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XL engine will supports Shadow Warrior(Classic).  "It's NOT dead."

User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#61

View PostHendricks266, on 20 February 2016 - 12:35 PM, said:

Stephen Kick jumped the gun in the name of free publicity when he announced Powerslave in that one interview. They were not able to secure the rights.

You forget that Night Dive is concerned with exactly one thing: profit. They are suits. A game in their hands is a game lost to the world of business and a quick buck.

I see.

Believe me I don't. Otherwise I wouldn't say what I said above. I mean it was obvious who they are since the beginning. All what they can do is use community works and release those as paid products. If you guys don't know, they used SS2Tool without permission for their System Shock 2 release which was made by guess whom.
Spoiler

Maybe at least they pay Kaiser and paid the guy who ported first System Shock to Windows, but I honestly really really doubt. And we all know how would they handle Powerslave as well.

Seriously, guys, it's like you think I'm their fan or something despite what I said about them above. I know who they are.

All what I need is source code and obviously that would be the best thing if owners released PS1 and DOS codes to the community without corporate's help. Would be nice if you didn't abandon the idea. I'd like it to be found.

Have to say though that it's funny to know that you tried to reach them and how they responded. What a childish behavior. But at least they didn't steal it without your permission like they did with SS2Tool.

This post has been edited by Takehiko: 20 February 2016 - 01:23 PM

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User is offline   LkMax 

#62

View PostTerminX, on 20 February 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

I've considered Night Dive to be a joke ever since I saw how they handled their WW2GI release on Steam. We were in talks for them to license EDuke32, but they didn't want to pay what we were asking, so they opted to just stop communicating but use EDuke32 to take all of their Steam screenshots and record their trailer, while shipping their customers the original DOS version instead. They're a bunch of losers who just want to make money from the work of actual developers.

What? That's false advertising on top of a dick move, if someone cared enought they could even be sued (or at least they should) for showing promotional material not consistent with delivered product.

View PostTakehiko, on 20 February 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

Seriously, guys, it's like you think I'm their fan or something despite what I said about them above. I know who they are.

I didn't, it's very unfortunate, I liked the work "they" were doing to restore old games.

This post has been edited by LkMax: 20 February 2016 - 01:36 PM

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#63

View PostLkMax, on 20 February 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

What? That's false advertising on top of a dick move, if someone cared enought they could even be sued (or at least they should) for showing promotional material not consistent with delivered product.

A lot of publishers can get away with it though. My most favorite one is Gearbox.

View PostLkMax, on 20 February 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

I didn't, it's very unfortunate, I liked the work "they" were doing to restore old games.

Welcome to the club.

This post has been edited by Takehiko: 20 February 2016 - 02:13 PM

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User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#64

View PostHendricks266, on 20 February 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

For what definition of "care"? Care to make money off of it.

Turok EX is a by-sight recreation of the game that only has ripped assets (the easy part of reverse engineering), and it's disgusting that they're selling it as The Real Thing.


This is the kind of "care" Powerslave deserves.


Turok EX is more than just by sight, the game's behavior/mechanics were reverse-engineered last time I checked. In that respect, the game is pretty much spot on. What does it matter if it's not in the exact same container format for the assets?

This post has been edited by StrikerMan780: 20 February 2016 - 02:33 PM

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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #65

Kaiser doesn't reverse-engineer AI. Close to release Night Dive got the original Turok source and he used that for the AI.
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User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#66

If he got the source, then I suppose that's a good thing. I imagine he would have done something about it if the source wasn't available.

But be the situation as it may, there's no doubt of the quality of the work he's done, regardless. Powerslave EX, for example... being someone who loved Powerslave on the PSX back in the day, and having played it again recently, I couldn't tell the difference between EX and the original in any major aspects. The only thing, which was patched in 1.1, was that gravity was a little too fast. Doom 64 EX, is spot-on to it's source material, even replicating it's bugs.
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#67

I'm gonna keep supporting Night Dive with my money because I like what they're doing by giving us things that are normally lost to time. Also they got System Shock to a point where we can finally get a 3rd game and a cool remake of SS1.
Honestly who cares how the fucking thing is made. if it works it works, stickler 'authenticity' dorks be damned.
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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #68

View PostCarl Winslow, on 20 February 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

Honestly who cares how the fucking thing is made.

Peasant. :dukeaffirmative:
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#69

View PostCarl Winslow, on 20 February 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

I'm gonna keep supporting Night Dive with my money because I like what they're doing by giving us things that are normally lost to time. Also they got System Shock to a point where we can finally get a 3rd game and a cool remake of SS1.
Honestly who cares how the fucking thing is made. if it works it works, stickler 'authenticity' dorks be damned.

It seems you don't understand why Night Dive obtaining an IP is a bad thing.
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#70

Apparently I don't understand either; why would that be bad?
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#71

Apparently it's bad to have something that works on modern systems if it's not in the totally perfect way. (nevermind that plenty of people are happily enjoying these things without real fuss.)

This post has been edited by Carl Winslow: 20 February 2016 - 09:14 PM

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User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#72

Probably because of their poor ethics, false advertising, and the fact that they are legal suits first and foremost, not developers... likely meaning we'll never see the source or any further updates that aren't through them, considering they're only interested in profit off of peoples' nostalgia, and not the games themselves. It's a shitty situation, because while I like what's been released under them, it's hard to support them as a publisher.

This post has been edited by StrikerMan780: 20 February 2016 - 09:50 PM

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User is offline   Sixty Four 

  • Turok Nukem

#73

Who's to say the source of Turok would never release from Night Dive I have some faith myself. Sure they hold it for now and I don't blame them for knowing what they have, its valuable. Turok is a classic and many fans including myself have tried finding the source before. Even some fans have tried since before you even heard of me. Its alive that's all that matters to a dying classic breed. At least we got a game that is better then the original x10 the work is already done no point in re doing it Turok ex started in 2011 and is perfect. Were doing things that were never imaginable in the original. They even applied an update that implemented another old bug so now all of the old bugs are in the game. There is still some new things coming for it why release the source? Tell me who else would take the time to do anything for Turok other then Kaiser? I don't think I could name anyone else. Why release now when there is so many features coming not to mention Turok 2? I am not sure about all of that other stuff sounds weird but when it comes to Turok I am a 100% satisfied die hard fan of the n64 version from 97. To my knowledge they don't attempt to sell it as a source port. Here is a quote from Night Dive before it released.

"But these won't be simple re-releases. Right now, we're in the middle of giving the games a completely brand new engine that will work great on modern operating systems. "

You may think there just all about the money but I will tell you that perspective was completely removed from any of my thoughts when I was allowed to do testing on the Turoks. That right there let me know they do care and pay attention..alot of attention. Not to mention there lead quality assurance guy gathered more hours then me on the game and it isn't even his favorite game. The guys do care it just so happens money matters when your paying for things like Turok source ports do you guys think it was free? I have a very strong feeling it was not.
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User is offline   MetHy 

#74

View PostCarl Winslow, on 20 February 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

I'm gonna keep supporting Night Dive with my money because I like what they're doing by giving us things that are normally lost to time. Also they got System Shock to a point where we can finally get a 3rd game and a cool remake of SS1.
Honestly who cares how the fucking thing is made. if it works it works, stickler 'authenticity' dorks be damned.


I am not an "authenticity dork". If I was I'd stricly be playing Doom with no mouselook and DN3D in DOS with a pentium 200, a CRT screen and one of those mouses that still have a ball.

But there is a limit I believe we all shouldn't cross, that is don't pretend to be playing game X if you're playing game Y which is made to look like game X.

Also that's the thing, so far we've only seen things which don't really work.

View PostCarl Winslow, on 20 February 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

Apparently it's bad to have something that works on modern systems if it's not in the totally perfect way. (nevermind that plenty of people are happily enjoying these things without real fuss.)


You're making it sound like they don't work on a modern system, but they already do.
Also this subject is often brought up on another forum I visit. Most people who play and enjoy BloodCM have never played Blood and are just looking to find a comfortable and troubleless way to play them on a modern system.
These people are clueless about the original game so they think they are playing Blood, only when they ask and we show them comparison between both games do they realize that even the basic zombie or shotgun do not behave at all like they should, rendering the entire gameplay balance and interest of Blood null.
I'm even seen people complain about "how shitty the behaviour of zombies was in Blood", while they were in fact talking about BloodCM, thinking there was no difference, and the behaviours they were talking about aren't in Blood.

It doesn't help that such projects call themselves "sourceport" or "close to sourceports" (what the hell does that even mean).

The differences with XL Engine might not be as extreme as with BloodCM or that old shitty recreation of Redneck Rampage in EDuke32, but I can not believe that there will be none unless proven otherwise by extremely competent people. Even professionals ports are off.

This post has been edited by MetHy: 21 February 2016 - 02:12 AM

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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#75

View PostMetHy, on 21 February 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

The differences with XL Engine might not be as extreme as with BloodCM or that old shitty recreation of Redneck Rampage in EDuke32, but I can not believe that there will be none unless proven otherwise by extremely competent people. Even professionals ports are off.

There's that video of Shadow Warrior running in XL Engine posted above. If you detect differences from how the original game works, I suppose it would be most useful to point them out to luciusDXL.

Hopefully footage from other supported games that use reverse-engineered code instead of source code will be available soon, so you and/or other competent people will be able to judge if the implementation is accurate or not.

From what I understand, reverse-engineering will guarantee 100% authentic recreation of gameplay mechanics. The XL Engine will only handle the integration of the resulting game code so that it runs on the host OS(s), which may or may not change certain aspects of how graphics are drawn or sound is played, but not the core gameplay.
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#76

View PostSixty Four, on 21 February 2016 - 12:09 AM, said:

Who's to say the source of Turok would never release from Night Dive I have some faith myself. Sure they hold it for now and I don't blame them for knowing what they have, its valuable.

Why not to contact them and ask if they going to release it for the community (and if you will, don't forget to ask about PC source too, do they have it?).
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