[0815Jack]

i am just curious.....does the chinese/japanese writing in the original tile make any sense?

[Master Fibbles]

I was thinking that myself. Does it really matter? No, but it would be interesting.

[Player Lin]

0815Jack, on Sep 20 2010, 03:02 PM, said:

i am just curious.....does the chinese/japanese writing in the original tile make any sense?

Unfortunately, no, many of them just like some random symbols on it. Not really Chinese/Japanese or Asia language(?) of characters.

(Shadow Warrior too. At least it's better, but still same problem, mostly are make no sense...or just mis-use it/write it wrong without really understand what is it means/how to write it correctly.)

But, really...... who care?

[Master Fibbles]

It could be worse. It could be some secret inside joke in Chinese. I always wonder when I see people with Chinese/Japanese characters tatooed on them: Do you really know what that means or are you just taking the word of the artist? I'd be that cynical artist who tells you that a symbol means peace when really it means douche bag.

[Tea Monster]

Mr.Flibble, on Sep 21 2010, 11:27 AM, said:

It could be worse. It could be some secret inside joke in Chinese. I always wonder when I see people with Chinese/Japanese characters tatooed on them: Do you really know what that means or are you just taking the word of the artist? I'd be that cynical artist who tells you that a symbol means peace when really it means douche bag.

No, most of the time they don't. You'd think that if you were getting something tattooed onto your body that you'd double check WTF it meant, but no...

This site is Hillarious. Dumb-asses writing into the blog "Hey, what does this mean in Kanji?" Too late now dude! Should have found out before they got the needle out! One literally means 'no head (brain)'

for a counterpoint, check out www.engrish.com

[Master Fibbles]

I think I'm going to sit down and do some simple modeling that practices baking normal maps etc. I could go and revise the bottles (since they were kind of poorly done by me in the first place and someone fixed up the skins); they probably should be changed to better match original shapes/sizes and could benefit from some minor polymerizing.
Of course, I'm also open to whatever is needed to be done. I'm not planning on doing any animating but eventually I'll get to practicing that too.

[Tetsuo]

As long as you are redoing the bottles I think things the beer should be made a little less jokey... like I'm not sure duff beer has a place in the game.

[Green]

Just a suggestion, for E1L1 would it be possible for the cinema sign to have actual lightbulbs with small light sources instead of being a flat texture?

[Hendricks266]

Tetsuo, on Sep 21 2010, 10:24 PM, said:

As long as you are redoing the bottles I think things the beer should be made a little less jokey... like I'm not sure duff beer has a place in the game.

Yes it does. Stadium blimp, Simpsons jokes.

[Master Fibbles]

The original tiles are illegible which is why the current bottles are what they are. I took suggestions back then and I wasn't legal so I didn't buy beer myself (or have a bottle collection). I think everything will be remade as beer bottles; pretty much the same size/shape. I like the using the same UV map throughout since that just makes it easier.

[vakooja]

The bulbs should be modeled. It's not possible to make the bulbs look convincing enough with bumpmaps only.


Some roughness to the surfaces is yet to be applied.

[Danukem]

vakooja, on Sep 22 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

The bulbs should be modeled. It's not possible to make the bulbs look convincing enough with bumpmaps only.


Some roughness to the surfaces is yet to be applied.

In the original level, there is simply a texture covering a flat surface. The HRP is designed to work with the original level data. That means it can only replace the texture with a better texture; there is no way to put in bulb models without editing the .map file.

[Tetsuo]

I think those lights should be fine with a good height map and glow\lighting effect applied to them.... all the lights, neon. etc. need a real good glow to them.

Some more thoughts on the beer. Think about how the liquor was portrayed in Prey. It wasn't legible what it was there either but it wasn't jokey either and seemed to be based more on the real world. If the beer is going to remain jokey in duke it should at least be more..... dukey. Like in the teaser trailer where he was pumping iron and drinking beer. I think it should be either generic or duke's own brand.... but not a cartoon brand. AFAIK we are trying to get away from being too cartooney.

[Hendricks266]

vakooja, on Sep 22 2010, 02:26 PM, said:

The bulbs should be modeled. It's not possible to make the bulbs look convincing enough with bumpmaps only.


Some roughness to the surfaces is yet to be applied.

Those look good to me, and a great improvement.

I hope you can make this tile from Nuclear Winter as well:

Tetsuo, on Sep 22 2010, 05:16 PM, said:

AFAIK we are trying to get away from being too cartooney.

Cartooniness in style, like the Yogi Bear Troopers we had a while back. Not in the references.

[Master Fibbles]

Tetsuo, on Sep 22 2010, 06:16 PM, said:

Some more thoughts on the beer. Think about how the liquor was portrayed in Prey. It wasn't legible what it was there either but it wasn't jokey either and seemed to be based more on the real world. If the beer is going to remain jokey in duke it should at least be more..... dukey. Like in the teaser trailer where he was pumping iron and drinking beer. I think it should be either generic or duke's own brand.... but not a cartoon brand. AFAIK we are trying to get away from being too cartooney.

I looked at the bottles in the original art. I count 3-4 maybe 5 actual bottles of beer while the rest look like some form of liquor. The bottles don't seem to be that proportional size though.


I'll probably start some of this either this weekend or tomorrow (depending on how much it distracts me from school). I'll do the basic mesh(es) and UV and then work on how to make the labels and what is probably beer and what is probably liquor.

[Danukem]

Mr.Flibble, on Sep 22 2010, 05:52 PM, said:

I'll probably start some of this either this weekend or tomorrow (depending on how much it distracts me from school). I'll do the basic mesh(es) and UV and then work on how to make the labels and what is probably beer and what is probably liquor.

I have a request. Make two skins for each: one for the bottle being full and unopened, the other for the bottle being empty. The default skin (pal 0) can be for the state that seems appropriate based on the 8-bit art. Then the alternate skin can be put on pal 30 (or whatever) so that mappers have an option. There is fun to be had if we have both full and empty versions (Duke could be made to drink in DukePlus, for example).

[Master Fibbles]

Unless I put the cap entirely on the skin (normal mapping the whole thing) I would have to make two models also. I can see what I can do. I'll probably stick with one base mesh so it shouldn't be a problem.

[Hendricks266]

Good idea DT. However,

DeeperThought, on Sep 22 2010, 08:04 PM, said:

Then the alternate skin can be put on pal 30 (or whatever) so that mappers have an option.

Given the release of CraigFatman's Extended Color Look-Up Table Pack,

extclut readme said:

26 original pals (##0-25) are preserved with duplicate colors removed; 102 custom pals (##26-127) are introduced. Pals ##129-132 are used for EDuke32 color fog. Pal #128 is the same as pal #0.

Since this appears to be the maximum number of lookups PALETTE.DAT can hold (unless he is wrong),

All hightile-only hack alternate skins, i.e. ones that do not affect 8-bit art, should be mapped to pals 133 through about 250.

[Stabs]

I use 40+ on all my textures and seems to be fine

wheres this pistol ?

[Danukem]

DanM, on Sep 22 2010, 10:47 PM, said:

I use 40+ on all my textures and seems to be fine

His point was that if someone were using the CLUT pack (as is the case with Attrition, for example) and playing without the HRP, then a pal 25-127 sprite will be a strange color. If you are using the HRP, or not using the CLUT pack, then it's not an issue.

[Tetsuo]

Just out of curiosity... has any one given thought to a sound effects high res pack? We're getting textures and we have a few music packs but nothing for the sound effects as far as I can tell. Those are going to stick out like a sore thumb especially after we have all our polymerized weapons added in. Quake has one as most of the sound in it where made\manipulated from stock sounds.

[Hendricks266]

The voices are irreplaceable unless someone from 3DR comes up with better masters.

The best (and only) way I would support a sound effect pack would be if they took sound effects from the original sound bank 3DR used and keep them in their original, highest-quality format, no lossy compression whatsoever.

[Tetsuo]

Hendricks266, on Sep 24 2010, 01:45 PM, said:

The voices are irreplaceable unless someone from 3DR comes up with better masters.

The best (and only) way I would support a sound effect pack would be if they took sound effects from the original sound bank 3DR used and keep them in their original, highest-quality format, no lossy compression whatsoever.

Yeah I was talking mostly about the sound effects. The voices well... unless they have them archived in better quality the only way we could get those is if Jon St. John for example donated his time and re-recorded his lines for us.

[0815Jack]

Tetsuo, on Sep 25 2010, 04:46 AM, said:

Yeah I was talking mostly about the sound effects. The voices well... unless they have them archived in better quality the only way we could get those is if Jon St. John for example donated his time and re-recorded his lines for us.

someone already started such a project http://forums.duke4....?showtopic=1413 but abandon it.......

[Master Fibbles]

Quick question:
What are we shooting for as far as triangle counts on props? I could make the bottles around or below 100 or 200 but I'm not sure I have to stick to that limit. Any suggestions on a polycount?

[SwissCm]

With normal mapping you should really be able to pull off decent looking bottles at ~50 polys

[Master Fibbles]

That is what I was thinking. I may be doing something wrong with the normal maps or something. I'll take some time into it between work.

[Tea Monster]

Depending on how you look at it, this may be slightly off-topic, but check this out.

[Tetsuo]

It looks good but I think he makes that first part look more "in ruins" than it should be. Also I hope no one gets demoralized and stops this Polymer HRP project! But it goes to show the HRP does have some way to go especially with the lighting.

[Micky C]

Yeah it doesn't look at all like duke except maybe a vague basis on the map layout. It definitely wouldn't feel like duke when playing it, long live eduke32 and the HRP!