:

A lot of the issues come off to me like things they should have expected to be controversial, so why are they bothering now? But judging by how Torm is talking about it, it seems like his concerns are more about running afoul of German law than anything else. I have no idea if that's something he should be worrying about, but uh...shouldn't he have thought of that beforehand? Its not exactly news that Germany isn't okay with video games that depict Nazis.

It's fair to make this criticism as long as we are careful not to victim blame. It was unwise for Torm to include some of that content, but that doesn't mean it was morally wrong to do so. For me it is analogous to a vulnerable person choosing to go out at night in a neighborhood full of predators. I would advise that person not to go out at that time, or to take friends with them or to take other precautions. If the person goes out anyway, it's an unwise decision. But, if they are attacked, the moral blame still lies squarely on the shoulders of the attackers, not on the victim. And yes, he is a victim in this at least when it comes to being banned at Doomworld.

[jkas789]

So they have posted an excuse on Realm 667. I've already posted it on the outhouse thread so to avoid cluttering I'll post only the link to Realms 667. It's on the front page, you can't miss it.

What a fucking shit show this is, and what a letdown. This part specially kills me:

Quote

As for the camp, we talked about it for a long time in the team. We compared the reasons for and against an operation in a prison camp. How much authenticity is justified in the context of an entertainment project? After much deliberation, we decided on the execution that could be seen in version 3.0, a realistic portrayal of the atmosphere, without discriminating and hurting people, population groups or origins, and still showing the historical background in its entirety - because the Second World War did not only consist of glorious battlefields and heroic wars, but also of terrifying and terrible places. Obviously, however, we did not succeed to perfection, which is why reworking is now imperative here.

Fuck off mate, fuck Doomworld and their overly sensitive gay mods. Fuck Not Jabba, specially.

[Morpheus Kitami]

 Danukem, on 09 June 2021 - 03:22 PM, said:

It's fair to make this criticism as long as we are careful not to victim blame. It was unwise for Torm to include some of that content, but that doesn't mean it was morally wrong to do so. For me it is analogous to a vulnerable person choosing to go out at night in a neighborhood full of predators. I would advise that person not to go out at that time, or to take friends with them or to take other precautions. If the person goes out anyway, it's an unwise decision. But, if they are attacked, the moral blame still lies squarely on the shoulders of the attackers, not on the victim. And yes, he is a victim in this at least when it comes to being banned at Doomworld.

I agree, for the most part. They're definitely playing onto Torm's worst fears. But the thing is, Torm left himself open to that in a way. This isn't the first time a member of his team got attacked by awful people in an utterly awful way...and that was before things in politics turned into the nightmare it is now. So its not something he had no idea would happen. It was a very real threat that actually happened to one of his associates and probably popped up at some point. I do not think poorly of Torm for folding, but I do think he should have planned out a defense. At least against the possibility of getting arrested by the German government.

[Phredreeke]

Screenshoted before Torm deletes this too

[NightFright]

You just can't make it right to anybody. Jews as zombies are bad, but then removing all references is bad, too. My God, what's wrong with these guys? Why does it have to become political now? Facepalm.

I guess you just can't do WW2 mods any more according to Doomworld. But well, that's what happens these days when you try to tackle sensitive topics. Artistic liberties are swept aside and people just feel butthurt.

[Ninety-Six]

Removing those references is far worse than keeping them in. Keeping them in is a reminder of the atrocities committed. Erasing them is revisionist.

[NightFright]

As I said before, an option to just skip the level would probably be the best approach. You don't have to change anything, you are not bending the knee to the SJWs, keep your artistic vision intact and nobody is forced to experience anything they don't want to. It could be that simple. Wherever they go from here, it's no use any more, the project has been nuked.

[Danukem]

 NightFright, on 09 June 2021 - 10:28 PM, said:

You just can't make it right to anybody. Jews as zombies are bad, but then removing all references is bad, too. My God, what's wrong with these guys? Why does it have to become political now? Facepalm.

Once you accept the principle that it is wrong to offend people, then everything you do becomes political by necessity. Creation is no longer art, it is a calculation. Few things are more pathetic than the politician who tries to please everyone, and by doing so pleases no one. And yet this is the miserable state that the artist is reduced to in a world where political sensibilities are the currency of creation.

[The Battlelord]

Hi, these are FatTaz and FatTaj, friendly called: Fatazz, Fatass, Fatso, Fatlord (i always thought about a Boss with this name lol), Sumolord, Boiler, Bus-arse, Concrete Mixer etc......




Hence people with overweight problems (which i suppose there is a huuuuge quantity of them out there) should feel offended and complain about these!?


BTW, if we search more i believe there are more links to get the "old" version: Wolfenstein - BoA v3.0

[Aristotle Gumball]

#CancelTheMancubus

[ReaperAA]

 jkas789, on 09 June 2021 - 03:20 PM, said:

What a world we live now a days, were we can't laugh at someone for whatever fucking reason. Be it their politics,sexuality, religion, identity etc. You can laugh of the rightoids, but we can't laugh of the leftards. You can make jokes of the cis gendered white male, but you will be hanged on the altar of social media if you dare make a joke about the alphabet group. You can make a series about gay Jesus and joke about how catholic priests are diddling kids but if joke about how the prophet Muhammed was a pedo crazy and all his followers makes gays fly you get a fatwa.

To be fair, I am firmly against art that tries to ridicule or make fun of any group, irrespective of who they are, where white or black, cis males or alphabet group, Christians or Muslims.

Stuff like holocaust victims turned into zombies that we kill in BoA is something that is a bit distasteful for me, but I don't see a big issue in keeping historical stuff like genocide, concentration camp or even Dr. Mengele (I mean Hitler himself is a part of Wolf3D and BoA). I believe that as long it isn't anti-semitic, there isn't a huge need to remove stuff from BoA.

[Ninety-Six]

 The Battlelord, on 10 June 2021 - 01:23 AM, said:

Hence people with overweight problems (which i suppose there is a huuuuge quantity of them out there) should feel offended and complain about these!?

Oh, I'm pretty sure there are loud-mouthed ones that do exactly that. You just won't hear them complain about the Mancubus over at BitchWorld because Doom is their sacred cow.


And of course, for the literal millions of fat people that couldn't care less, their opinion doesn't count. We live in a world where "the offended is always right" no matter how absurd their offense is, or if other people in that group (or, equally common, people in the group that they aren't but feel the need to "protect" them anyway).

 ReaperAA, on 10 June 2021 - 02:22 AM, said:

To be fair, I am firmly against art that tries to ridicule or make fun of any group, irrespective of who they are, where white or black, cis males or alphabet group, Christians or Muslims.

Which is a fine opinion, though in this particular case I actually believe that Tormentor wasn't aware of Heit's transition. Heit just kinda went "k im done" and vanished from the community all the way back in like 2016? And only very recently (as of that point) started going by Marisa. Hell I'm pretty sure I wasn't aware of it until they were mentioned in the Espi award and I was confused for a while because I had no idea who "Marisa" was. Combine that with Tormentor's rather lack of presence, usually showing up just to promote whatever project he's working on, it's perfectly understandable that he wouldn't have been aware of the change.

Especially with how long BoA has been in development. Old joke that could have been easily forgotten was even in there.


But leave it to Doomworld to throw a bitchfit about it anyway, assuming malice because god forbid someone doesn't keep tabs on an already-elusive member 24/7. Clearly only rational and reasonable people would stalk someone who left the community years ago to make sure their ancient-ass joke was up to date.

Call concern? Whatever. Use it to crucify the team more? Go to hell, Doomworld. And especially Not Jabba.

[NightFright]

Doom: Against fat people (or demons, who cares), usage of satanic symbols --> ban the game
Duke3D: Sexist --> be gone
Shadow Warrior: See Duke3D
Blood: Discriminates cultists --> make it go away
Wolfenstein: Jews handled inappropriately (or not at all, both are bad), Nazi propaganda, wrong depicturing of women etc --> get rid of it

We are developing backwards, basically. Reminds me of what the German media authorities did with "violent" and "dangerous" games in the late 90s. Just look at everything with a huge magnification glass and eventually you will find something someone may find offensive.

[Ninety-Six]

 NightFright, on 10 June 2021 - 02:47 AM, said:

Doom: Against fat people (or demons, who cares), usage of satanic symbols --> ban the game
Duke3D: Sexist --> be gone
Shadow Warrior: See Duke3D
Blood: Discriminates cultists --> make it go away
Wolfenstein: Jews handled inappropriately (or not at all, both are bad), Nazi propaganda, wrong depicturing of women etc --> get rid of it

We are developing backwards, basically. Reminds me of what the German media authorities did with "violent" and "dangerous" games in the late 90s. Just look at everything with a huge magnification glass and eventually you will find something someone may find offensive.

Morality police are just the worst kind of people, straight-up. Because they can and will find something wrong if they want to. And they always want to. It gives them a cheap sense of superiority to "educate" everyone else.


So many evils are committed under the guise of "for their own good."

[jkas789]

 ReaperAA, on 10 June 2021 - 02:22 AM, said:

To be fair, I am firmly against art that tries to ridicule or make fun of any group, irrespective of who they are, where white or black, cis males or alphabet group, Christians or Muslims.

That is fair. I on the other hand, believe on mocking anyone. Stereotypes exists for a reason. Take me for instance, I'm a university graduated mexican who is not doing so bad in life economically speaking, yet I use a sombrero and a zarape everyday. Also I drink bacanora (tequila's better cousin) like corridos and am a potty mouth who makes fun of everyone and their mother but also respects his mother, his religion and specially his tacos. I'm basically a walking stereotype.

Now I'm not pro antisemitic sutff, like kill all the jews and shit. But I do enjoy race jokes, specially mexican race jokes. The ones about how many chilangos it takes to cross the US border and how many degrees of separation does a inbred norteño has on his genealogy come to mind. Again stereotypes exists for a reason, and I like my freedom of speech.

Thankfully we can agree to disagree. Because that is what the cool kids do. Unlike Doomworld, who suck hairy balls.

[Phredreeke]

I need to figure out what the taco equivalent of pineapple on pizza is

[Aleks]

 ReaperAA, on 10 June 2021 - 02:22 AM, said:

To be fair, I am firmly against art that tries to ridicule or make fun of any group, irrespective of who they are, where white or black, cis males or alphabet group, Christians or Muslims.

Stuff like holocaust victims turned into zombies that we kill in BoA is something that is a bit distasteful for me, but I don't see a big issue in keeping historical stuff like genocide, concentration camp or even Dr. Mengele (I mean Hitler himself is a part of Wolf3D and BoA). I believe that as long it isn't anti-semitic, there isn't a huge need to remove stuff from BoA.

What about X-Men movies (perhaps comics as well) depicting Magneto in his youth as Jewish concentration camp prisoner trained by the nazis as a weapon due to his mutant powers? Personally, I find ridiculous money grabs with naive and absurd plots that somehow try to imitate the historical truth (like "The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas") to be more disrespectful towards the Holocaust victims than works of fiction that base upon the gruesome reality/historical truth and don't hide it, but are obviously made for entertainment purposes without pretending to be much else - using the historical canvas as the backgrounds of the actual story.

Quote

I need to figure out what the taco equivalent of pineapple on pizza is

Deep fried avocado.

[jkas789]

Quote

I need to figure out what the taco equivalent of pineapple on pizza is

Quote

Deep fried avocado.

Deep fried avocados are the modern man's greatest sin. I honestly hate the person (probably a fucking gringo, fucking degenerates) who came up with this and I promise that I will find him, and I will murder him in the most horrible of ways. I will burn his fields, end his line and take his wife.

Because fuck deep fried avocados.



Also, the proper name is aguacate. That is the spanish name.

[ReaperAA]

 Ninety-Six, on 10 June 2021 - 02:44 AM, said:

Which is a fine opinion, though in this particular case I actually believe that Tormentor wasn't aware of Heit's transition. Heit just kinda went "k im done" and vanished from the community all the way back in like 2016? And only very recently (as of that point) started going by Marisa. Hell I'm pretty sure I wasn't aware of it until they were mentioned in the Espi award and I was confused for a while because I had no idea who "Marisa" was. Combine that with Tormentor's rather lack of presence, usually showing up just to promote whatever project he's working on, it's perfectly understandable that he wouldn't have been aware of the change.

Especially with how long BoA has been in development. Old joke that could have been easily forgotten was even in there.

Yeah that seems most likely what happened. Heit left ZDoom development around early 2017 and only in the same year started going by the name Marisa. I don't think there was any malice per se and most likely just Torm not being aware of it.

[NightFright]

I cannot see any bad intentions in the way they did episode 3 in general. No idea how they handled playtesters, but there's little wrong with trying to establish a historically "accurate" setting (zombies and all that stuff aside). They might have taken it over the top in some cases, OK. Still, no reason to rework the whole thing fundamentally.

[SonicB00M]

I know you it's important to let creators decide what is best for their mod, but seriously... who thought that having concentration camp victims rise from their (mass)graves and attacking the player would be fun gameplay that everyone would enjoy? There is stuff that's just bad taste and you can put that into your little edgy mods but not if you want endorsements from guys like John Romero.

[Phredreeke]

[NightFright]