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I was under the impression that the levels are hand-made, however a few areas might change around for the sake of replay value. Overall the maps would be distinct and recognizable. Is this not the case?
STRAFE
#122 Posted 04 March 2016 - 04:52 PM
Alright, what you see are rooms that have been crafted but the way these rooms link to each other is randomised so there might be 10 different rooms made but each time you play, the connecting room layout might be different. Think kind like Binding of Isaac. Lots of different room designs for each floor that connect together almost randomly.
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#124 Posted 04 March 2016 - 05:58 PM
Ah I see.
The problem with this sort of thing is that by design it's always going to be abstract. IMO the best games from the 90's had recognizable, relatable locations. I'm talking Duke Nukem 3D, Half Life, Sin.
As others have said, even the games based on unconventional locations still had well thought-out progression to them.
All I hope here is that each level still feels unique/identifiable despite this randomizing process. There's nothing worse than the feeling you're playing the same level over and over no matter how technically different they may be.
The problem with this sort of thing is that by design it's always going to be abstract. IMO the best games from the 90's had recognizable, relatable locations. I'm talking Duke Nukem 3D, Half Life, Sin.
As others have said, even the games based on unconventional locations still had well thought-out progression to them.
All I hope here is that each level still feels unique/identifiable despite this randomizing process. There's nothing worse than the feeling you're playing the same level over and over no matter how technically different they may be.
This post has been edited by Micky C: 04 March 2016 - 06:00 PM
#125 Posted 05 March 2016 - 03:27 AM
Just watched the trailer. I'd say it's not as old-school as I expected but overall the game seems pretty cool, the locations look super bland though IMO.
Made me think of Slige/Oblige the random level generator for Doom
Made me think of Slige/Oblige the random level generator for Doom
This post has been edited by Cage: 05 March 2016 - 03:27 AM
- Music Producer
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#126 Posted 12 March 2016 - 03:17 PM
I still don't get why stupid game devs, don't make an fps with map design and flow from 90's but with next-gen graphics and physics. Is all that hard or potentially bad received by audience?
#127 Posted 12 March 2016 - 03:38 PM
Mike Norvak, on 12 March 2016 - 03:17 PM, said:
I still don't get why stupid game devs, don't make an fps with map design and flow from 90's but with next-gen graphics and physics. Is all that hard or potentially bad received by audience?
Are you talking Indie or AAA studios?
For AAA studios, making an abstract map like something from Duke or Doom with next-gen graphics would be a massive undertaking. Currently, you create assets to be as modular as possible, so you can save time by reusing assets. Most buildings are just giant rectangles, so all the building trim, doorways, windows, etc etc can easily snap together. But now, you are dealing with architecture that wouldn't exist in the real world, and in theory they would all be unique and you wouldn't be able to reuse assets as easily. This would require a lot of resources, especially because the demand of high fidelity graphics in a AAA game means more time than it would take for a small ~10 person team to make something similar with assets that are specifically toned down.
You also need a lot more people to make all these assets; one guy can't make all the textures, models, lighting, architecture design, item layout, etc etc anymore because it requires so many man hours. You will not see someone return to a AAA game in 20 years to release a new level like Romero did with Doom, because it won't be possible.
This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 12 March 2016 - 04:44 PM
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#128 Posted 12 March 2016 - 04:27 PM
Yeah I'd think the best bet for a good 90s style game is exactly what they're doing with the bombshell prequel. The areas look fantastic without a million polygons, dynamic lighting or high res textures. It's easier to get away with the golden balance of real life and abstract when you're using a lower tech engine and more stylistic as opposed to photorealistic graphics.
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#129 Posted 12 March 2016 - 04:53 PM
HulkNukem, on 12 March 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:
Are you talking Indie or AAA studios?
For AAA studios, making an abstract map like something from Duke or Doom with next-gen graphics would be a massive undertaking. Currently, you create assets to be as modular as possible, so you can save time by reusing assets. Most buildings are just giant rectangles, so all the building trim, doorways, windows, etc etc can easily snap together. But now, you are dealing with architecture that wouldn't exist in the real world, and in theory they would all be unique and you wouldn't be able to reuse assets as easily. This would require a lot of resources, especially because the demand of high fidelity graphics in a AAA game means more time than it would take for a small ~10 person team to make something similar with assets that are specifically toned down.
You also need a lot more people to make all these assets; one guy can't make all the textures, models, lighting, architecture design, item layout, etc etc anymore because it requires so many man hours. You will not see someone return to a AAA game in 20 years to release a new level like Romero did with Doom, because it won't be possible.
For AAA studios, making an abstract map like something from Duke or Doom with next-gen graphics would be a massive undertaking. Currently, you create assets to be as modular as possible, so you can save time by reusing assets. Most buildings are just giant rectangles, so all the building trim, doorways, windows, etc etc can easily snap together. But now, you are dealing with architecture that wouldn't exist in the real world, and in theory they would all be unique and you wouldn't be able to reuse assets as easily. This would require a lot of resources, especially because the demand of high fidelity graphics in a AAA game means more time than it would take for a small ~10 person team to make something similar with assets that are specifically toned down.
You also need a lot more people to make all these assets; one guy can't make all the textures, models, lighting, architecture design, item layout, etc etc anymore because it requires so many man hours. You will not see someone return to a AAA game in 20 years to release a new level like Romero did with Doom, because it won't be possible.
Indie games.
It's called "progress" lol.
I mean, not abstract based stuff but things like multiple routes, non-linear design...
Micky C, on 12 March 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:
Yeah I'd think the best bet for a good 90s style game is exactly what they're doing with the bombshell prequel. The areas look fantastic without a million polygons, dynamic lighting or high res textures. It's easier to get away with the golden balance of real life and abstract when you're using a lower tech engine and more stylistic as opposed to photorealistic graphics.
Unless the conceptual guidelines of the game allows for non-realistic environments, still not trying to be "retro". Minimalistic design hasn't been exploited to its maximum potential imo.
This post has been edited by Mike Norvak: 12 March 2016 - 05:02 PM
#130 Posted 12 March 2016 - 05:23 PM
Mike Norvak, on 12 March 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:
Indie games.
It's called "progress" lol.
I mean, not abstract based stuff but things like multiple routes, non-linear design...
Unless the conceptual guidelines of the game allows for non-realistic environments, still not trying to be "retro". Minimalistic design hasn't been exploited to its maximum potential imo.
It's called "progress" lol.
I mean, not abstract based stuff but things like multiple routes, non-linear design...
Unless the conceptual guidelines of the game allows for non-realistic environments, still not trying to be "retro". Minimalistic design hasn't been exploited to its maximum potential imo.
Simple answer for Indies is that they couldn't afford it. You'll likely see from the Bombshell Prequel (and hopefully my own project) that this type of design philosophy can still be done and done well, but expecting it to also look like Uncharted 4, GTA5, Arkham Knight, insert any other power house AAA game here, etc etc isn't feasible. You either fall into the former or the lather, balancing a seesaw.
Maybe the new Doom will prove this wrong. Hopefully.
#131 Posted 17 March 2016 - 11:27 AM
Minimalist game aesthetics are like tumblr noses. Everyone is doing it because it's easy and they don't have to try hard. Minimalist 3D is even easier, and quite frankly I'm amazed it's going as far as it is.
I mean, yeah, low poly is cool and all, but atleast ATTEMPT to make interesting textures, dammit.
image related, work from a project of my own. Make shit look cool.
I mean, yeah, low poly is cool and all, but atleast ATTEMPT to make interesting textures, dammit.
image related, work from a project of my own. Make shit look cool.
#133 Posted 22 January 2017 - 08:06 AM
Seems like we're getting two retro FPS in 2017... There's also Dusk (http://store.steampo...com/app/519860/).
Both look interesting, but I have a couple of reservations:
1. The emphasis seems to be more on the action and combat. I have the feeling that many people forget, is what made many old school fps great: the level design: Doom (Doom 2 not so much), Hexen, Duke Nukem 3D, Blood, Shadow Warrior, Quake 1 and 2... all had amazing level design... It seems both games Strafe and Dusk have more in common with Painkiller and Serious Sam: just killing everything in sight without much need for exploration...
2. Why are the graphics / models deliberately ugly ? I'm not asking for high end graphics or anything... But for comparison: Quake 1 had much better models.
It's why I'm greatly looking forward to the Bombshell Prequel... the screenshots just look awesome AND retro at the same time.
Both look interesting, but I have a couple of reservations:
1. The emphasis seems to be more on the action and combat. I have the feeling that many people forget, is what made many old school fps great: the level design: Doom (Doom 2 not so much), Hexen, Duke Nukem 3D, Blood, Shadow Warrior, Quake 1 and 2... all had amazing level design... It seems both games Strafe and Dusk have more in common with Painkiller and Serious Sam: just killing everything in sight without much need for exploration...
2. Why are the graphics / models deliberately ugly ? I'm not asking for high end graphics or anything... But for comparison: Quake 1 had much better models.
It's why I'm greatly looking forward to the Bombshell Prequel... the screenshots just look awesome AND retro at the same time.
#134 Posted 22 January 2017 - 10:41 AM
I'm looking forward to Dusk as I like some of the uniqueness of it's movement.
Strafe's procedural generation and the way the weapon system works turns me off completely.
*edit* This isn't to condemn Strafe at all. The original trailer is still really really good and the game itself will likely be well made and fun; but not for me.
Strafe's procedural generation and the way the weapon system works turns me off completely.
*edit* This isn't to condemn Strafe at all. The original trailer is still really really good and the game itself will likely be well made and fun; but not for me.
This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 22 January 2017 - 04:44 PM
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#136 Posted 28 April 2017 - 12:42 AM
That was probably pushed by Devolver. They did that chainsaw-katana thing with SW2. Not ideal of course.
I just saw a few minutes of gameplay, not impressed. The level was textured by fairly generic brown textures everywhere giving the whole thing a uniform, forgettable look. The level design looked average, with gameplay incredibly arcadey.
Clearly it's just a nostalgia-fest, why can't more retro-inspired games try to push the gameplay boundary, and create realistic locations? Games like Blood and SW weren't great because they tried to imitate Doom and Quake, but because they introduced new cool, fun weapon modes and other exciting features. We need the Bombshell prequel more than ever.
I just saw a few minutes of gameplay, not impressed. The level was textured by fairly generic brown textures everywhere giving the whole thing a uniform, forgettable look. The level design looked average, with gameplay incredibly arcadey.
Clearly it's just a nostalgia-fest, why can't more retro-inspired games try to push the gameplay boundary, and create realistic locations? Games like Blood and SW weren't great because they tried to imitate Doom and Quake, but because they introduced new cool, fun weapon modes and other exciting features. We need the Bombshell prequel more than ever.
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#137 Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:09 AM
It's like they try to do quake-like level design in small corridors that reminds me of doom3.. except done with low resolution assets that have some resemblance to earlier doom startan stuff.
Levels probably suffer a bit due to being set pieces that get glued together so you just end up with these arena-like layouts.. Kinda like cheap level generators or some cheap "make your own level" stuff from some console games.
Feels like people would have walked past this in the 90s.
Levels probably suffer a bit due to being set pieces that get glued together so you just end up with these arena-like layouts.. Kinda like cheap level generators or some cheap "make your own level" stuff from some console games.
Feels like people would have walked past this in the 90s.
- Honored Donor
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#138 Posted 28 April 2017 - 05:54 PM
The level was literally a brown texture pasted everywhere. There's a good chance that the assets are just place holders since the game is still in development, and for their sake I hope it is. Doesn't fix the gameplay though.
This post has been edited by Micky C: 28 April 2017 - 05:54 PM
#139 Posted 28 April 2017 - 05:58 PM
It comes out next month, there shouldn't be those kinds of placeholders that close to the end of development
#140 Posted 08 May 2017 - 09:45 PM
6.3 score from IGN
http://www.ign.com/a...9/strafe-review
If all the scores and reception are similar, it might be a good time to reveal the Bombshell prequel and go full force on the handcrafted levels aspect
http://www.ign.com/a...9/strafe-review
If all the scores and reception are similar, it might be a good time to reveal the Bombshell prequel and go full force on the handcrafted levels aspect
#141 Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:06 PM
From that IGN review I can see Strafe lifting from Doom level design already
#142 Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:41 PM
HulkNukem, on 08 May 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:
6.3 score from IGN
http://www.ign.com/a...9/strafe-review
If all the scores and reception are similar, it might be a good time to reveal the Bombshell prequel and go full force on the handcrafted levels aspect
http://www.ign.com/a...9/strafe-review
If all the scores and reception are similar, it might be a good time to reveal the Bombshell prequel and go full force on the handcrafted levels aspect
Heck, just reveal the prequel FPS so I can pre-order it and give Voidpoint some cash!
As a game developed on Build, and with a team who have supported a classic FPS community for years, I think they have the authenticity to stand apart from the rest of the 'retro' shooters that aspire to 1990's greatness. They sound hyped about it!
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#143 Posted 08 May 2017 - 11:28 PM
Lunick, on 08 May 2017 - 10:06 PM, said:
From that IGN review I can see Strafe lifting from Doom level design already
Well you gotta do something when you don't have level design of your own.
#144 Posted 09 May 2017 - 10:53 AM
Some more reviews, these ones are more favorable
8.5 from Destructoid: https://www.destruct...fe-435143.phtml
8 from Gamespot: https://www.gamespot...w/1900-6416677/
72 from PCGamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/strafe-review/
It's sitting at mostly positive on Steam, although those could change when people actually play the game. Seems a numebr of people on other forums either love it or hate it, the main complaints being that it feels off and buggy (which can be fixed) bad performance on PS4 (also can be fixed) or about it being a roguelike (which is subjective whether you like it or not).
Going to be a polarizing game.
8.5 from Destructoid: https://www.destruct...fe-435143.phtml
8 from Gamespot: https://www.gamespot...w/1900-6416677/
72 from PCGamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/strafe-review/
It's sitting at mostly positive on Steam, although those could change when people actually play the game. Seems a numebr of people on other forums either love it or hate it, the main complaints being that it feels off and buggy (which can be fixed) bad performance on PS4 (also can be fixed) or about it being a roguelike (which is subjective whether you like it or not).
Going to be a polarizing game.
This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 09 May 2017 - 12:21 PM
#145 Posted 09 May 2017 - 03:35 PM
HulkNukem, on 09 May 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:
It's sitting at mostly positive on Steam...
Oh no
#146 Posted 09 May 2017 - 05:44 PM
Now I come to tie loose ends!!!
I witnessed this game?s birth from the beginning. It was some dude called Pericolos at Mapcore, there for 2008/2009. He was like the elite of the elite guy who posted awesome virtual environments, and then all of a sudden he began to toy with prodecular maps on a retro-like shooter of his own. And here we are!
I witnessed this game?s birth from the beginning. It was some dude called Pericolos at Mapcore, there for 2008/2009. He was like the elite of the elite guy who posted awesome virtual environments, and then all of a sudden he began to toy with prodecular maps on a retro-like shooter of his own. And here we are!
#147 Posted 09 May 2017 - 05:49 PM
What was/is his position with Strafe, the main creator? Is he the one with all the marketing/video production experience?
#149 Posted 09 May 2017 - 06:19 PM
By giving a brief look to this thread: http://www.mapcore.o...afe%C2%AE-1996/ I believe you are right.
Anyway, I?m pretty sure these were brother projects then, as Pericolos was working on something that looked a lot like this and was based on prodecular maps. writting Gibhard on youtube doesn?t give me any relevant result.
BTW what?s wrong with apostrophes on this forum?
Anyway, I?m pretty sure these were brother projects then, as Pericolos was working on something that looked a lot like this and was based on prodecular maps. writting Gibhard on youtube doesn?t give me any relevant result.
BTW what?s wrong with apostrophes on this forum?
This post has been edited by Gambini: 09 May 2017 - 06:20 PM
