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Will the recent shutdown of 3D realms re-ignite the mod community?  "I hope so."

User is offline   Sean1978 

#1

Well, it's looking to be over.
I'd have to say that I'm not a hardcore gamer but HRP was one of the coolest things I had seen in a while when I discovered it last year. I'm thinking I'm going to re-install it and play through it again to make me feel a bit better about loosing "forever"

I'm wondering if the shutdown of 3D realms might re-ignite a spark in the modding community. I remember that some pretty promising projects ended with cease and desist letters from 3D realms, will anyone care about mods now?
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User is online   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #2

As far as I can remember, every project that received a cease and desist was an attempt to rip off Duke 3D and do it on another engine as a mod for someone else's game. I don't think 3DR ever shut down any Duke 3D mods or anything. Hopefully the community will pick up though, or at least not be set back by the loss of 3DR.
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User is offline   Sean1978 

#3

Quote

every project that received a cease and desist was an attempt to rip off Duke 3D and do it on another engine as a mod for someone else's game


I guess I was a bit vague. That's what I was talking about. Is it safe now to proceed with Duke 3D in another graphics engine.


on a side note:

Build was the only 3D engine that I ever learned how to designed levels for. I remember how fun it was for my friends and I to create levels after school (I was in high-school back then) and then dukematch it out on a LAN on the weekends in the levels we had made.
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User is online   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #4

View PostSean1978, on May 7 2009, 06:39 PM, said:

I guess I was a bit vague. That's what I was talking about. Is it safe now to proceed with Duke 3D in another graphics engine.


on a side note:

Build was the only 3D engine that I ever learned how to designed levels for. I remember how fun it was for my friends and I to create levels after school (I was in high-school back then) and then dukematch it out on a LAN on the weekends in the levels we had made.

No, to hell with that. Duke should stay on Build. The new Polymer renderer is a fully capable modern graphics engine and there is no reason to tempt legal smackdown once again by trying to make some stupid mod for another game. :lol:
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User is offline   Sean1978 

#5

View PostTX, on May 7 2009, 06:46 PM, said:

No, to hell with that. Duke should stay on Build. The new Polymer renderer is a fully capable modern graphics engine and there is no reason to tempt legal smackdown once again by trying to make some stupid mod for another game. :lol:



I'm sure the new Polymer renderer is great, I'm going to look at it this weekend.


Can there be a "legal smackdown" if the company is defunked?
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#6

View PostSean1978, on May 7 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

I'm sure the new Polymer renderer is great, I'm going to look at it this weekend.


Can there be a "legal smackdown" if the company is defunked?


Yes, because the rights will be sold off. In fact they will probably transfer into the hands of Apogee.
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User is offline   Reaper_Man 

  • Once and Future King

#7

Despite popular belief, it's pretty uncommon for IP to become public domain or whatever. Somebody somewhere with money cares and buys it.
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User is offline   Hudson 

  • Meat Popsicle

#8

Indeed, the greatest present we were given was the source code. Duke3d shall live on.
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#9

The modding community has been going strong, it doesn't need to be re-ignited. There are more new levels and mods released for Duke 3D than there are for most games a fraction of its age.

As a modder, what I would like to see is more players.

As for developing Duke Nukem content for other game engines: I have a hunch that the likelihood of someone actually being taken to court for doing that is pretty small. A cease and desist letter is one thing, but are the owners of the IP willing to incur the legal costs of a lawsuit? I doubt it. And I don't think that anything has changed in that respect due to 3DR's demise.

However, I really don't see the point of putting Duke on another engine. EDuke32 with the Polymer renderer has all the capabilities we need, and it's easy to use. Moreover, we have the know-how in this community to pull off just about anything we want.

My first reaction upon seeing the thread title was, "Obviously this is a person who is not very familiar with Duke modding."
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User is offline   Reaper_Man 

  • Once and Future King

#10

View PostDeeperThought, on May 8 2009, 12:02 AM, said:

Moreover, we have the know-how in this community to pull off just about anything we want.


We have the know-how in this community to pull off things nobody dreamt about or thought were possible. At this point, the only restrictions we have are simply what we haven't come up with yet.
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#11

View Postmsleeper, on May 7 2009, 10:17 PM, said:

At this point, the only restrictions we have are simply what we haven't come up with yet.


Heh, it's easy to get carried away. We have no decent model collision, no ragdoll physics. In fact, the game has almost no physics at all. Objects fall and have blocking spheres, and that's about it. Everything else has to be painstakingly added/faked using script. And yeah, some cool physics effects have been added in some mods, but it doesn't even approach a modern game with realistic physics.

But the lighting is such a great leap forward!
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User is offline   kpl 

#12

What has really been holding back the Duke community all these years is the poor network code. That's the main reason people wanted to develope Duke mods on other game engines.
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#13

But... the network code currently in place generally works flawlessly.
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User is offline   Parkar 

  • Honored Donor

#14

View PostDeeperThought, on May 8 2009, 09:06 AM, said:

Heh, it's easy to get carried away. We have no decent model collision, no ragdoll physics. In fact, the game has almost no physics at all. Objects fall and have blocking spheres, and that's about it. Everything else has to be painstakingly added/faked using script. And yeah, some cool physics effects have been added in some mods, but it doesn't even approach a modern game with realistic physics.

But the lighting is such a great leap forward!


There is pretty much only two major features on my wish list, real physics/better collision detection and more animation capabilities.
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#15

Honestly, if there was proper collision, the rest is already there... or at least capable of being there. I've said too much!
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User is offline   Spiker 

#16

View PostMblackwell, on May 8 2009, 04:49 PM, said:

I've said too much!


Sounds like you know something we don't. I remember TX was mentioning something about it but, oh well we'll see. First they have to finish the render.
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#17

Haha, no not exactly.

I'm mostly teasing.
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#18

Speaking of re-igniting mods, did anyone play the Starship Troopers 2 Alpha "Proof of Concept" release a few years back? I still have it on my hard drive, and was thinking of making it Eduke32 compatible and cleaning up the code (fixing a couple bugs, no pun intended) and re-releasing it. But only if there's some level of interest.

This post has been edited by Mblackwell: 08 May 2009 - 08:06 AM

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User is online   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#19

Apart from the recent change in the lighting engine, EDuke32 is pretty much still at the Quake 1 engine - but with no particles.

This isn't to say that someone couldn't write them in eventually, like they upgraded the graphics engine.

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 08 May 2009 - 08:07 AM

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User is offline   chicken 

  • Fashionable Modeler

#20

View PostMblackwell, on May 8 2009, 08:05 AM, said:

Speaking of re-igniting mods, did anyone play the Starship Troopers 2 Alpha "Proof of Concept" release a few years back? I still have it on my hard drive, and was thinking of making it Eduke32 compatible and cleaning up the code (fixing a couple bugs, no pun intended) and re-releasing it. But only if there's some level of interest.


Definitely! Loved the first one.
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User is offline   Sangman 

#21

View PostMblackwell, on May 8 2009, 06:05 PM, said:

Speaking of re-igniting mods, did anyone play the Starship Troopers 2 Alpha "Proof of Concept" release a few years back? I still have it on my hard drive, and was thinking of making it Eduke32 compatible and cleaning up the code (fixing a couple bugs, no pun intended) and re-releasing it. But only if there's some level of interest.


Yeah I think I first played it when you first released it. Was a good concept, maybe someone can do something more with it like turn it into a little RTS minigame ;)

As for the question in the topic title: Time will tell. I can only hope that once the commotion dies down things will go back to the way they used to be but without the 3DR Forums it won't ever be the same. Maybe Joe will back them up and put them on his DopeFish site but that remains to be seen.
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#22

View PostSangman, on May 8 2009, 01:53 PM, said:

Yeah I think I first played it when you first released it. Was a good concept, maybe someone can do something more with it like turn it into a little RTS minigame ;)


Yeah, the version on my HDD is actually a bit farther along and has an additional enemy. I suppose I'll try and put something out in a few weeks then, since people seem interested. Make sure to hold me to it, too. My fiance is gone next weekend so I should have time. There was also another demo map (a scenario actually) that I started working on but I probably won't finish it (or even release it) since it had just been started. After the alpha is re-released someone else can take a whack at it if they want.

Knowing my luck I'll probably have to recode everything.
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User is offline   Jim Rockford 

  • Banned on Rigel

#23

I'd love to see the SST2 beta.

Also, It'd be great if there was a surge in the Duke Modding community. It's going alright, right now, but more people are definitely welcome.
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User is offline   Sangman 

#24

View PostCaptain Awesome, on May 8 2009, 09:55 PM, said:

It's going alright, right now


But maybe some people might decide to call it quits because without 3D Realms, "the magic" is gone. Totally irrational thought of course but you never know.
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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#25

View PostSangman, on May 9 2009, 01:49 AM, said:

But maybe some people might decide to call it quits because without 3D Realms, "the magic" is gone.


That's what I'm afraid of too. Although I won't be leaving anywhere anytime soon, even if my projects seem to never get finished. Duke3D is such a big part of my life that this deal with 3DR can only make me want to protect that even more.

The community owes it to 3DR to keep the games alive.
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User is offline   Mblackwell 

  • Evil Overlord

#26

That's why I decided to start releasing things that weren't finished from way back when. I figure if people have more projects to play around with they'll be more interested in doing things themselves.
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User is offline   Jim Rockford 

  • Banned on Rigel

#27

Pretty much, which is why I hope more people show up who are good additions to the community.
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User is offline   Geoffrey 

#28

View PostSangman, on May 8 2009, 03:49 PM, said:

But maybe some people might decide to call it quits because without 3D Realms, "the magic" is gone. Totally irrational thought of course but you never know.


If anything I'd say (hope) that without DNF looking peeking over the horizon people will appreciate the classic Duke more. Like sites with DNF images in the banners/logo starting to use DN3D/HRP images again (not hinting, just a good example that happened to be visible in the reply screen). It'll be more about the actual game than a sequel we'll never see.

This post has been edited by Geoffrey: 09 May 2009 - 01:00 AM

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User is offline   Jukno Kim 

#29

I still don't get it. ;)

How is it okay to make use of GTA, Starship Troopers, Super Mario, etc. with Duke3D's engine
but it's a crime to make a Duke game using a different engine?

I say, let's keep the king alive and open threads for Duke mods for Quake, Half-life, Source, Sauerbraten, etc. etc.

In the unlikely event the modders get reprimanded or sued by 3drealms or whoever...
They, assumably, know the risks but decide to invest their time and efforts into it anyway.

I say, Go ahead! and good luck. As long as Duke remains the hero in the game, fans everywhere will surely enjoy it. ;)
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User is offline   Jim Rockford 

  • Banned on Rigel

#30

It IS illegal, its just that most companies don't care. 3DRealms is very protective over their IPs.
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