[Night Wolf]

updates on both #0764 & #0743

#0764
Needs new maps this time... I wish I knew how to make them... hopefully who ever does can make the windows as shiny as they were before



#0743
Fixed this one up a bit adding more detail where it was needed and added a line I missed out..
the new maps work fine for this one , however the windows aren't shiny anymore, not too sure which map makes it shiny..

[Fox]

Much better.

And it even make sense how you can just go through windows in E1L1. It's not just an ilogical secret place.



Buildings with curtains:

723
725
743 (done)
763
764 (done)



Now, I would recommend to increase the contrast of the curtains, to match the style of the 8bit images. Also, I feel the second one (743) should be much darker.

[Spiker]

Awesome work there ozz!

[Night Wolf]

Fox, on Apr 27 2010, 04:27 AM, said:

Now, I would recommend to increase the contrast of the curtains, to match the style of the 8bit images. Also, I feel the second one (743) should be much darker.

The thing is ... they come up darker in polymer for some reason ... so I think they will be fine like this ... adding more contrast makes the quality look less, and the shadow at the to of the curtains becomes too dark.

so yeah i'm not sure about that besides it shouldn't really 100% match the original windows on the original tile as the windows look fake anyway...
so it should be fine like this for now...

also can someone add the last few things i've posted in the forum to the HRP if they haven't already been.
I gave up on figuring out svn... don't really understand it.
Is there some way I can directly submit my work to someone so that they can go directly in the hrp?
or is posting on the forum fine?

[Night Wolf]

#0723

added curtains

for some reason the curtains come up about 80% darker in polymer which makes the curtains practically invisible , no idea why ... possibly the old maps which need to be replaced anyway..

[HellFire]

I never really liked much the HRP because it was too colourful and cartoony, but these new textures that you guys are doing for polymer are pure awesomeness! ozz keep the great work!

[Gambini]

While i agree with this ^ i think you Ozz should not use the imagination too much when making these textures. You´re doing a wonderfull work but those little details (as the crack or the stain) are going to look very repetitive in the game. For example, in E1L1 there must be about 300 ¨windows¨ using that texture. That means 300 identical cracks and 300 identical stains. This happens with every texture of course, but it can be disguised not using such noticeable details.

Maybe in a future a random texture could be implemented. In Half Life 1 (not in hl2 unfortunatelly) for example there is a type of texture that has 5 or 6 different samples, when you put the main one in one wall the game renders all the others in a random order, making it look much more natural. Thus you can make strong details in some of them that they wont look repetitive.

[Piano Man]

Gambini, on Apr 28 2010, 07:29 AM, said:

While i agree with this ^ i think you Ozz should not use the imagination too much when making these textures. You´re doing a wonderfull work but those little details (as the crack or the stain) are going to look very repetitive in the game. For example, in E1L1 there must be about 300 ¨windows¨ using that texture. That means 300 identical cracks and 300 identical stains. This happens with every texture of course, but it can be disguised not using such noticeable details.

Maybe in a future a random texture could be implemented. In Half Life 1 (not in hl2 unfortunatelly) for example there is a type of texture that has 5 or 6 different samples, when you put the main one in one wall the game renders all the others in a random order, making it look much more natural. Thus you can make strong details in some of them that they wont look repetitive.

Hows about this for an idea... Can we create different versions of each of the windows tiles and assign them to be used under different palette colours??? Maybe have on with the curtains closed, but a little light peeking through? And then assign it to an unused palette number (Say Palette: 21 - 25?)

That way you can still edit the shade of it, plus you can set a wall with the default texture and place flat sprites of the texture over the top to randomise the look of the buildings???

[Gambini]

Well, the idea isn´t bad but:

- There are not too many palettes to use, the range 21-24 is already reserved to some colour variations.
- Using different palettes would mean to split walls into several lines in order to apply these.
- The main purpose of the HRP is to make hires replacements for the original assets, requiring to use new variations would be very limited compatibility-wise.
- The original game maps would not get benefit from it since they can´t be edited.

What i meant with the random texture is a sort of engine feature. I dunno how hard it would be to implement and if it would be worth, though.

[Hendricks266]

Gambini, on Apr 27 2010, 09:53 PM, said:

- There are not too many palettes to use, the range 21-24 is already reserved to some colour variations.

False. We have from 26 to about 250 (not 255 due to glow, detail, normal, and specular maps).

Gambini, on Apr 27 2010, 09:53 PM, said:

- Using different palettes would mean to split walls into several lines in order to apply these.
- The main purpose of the HRP is to make hires replacements for the original assets, requiring to use new variations would be very limited compatibility-wise.

Very true.

Gambini, on Apr 27 2010, 09:53 PM, said:

- The original game maps would not get benefit from it since they can´t be edited.

The maps can be edited and redistributed, but it would be a very time consuming process, and not very worthwhile, when the textures can simply not be made to noticeably detailed.



Here's an impractical idea of my own.

Examine the def code of these tiles, and compare their highres replacements to 8-bit originals.

texture 191 {
   pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0191_d.png" [b]xscale 2.0 yscale 2.0[/b] specpower 25 specfactor 1.5 }
   normal { file "highres/textures/0191_n.png" parallaxbias 0.005 parallaxscale 0.01 }
   detail { file "highres/detail/paint.png" xscale 0.9 yscale 0.9 }
}
texture 205 {
   pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0205.png" [b]xscale 2.0 [/b]}
   detail { file "highres/detail/metal.png" xscale 1.2 yscale 0.3 }
}
texture 207 {
   pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0207.png" [b]xscale 2.0[/b] }
   pal 10 { file "highres/textures/0207_10.png" [b]xscale 2.0[/b] }
   pal 14 { file "highres/textures/0207_14.png" [b]xscale 2.0[/b] }
   pal 16 { file "highres/textures/0207_16.png" [b]xscale 2.0[/b] }
   detail { file "highres/detail/metal_fine.png" xscale 0.68 yscale 0.17 }
}
texture 209 {
   pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0209.png" [b]xscale 2.0[/b] }
   detail { file "highres/detail/metal_fine.png" xscale 0.68 yscale 0.17 }
}
texture 214 {
   pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0214.png" [b]xscale 2.0[/b] }
   normal { file "highres/textures/0214_n.png" parallaxbias 0.006 parallaxscale 0.05 }
   specular { file "highres/textures/0214_s.png" }
   detail { file "highres/detail/metal_fine.png" xscale 0.68 yscale 0.17 }
}
texture 215 {
   pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0215.png" [b]xscale 2.0[/b] }
   normal { file "highres/textures/0215_n.png" parallaxbias 0.006 parallaxscale 0.05 }
   specular { file "highres/textures/0215_s.png" }
   detail { file "highres/detail/metal_fine.png" xscale 0.68 yscale 0.17 }
}
texture 218 {
   pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0218.png" [b]xscale 2.0[/b] }
   detail { file "highres/detail/metal.png" xscale 1.2 yscale 0.3 }
}
texture 755 {
   pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0755.png" [b]xscale 2.0 yscale 2.0[/b] }
   detail { file "highres/detail/metal.png" xscale 0.15 yscale 0.15 }
}
texture 815 { 
   pal 0 { file "highres/textures/0815.png" [b]xscale 2.0 yscale 2.0[/b] }
   normal { file "highres/textures/0815_n.png" parallaxbias 0.0 parallaxscale 0.005 }
   specular { file "highres/textures/0815_s.png" }
   detail { file "highres/detail/asphalt2.png" xscale 0.3 yscale 0.3 }
}

This neat feature allows a texture to be replicated a number of times to decrease the amount of overlapping.

The problem is that the resulting image files are very large, but no more so (perhaps less) than several different random textures.

[Night Wolf]

Gambini, on Apr 28 2010, 09:29 AM, said:

While i agree with this ^ i think you Ozz should not use the imagination too much when making these textures. You´re doing a wonderfull work but those little details (as the crack or the stain) are going to look very repetitive in the game. For example, in E1L1 there must be about 300 ¨windows¨ using that texture. That means 300 identical cracks and 300 identical stains. This happens with every texture of course, but it can be disguised not using such noticeable details.

Maybe in a future a random texture could be implemented. In Half Life 1 (not in hl2 unfortunatelly) for example there is a type of texture that has 5 or 6 different samples, when you put the main one in one wall the game renders all the others in a random order, making it look much more natural. Thus you can make strong details in some of them that they wont look repetitive.

I agree ... though ... if you look at the original tiles they are also repetitive so there nothing you can do about that unless we can do something like your explaining above..

in the beginning we were just making hight res replacements , now we have to think more on a modern scale of things , which I think is great ... the thing is could anyone really be bothered doing this...

I mean if you wanted to take it to that level ...
then shouldn't you also think about lining up textures properly in game, for instance a window will go though the floor, which is unrealistic, but that's how it was originally..
example:

[Parkar]

As Hendricks says you can define the highres texture to be more then just one repetition. This is already used for some textures that was repeated a lot. mostly walls with the aspect 1:4 or 1:8 which was changed to 1:2 and 1:4.

Note that there is nothing that forces all the textures to be the same number of repeats. In practise you probably need to have most of them repeat as many times. On the windows we are talking about here the specualr could be just one window while the diffuse and normal map are two windows.

The random tiling idea is not bad either. Someone needs to implement it though.

Edit: I think #0764 could benefit from being 1024x1024 btw. Currently it is less detailed then the other walls posted recently.

[lawl]

ozz, on Apr 28 2010, 01:47 AM, said:

I agree ... though ... if you look at the original tiles they are also repetitive so there nothing you can do about that unless we can do something like your explaining above..

in the beginning we were just making hight res replacements , now we have to think more on a modern scale of things , which I think is great ... the thing is could anyone really be bothered doing this...

I mean if you wanted to take it to that level ...
then shouldn't you also think about lining up textures properly in game, for instance a window will go though the floor, which is unrealistic, but that's how it was originally..
example:

Thats my opinion, too =)
Great, that someone think like me

[The Commander]

We need texture blending...

[Night Wolf]

Parkar, on Apr 28 2010, 09:23 PM, said:

Edit: I think #0764 could benefit from being 1024x1024 btw. Currently it is less detailed then the other walls posted recently.

ahhh ... well that would be impossible now unless someone remade it ... as you see this was one of the first textures I made and never thought of starting with a bigger size..
so i guess that particylar one is stuck with 512 x 512 ...

its quite detailed .. except when it comes to the windows... but its not too bad

[Night Wolf]

#0276

(The force-shield lights)

Its a little bigger then what it should be, but its sooo small otherwise and become lossy not sure if that's even a problem considering its such a small texture in game anyway



im not sure what to do with the red one yet ... as the original had all the grey parts red as to show it glowing red but shouldn't that be done with polymer lights now?

[Night Wolf]

Have I done this right , polymer wise?

#0609

[Night Wolf]

or


This ones probebly more suitable plus I noticed in the previous one i forgot to remove the shadows in the transparent parts

[Night Wolf]

revision of #1042

[Gambini]

Great. Just dont remove the alternative palette tile until there is a new replacement matching the new one. Or i didn´t submitt it yet?

[Night Wolf]

Gambini, on May 3 2010, 12:53 AM, said:

Great. Just dont remove the alternative palette tile until there is a new replacement matching the new one. Or i didn´t submitt it yet?

If your referring to me.
well I wont be removing anything i'm just posting them on the forum for now .. not sure who's adding them in and what not..

[Gambini]

Partly directed to you, partly to whom is on charge of uploading it. I´ve made a version of that tile for pal 24 (i think) so my idea was that until i dont come with the new one, the old one (only for pal24) should stay.

But again. I have to research and see whether i made and submitted the tile or just made it

[Night Wolf]

this door ... in E1L3 should be green not blue

[Hendricks266]

Good find!

Looks to me like a pal swap. What is the current status of that tile's default pal?

[Roma Loom]

i'll take care of this.

[Night Wolf]

I remade this earth sky-box texture since it looked cartoony
looked around on the net and found a better looking earth and tweaked it a it adding a glow

[Night Wolf]

I was looking at that new pistol model for duke that "Tea Monster" posted a few pages back ... it looks awesome

I stumbled across a few other interesting pics


I dont know if this guy made this for a separate HRP??
supposedly lemos duke 3d whatever that is...
That was made in like 2005 or something ... how come we dont have anything like this

[lawl]

ozz, on May 3 2010, 08:08 AM, said:

I remade this earth sky-box texture since it looked cartoony
looked around on the net and found a better looking earth and tweaked it a it adding a glow

It looks amazing!!! O.o

[Master Fibbles]

ozz, on May 4 2010, 12:49 PM, said:

I dont know if this guy made this for a separate HRP??
supposedly lemos duke 3d whatever that is...
That was made in like 2005 or something ... how come we dont have anything like this

I think the stated reason at the time was something about number of triangles in the model. It also could have been a rights issue but my gut says there was debate over keeping the game playable on older machines. With Polymer and such now I think people have generally shifted away from that maxim.

[Roma Loom]

regarding lemo's duke shotty (and also devastator) - they are just hipoly, non-game models. Even one shell from that box has a higher polycount than any monster model in HRP