[Treupp]

Daedolon, on 24 June 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

Can you post the full normal eduke32.log? This doesn't seem right even for a debug build.

Sure thing:

http://pastebin.com/d4u7XWRm

[blizzart]

Treupp, on 24 June 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

Sure thing:

http://pastebin.com/d4u7XWRm

You´re still playing in Polymost (32 bit). Try to start it in 8bit mode and everything should be fine.

[Treupp]

blizzart, on 24 June 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

You´re still playing in Polymost (32 bit). Try to start it in 8bit mode and everything should be fine.

Spot on! Did the trick, much appreciated.

[High Treason]

On the patching side of things, I spotted a couple of minor bugs but I was playing on a machine that struggles to hold >30fps in the regular levels, let alone the episode and it's known to produce false positives. If you want though, I can run through the episode again with a better machine in DOS Duke3D trying to break it on purpose and then leave a message at Scent-88 within the next 24 hours - because I still can't send PMs here...

[MetHy]

Treupp, on 24 June 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

Spot on! Did the trick, much appreciated.

FYI The intro and ending videos look much worse in 8bit; also a few maps were made with 32bit in mind which means that you may spot some small weird graphical things in a couple of maps (such as decorative sprites clipping), nothing major or that hinders gameplay though. However everything was made to look and play fine both in 8bit and 32bit (I play in 8bit myself because I like it better, even maps made with 32bit in mind).

Have fun!

High Treason, on 24 June 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

On the patching side of things, I spotted a couple of minor bugs but I was playing on a machine that struggles to hold >30fps in the regular levels, let alone the episode and it's known to produce false positives. If you want though, I can run through the episode again with a better machine in DOS Duke3D trying to break it on purpose and then leave a message at Scent-88 within the next 24 hours - because I still can't send PMs here...

Tons of things won't work in DOS Duke though. For instance, the secret map won't, the rockets of the alien spaceship on the boss map won't (probably tons of other things; not to mention small graphical things specifically regarding sprites like some floor aligned sprites or sprites using noshade won't look good). But yeah, if you do that at least we'll know for sure as far as the jumps are concerned.

[Treupp]

MetHy, on 24 June 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

FYI The intro and ending videos look much worse in 8bit; also a few maps were made with 32bit in mind which means that you may spot some small weird graphical things in a couple of maps (such as decorative sprites clipping), nothing major or that hinders gameplay though. However everything was made to look and play fine both in 8bit and 32bit (I play in 8bit myself because I like it better, even maps made with 32bit in mind).

Have fun!

It puzzles me, if some maps were made with 32bit in mind, why am I unable to play in the 32bit mode?

[Hendricks266]

Treupp, on 24 June 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

It puzzles me, if some maps were made with 32bit in mind, why am I unable to play in the 32bit mode?

polymost_glreset()
OpenGL Information:
 Version:  1.1.0
 Vendor:   Microsoft Corporation
 Renderer: GDI Generic
gltexinvalidateall()
gltexinvalidateall()
polymost_glreset()
Your OpenGL implementation doesn't support detail mapping. Disabling...
Your OpenGL implementation doesn't support glow mapping. Disabling...
Your OpenGL implementation doesn't support Vertex Buffer Objects. Disabling...
Opened "dukehard/textures" as cache file
Warning: the GL driver lacks necessary functions to use caching

Do you have an OpenGL-supporting graphics card, and if so, do you have the proper drivers installed?

[Treupp]

Hendricks266, on 24 June 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

Do you have an OpenGL-supporting graphics card, and if so, do you have the proper drivers installed?

I do have latest drivers installed, and earlier versions of eduke would complain that "An unsupported OpenGL driver was detected".

So I presume, no OpenGL for me. No biggie though, I was just curious.

And once again, I appreciate your help.

[MetHy]

Treupp, on 24 June 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

It puzzles me, if some maps were made with 32bit in mind, why am I unable to play in the 32bit mode?

Don't worry, you might not even notice the issues I mentioned (unless you're a die hard duke3D fanatic like we are and know the game and the engine by heart, the 'issues' I are VERY minor), plus like I said the episode is made for both visual modes and (except for one map) I didn't even say in the txt which map were made with 8bit in mind and which were made with 32bit in mind; because not only it's mainly just a preference thing, and because it would be very silly to ask players to switch modes between maps.

Actually I shouldn't even have mentioned it to you. BTW in case you wonder, the reason why a specific mode wasn't picked to make all the maps was because we didn't even know some of the 'issues' before making the episode (even though we all play the game and eduke32 all the time). It's that minor.

The only real difference is the quality of the videos, but we'll upload them with good quality on youtube at some point in a near future.

Edit : good to hear someone actually caring about playing maps the way they are intended though.

[Hendricks266]

Treupp, on 24 June 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

I do have latest drivers installed, and earlier versions of eduke would complain that "An unsupported OpenGL driver was detected".

So I presume, no OpenGL for me. No biggie though, I was just curious.

And once again, I appreciate your help.

Technically, we should inform the user of this instead of crashing, so thank you for the crashlog.

Nothing makes devs happier than users conducting effective troubleshooting.

[Komenja]

Just finished it, this kicks ass! You all did an awesome job with the levels!

[Forge]

cinematic lounge - pretty neat color choices for the walls
flesh - detailing pretty good, but some of those smaller rooms are pretty simplistic and redundant.
^the combat in both these maps are crazy fast paced and intense at some locations

poorman's library - talk about creepy and wild effects - i never thought i was going to get out of there
don't know if it was on purpose, but a few locations the sounds were just an echoy buzz - i thought the game was going to lock up

[Paul B]

Forge, on 24 June 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

poorman's library - talk about creepy and wild effects - i never thought i was going to get out of there
don't know if it was on purpose, but a few locations the sounds were just an echoy buzz - i thought the game was going to lock up

I think there might be something wrong with your sound card Forge. Because I heard Led Zeppelin-Stairway to Heaven while playing high treasons map. =P Haha

Anyway, I found it added to the creepiness of the map (Speaking about the original ambience) =D

[MetHy]

Forge, on 24 June 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

flesh - detailing pretty good, but some of those smaller rooms are pretty simplistic and redundant.
[...]
poorman's library - talk about creepy and wild effects - i never thought i was going to get out of there
don't know if it was on purpose, but a few locations the sounds were just an echoy buzz - i thought the game was going to lock up

Speaking of Flesh; 4 of the maps in the episode are the mappers' first Duke3D maps : Construction Destruction (dh03.map) by Cage , Storage Wars (dh07.map) by Stumpy, Flesh by Dukebot (dh11.map) and Legal Joint (dh14.map) by Daedolon.

I was surprised to find 4 really good maps. I knew Daedolon could map because I've seen some of his WIP maps, but Cage's is the one which impressed me the most. I really didn't expect such quality, from the attention to details and spending a lot of times building things which may NOT even trigger (tons of things can be destroyed), with excellent enemy placement too. The way it re-invents the definition of backtracking and the scripted events made it quite unique, too.

Storage Wars is a bit simple in the sense that it's all just boxes; however (Doom being my witness), if you can do enemy placement and item balancing right, rooms filled with boxes can be some of the must fun stuff in oldschool FPS. And I was surprised to see how great the enemy placement and gameplay balancing is in the map, the map is better in that regard than some of the maps I've seen coming from the "more experienced mappers" I've seen.

Flesh is a bit repetitive indeed, both in terms of looks and gameplay; however it makes for excellent atmosphere. I don't know why but the whole map makes me think of the first Resident Evil.

Daedolon's is classic-duke style at its finest. Wether it's the looks, the gameplay, the level layout and progression, the theme going on, etc it's like Daedolon knows EXACTLY what makes DN3D good, combines the best elements together, and pushes it further than how it was in the original game. The only thing it is perhaps missing to be fully representative of The Birth is a bit more humour.

The point of this post being : I hope to see more maps from all 4 of you.

[Merlijn]

Yay, it's here!

I've played through the first 4 maps, really good stuff so far!
More detailed comments will follow once I've finished the episode,

I'm sorry that I didn't find the time to add a contribution. But then again, the maps I've played so far would have blown mine out of the water. Especially constructive deconstruction, loved that one.

[LeoD]

Thanks a lot, guys, for a lot of gameplay. Since I'm a slow player this will keep me busy for a while.
I've just finished "Construction Destruction" and it was pretty much exciting how fresh it felt. People will never run out of ideas for new Duke maps.

You could take a setup similar to ozelot47's "Satellite Panic" for a space episode next year...

MetHy, on 24 June 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

The point of this post being : I hope to see more maps from all 4 of you.

+1

[Hendricks266]

LeoD, on 24 June 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

People will never run out of ideas for new Duke maps.

The sky will be the limit as soon as map-text supports inline Lua. Full scripting on a per-map basis. No hassle.

That is, if mappers will bother learning a programming language.

[Cage]

MetHy, on 24 June 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

I was surprised to find 4 really good maps. I knew Daedolon could map because I've seen some of his WIP maps, but Cage's is the one which impressed me the most. I really didn't expect such quality, from the attention to details and spending a lot of times building things which may NOT even trigger (tons of things can be destroyed), with excellent enemy placement too. The way it re-invents the definition of backtracking and the scripted events made it quite unique, too.
(...)
The point of this post being : I hope to see more maps from all 4 of you.

You haven't seen the last of me yet.

[Micky C]

Hendricks266, on 24 June 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

The sky will be the limit as soon as map-text supports inline Lua. Full scripting on a per-map basis. No hassle.

That is, if mappers will bother learning a programming language.

Should be pretty awesome, I keep saying I'll learn lua one of these days. I hope the scripting will be compatible with mods though. I'm also holding out for n:1 redwalls. Should take ROR to a whole new level!!!

Also, I swear Cage has done some kind of mapping in the past. I mean he's never released anything but I'm sure he's done something somewhere.

For first levels I was pretty impressed with the 4 guys, especially Stumpy and Dukebot since I'd never seen any of their work previously. Well, I mean Dukebot had pictures of Overworld but the arcitecture and shading in this is a lot better than that so good job!
Now High Treason's map was amazing! Never have I been quite so freaked out in a Duke map before, it's got more stuff packed in it than (the original) A. Dream by Eddy. Great use of the echo effect ramped up for the freaky sound.

Glad to hear I'll have a chance to patch up one or two things. Don't worry Methy I won't go on an uber detailing spree. I think my map is a lost cause and would have to be rebuilt from the ground up to come close to matching what others have done, so I won't bother with any of that.

[Forge]

MetHy, on 23 June 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

- Did you get to play the secret map and if so how? (please no spoiler, just wanting to know if you found it legit)

y7es

[ck3D]

awesome news. just downloaded the file, looking forward to playing the full thing - alas i have way too much work on my plate right now so that will have to wait a little. i am getting metropolitan mayhem vibes from this release somehow and funnily enough, after going through everyone's comments, it looks like i am not the only one. anyway working with you guys on this was just as fun as working on metropolitan mayhem, even though my contribution is much smaller this time. for one i am pretty satisfied with how my map turned out and wouldn't mind if it 'leaked' on steam at some point later on to keep the hype up. actually i wish i had been able to find the time to make a last-minute second map to surprise everyone but let's be realistic, finding an hour or two to add the final touches to the one i originally submitted was hectic enough !

the screenshots look great and it is pretty neat to see that people seem to dig this mod. MetHy was a great project leader too with a strong sense of organization which definitely helped this whole thing get off the ground. again, looking forward to being able to relax, sit back and just enjoy going through all those damn floors one by one, preferably on a chill sleepless night.

[Forge]

showcase - pretty neat tiered layout for some vertical movement
legal joint - nothing too amazing as far as the type of environment this is set in, but still very atmospheric and good sense of progression
power out - this map is probably my least favorite as far as game play is concerned. the amount of turrets inside the building and pigtanks in small hallways and rooms were just annoying to me. the first map i died in that wasn't caused by being sector-squished. fell off the building.
parking - finally some elbow room to move around in. not too many freezer as a main weapon maps out there.
rooftop - after being indoors for so long the outdoor scenery was very impressive - pretty crazy amount of fire fights

[MetHy]

Mickey C, on 24 June 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

Also, I swear Cage has done some kind of mapping in the past. I mean he's never released anything but I'm sure he's done something somewhere.

Yeah like Daedolon, but AFAIK it's their first released Duke3D maps.

ck3D, on 25 June 2014 - 03:37 AM, said:

MetHy was a great project leader too with a strong sense of organization which definitely helped this whole thing get off the ground.

I'd say I did better than with Metropolitan Mayhem, which was delayed 2 years because of slacking (mostly mine) and which leadership switched from me to you.
But this a team effort, a community episode, I'm only responsible for a small part of this episode.

Forge, on 25 June 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

[...]
power out - this map is probably my least favorite as far as game play is concerned. the amount of turrets inside the building and pigtanks in small hallways and rooms were just annoying to me. the first map i died in that wasn't caused by being sector-squished. fell off the building.
[...]
parking - finally some elbow room to move around in. not too many freezer as a main weapon maps out there.
[...]

I got Mister Sinister to dub down his map a LOT, both gameplay AND puzzles; and I felt quite bad about it. It's one of these things where I thought I HAD to do even though I really didn't want to (because I hate telling people how they should do their maps, doesn't seem fair). Gameplay used to be a LOT harder and there also was 2 more puzzles (so a total of 4) which were MUCH harder to figure out than the 2 remaining ones.
For what it's worth, the inside turrets didn't bother me. Actually I thought it was fun to have to avoid their shots while shooting the aliens (because you can't shoot the turrets first due to autoaim, which the map is clearly made for), it changes how you typically fight those simple aliens and avoid their shots.
Also if you backtrack to get the 'hidden' medipack as soon as you get explosives to blow up the crack, the map is much easier. Also, use the nightvision goggles, there are a total of 3.

I think it's a good map and it's good to have a more challenging map at the end; a couple of maps in the episode were clearly not even trying to be challenging (which isn't wrong; it's good to a bit of cheerful simple shooting too, it's good to have a bit of everything)

As for the secret map, the idea was to base it on less common weapons indeed : freezer + pipebomb; then expander.
There is also a chaingun because after some testing, I thought that some players would hate it if they weren't given either a shotgun or a chaingun (and also because you needed a hitscan weaopn for all those flying drones I put!). The only shotgun and shotgun ammo you can get is from pigcop drops though.
There is also a 'hidden' pistol at the start. I added it as a very last step in development, that's because I thought that a freezer CALLS for a pistol : at least that's how I play with the freezer in open spaces, I freeze a couple of enemies from far away, then switch to the pistol to shoot their frozen asses from a distance, and switch back to the freezer. There is very little pistol ammo provided until you reach the power room which is the end, though, I really put it there so people can use it with the freezer, though I don't know if many players even mix both weapons like I do when playing.

I think the mappers did a great job with their cars. They look incredible and totally make it worth finding the secret map!
I hope nobody had trouble figuring out what you have to do in this map, too. I left as many clues as I could without straight out telling what the player has to do.

Edit : btw - without even counting those who downloaded it using the first temporary link, or dukeworld's mirror, there is already more than 200 downloads on MODDB in just 1 day and a half! good job guys!

[Forge]

power-out wasn't hard -there were plenty of healing objects and fire power items- the puzzles and actual progression were fine - it was just annoying (to me). i don't mind an occasional turret, and the ones outside mounted on the opposing buildings were fun, but in the building proper it was room after room after room with turret after turret after turret - add in a couple pigcop tanks in closet sized rooms. An occasional major room or junction to change up the style of enemy engagement is cool, but to do it as the primary combat theme was just no fun (for me).
i also got "lost" after the mission briefing room. it took me alot of extra exploring to finally see that obscure switch to open up the room where the actual buttons were.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with the map - it was just the least fun for my tastes and preferred game play style

[MetHy]

Forge, on 25 June 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

i also got "lost" after the mission briefing room. it took me alot of extra exploring to finally see that obscure switch to open up the room where the actual buttons were.

I think that button is fine. There is the window opening and the fight with the 2 commanders (edit: NOT Blords lol) just there, which means you are likely to see the switch just because you'll be spending a bit of there anyway. Plus there is the electric cable + a small sprite structure near it, which is more visible then the switch itself and which hints that something is there.
And even if players have to go look around a bit to find it, I think that's alright. There is MUCH harder things to figure out in the original Duke Nukem 3D, of instance think of Duke Burger and how you have to figure out you have to press the 'order sign' and THEN realize that this did something (other than a joke) by looking up (and mouselook was less of a thing back then) and then find a way to jump and to reach it. Oh and just after that you have the first shrinker puzzle of the game.
Really, it's part of the game. The problem is that people (in general, this post is not directed to you) forgot that because now they know the game by heart; and also because this kind of things isn't in modern gaming anymore; in which the game holds your hand like you're a 2 year old baby and straight out TELLS you everything you have to do it and repeat it until you do it. EVEN if someone claims he likes retro games more and doesn't like modern games holding your hands, modern games have clearly influenced the way he sees and plays even old games.
So it also influences how duke nukem 3D maps are while I think it shouldn't (even though even myself try to make sure players don't get lost in my maps). Having to look around a bit is totally fine and is even part of how the game is; nowadays though people quickly just quit, and go ask/complain online even though that takes more time than finding it yourself in most cases (just look at the comments on MODDB and that guy asking about one of the first puzzles in the first map)

[Forge]

well alright then.
The initial reason i missed it was that sprite structure obscured my view of it. By the time I realized I missed something I was already at the briefing room so i had to re-explore the entire map.

I mentioned it, but I also said there's nothing wrong with the map. The extra exploring was a minor inconvenience tossed in on a map that already didn't suit my personal tastes of what's fun. I didn't think my comment was going to elicit a dissertation to justify the reasoning behind its placement.
obviously the beta-testers didn't have any problem with it and I found it eventually.

again. the map is just fine the way it is. just not my cup of tea

on the plus side, at least for me, the level isn't "forgettable"

[blizzart]

I´ve got stuck in Legal Joint. I got the red keycard and cleaned everything in the kitchen and the room next to it, but I couldn´t find the blue keycard. Also, there are still two rooms that are closed, which seem to get entered by the player. I found three switches behind some seats and something else. Does something have to be opened by them. I couldn´t found anymore.

[MetHy]

Forge, on 25 June 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

well alright then.
The initial reason i missed it was that sprite structure obscured my view of it. By the time I realized I missed something I was already at the briefing room so i had to re-explore the entire map.

I mentioned it, but I also said there's nothing wrong with the map. The extra exploring was a minor inconvenience tossed in on a map that already didn't suit my personal tastes of what's fun. I didn't think my comment was going to elicit a dissertation to justify the reasoning behind its placement.
obviously the beta-testers didn't have any problem with it and I found it eventually.

again. the map is just fine the way it is. just not my cup of tea

on the plus side, at least for me, the level isn't "forgettable"

Like I said it's not directed to you, it's more a general thought, you're the not the first to mention getting a bit stuck in Power Out (though you are in this thread)

blizzart, on 25 June 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

I´ve got stuck in Legal Joint. I got the red keycard and cleaned everything in the kitchen and the room next to it, but I couldn´t find the blue keycard. Also, there are still two rooms that are closed, which seem to get entered by the player. I found three switches behind some seats and something else. Does something have to be opened by them. I couldn´t found anymore.

Spoiler

Behind the duke burger kitchen (where you use the redkey), there is a room where you must have fought 2 Newbeasts; in that room there is a switch with 'B' written on it. You must have seen the 'B gate' in the map; and you can access it by the path just above the switch. The 3 switches are part of finding an optional super secret.

[Forge]

blizzart, on 25 June 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

I´ve got stuck in Legal Joint. I got the red keycard and cleaned everything in the kitchen and the room next to it, but I couldn´t find the blue keycard. Also, there are still two rooms that are closed, which seem to get entered by the player. I found three switches behind some seats and something else. Does something have to be opened by them. I couldn´t found anymore.

have you thoroughly explored the ventilation shaft system

[blizzart]

MetHy, on 25 June 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Spoiler

Behind the duke burger kitchen (where you use the redkey), there is a room where you must have fought 2 Newbeasts; in that room there is a switch with 'B' written on it. You must have seen the 'B gate' in the map; and you can access it by the path just above the switch. The 3 switches are part of finding an optional super secret.

Spoiler

I saw a newbeast in the cooling room, but it disappeared immediately or got eaten by a slimer. I used the 'B' switch and went through the vents, but couldn´t find anything.