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Doom Corner  "for all Doom related discussion"

User is offline   FistMarine 

#3781

Back to Saturn X E2 is now an official addon!
https://www.doomworl...-ports/?page=33
https://twitter.com/...934149628289027

Also reply for few days ago (I haven't played anything Doom related this week, hopefully next week I will be back)

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Given my several rants on the topic by now, it should be no surprise that this then led to an immediate download (alas, I'm currently having trouble finding a keyboard/mouse placement for my wrists, so while I can't play it as of yet I at least wanted it downloaded and ready to go for when I am able). I don't know yet if the claim is true, but I am obviously compelled to investigate as such. Hopefully the results will be favorable, and if so I will be more than happy to keep this in my collection permanently. So long as the gameplay is solid, the bizarre aesthetic choices will have no bearing on my overall enjoyment (and as I said, I already have a soft spot for this particular aesthetic anyway).

A similar optimistic note was what drew me to the second as well. It's not done yet, but there is some grounds for being hopeful. The author is a newcomer (already a good start), and apparently has experience in Half-Life 2 and TF2 mapping. Given that the latter is a multiplayer class-based FPS, it at least implies that this person has some foundational understanding of gameplay. He even directly states that he's still learning how combat balancing in Doom works, meaning that it is something that is a concern for him.

There is, of course, no guarantee that it will turn out well. To my knowledge I haven't played any of his previous works, so I can't vouch for them. Nonetheless I cannot help but to be hopeful. My search for wads that can (theoretically, without luck) be beaten without foreknowledge is still ongoing with very few results. Any that meet this requirement are welcome in my collection.

I haven't played that particular wad by Nicolas Monti but I don't know if it's really going to be a good wad that you'd enjoy. I don't want to discourage you but I heard that the author's previous wads have some maps with plenty of cheap traps in them and some of wads also weren't properly tested in other ports than ZDoom (this isn't a problem in your case but I wanted to point out anyway, speaking as someone who prefers to play wads in the intended port), meaning that if you play in PrBoom+ you get stuck. I will eventually get to play his wads sometime and then I can judge fairly instead of making assumptions. I have so many wads to play...

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Good luck with the final level. It's complete trash with the works: Requires good luck, has completely unfair sections that require trial and error to survive, and to top it all off it doesn't even tell you what the hell you're even supposed to do to actually beat the damn thing.

Legitimately one of the absolute worst levels I've ever played since I started playing Doom.

And I have played a lot of crap.

Thank you for wishing me luck. I know what to expect from the final level of Double Impact as I have seen it on YouTube before, especially in past 5 or so months (after the wad became an official addon) and I still remember those cyberdemons at end and having to dodge until you activate all buttons, release 1-2 spider masterminds and make them fight each other so then you can finish the level, after getting past the hordes at end of course. I imagine it will not be pleasant but it will surely feel satisfying once you finish the episode!

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Yyyyyyyyyyyep.

As for the compatibility thing, to be honest, I actually have two zdoom setups. One with mostly vanilla settings enabled (again, minus the hitscan bug), which I feel are close enough. Plus, I'm not exactly going to miss the infinite monster melee range bug.

The other is a default zdoom setup with all compatibility options turned off, freelook engaged, jump and crouch bound and enabled (I have them unbound for the vanilla version so I couldn't even use them if I wanted), etc. I use the former for vanilla/limit-removing wads, and the latter for the advanced stuff (KDiZD, Tribute, Fall of Society, etc). I would make a boom setup too (zdoom is an extremely tiny application so having multiple copies doesn't even make a dent in disk space, especially with harddrive sizes of today), but I've not actually played that many boom wads, surprisingly. A few, sure, but not enough to warrant a whole setup versus just flipping the compatibility switch.

I understand. I would have suggested setting up Eternity for older vanilla/Boom wads but then I reminded you really dislike the hitscan bug. It's a shame because I personally think Eternity is an excellent and underrated port, that is vanilla yet modern at same time. The only two things that it lacks are automap stats (seriously, if the official ports can have automap stats, I don't know why can't Eternity as well) and proper compatibility settings, it has a compatibility options menu but it doesn't have complevels like PrBoom has. It will really benefit from having some compat levels, so it is possible to complete old wads like UAC_DEAD without cheating. There's always Chocolate Doom and PrBoom+ for these kind of wads, I guess.

This post has been edited by RunningDuke: 13 August 2020 - 09:10 AM

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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3782

View PostRunningDuke, on 13 August 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

I haven't played that particular wad by Nicolas Monti but I don't know if it's really going to be a good wad that you'd enjoy. I don't want to discourage you but I heard that the author's previous wads have some maps with plenty of cheap traps in them


I appreciate the warning, regardless.

That being said, I've already reached a questionable spot in the first level. Ironically enough it's the very same location that prompted the post monti was responding to in the quote. The dark baron room.

It's difficult to say if it's a cheap trap. I've been to it three times now and each time I'm left legitimately unsure if I could have done anything better (the sorry state of affairs when that's the highest praise I can usually offer these days). The problem isn't so much the "trap" part. It's the very tight arena filled with barons and some specters. There are rocket launchers there, but there's seemingly no way to collect them all to have the ammo to take them all down. And even if you could, the space is so tight, especially with the specters, that it seems almost inevitable that you will get stuck between the monsters and be unable to escape (since you can't use rockets at close range).

Even retreating to the one open spot puts you at the mercy of another baron, and even if you could dodge well enough to save it for later, first even getting there looks to be a crapshot, and second if you haven't collected every rocket launcher, you will not have the ammo needed to kill that wall of barons. If you run out, there is no going back for the rest.

I don't want to call bullshit on it yet, as it feels like I have to be missing something. But at the same time, I can't see any possible way to make that fight winnable without praying for good RNG. I'm pretty sure I've found every secret I can up to that point, none of them offering anything of much help besides a fullbright (which is really only useful for finding the specters so you don't accidentally suicide by rocket).

As it stands, I have no idea what the intended strategy is. IIRC the door locks behind you so you can't cheese it either.

View PostRunningDuke, on 13 August 2020 - 09:08 AM, said:

Thank you for wishing me luck. I know what to expect from the final level of Double Impact as I have seen it on YouTube before, especially in past 5 or so months (after the wad became an official addon) and I still remember those cyberdemons at end and having to dodge until you activate all buttons, release 1-2 spider masterminds and make them fight each other so then you can finish the level, after getting past the hordes at end of course. I imagine it will not be pleasant but it will surely feel satisfying once you finish the episode!


You're better prepared than I was, then. When I got there it was such a massive slap in the face. Thing was, the first time I played DI was when it was made an official add-on (I was playing on my PS4 since I was unable to access a computer at the time). That meant wrestling with the hitscan bug, the melee bug, and the less precise controls of a controller. It wasn't a graceful start, but I eventually managed to find a groove of sorts. Some of the early levels seemed a bit dumb (M3 and M9 in particular), but over time I started to enjoy myself.

Then M8 happened and I was about ready to break something. No idea what was in store for me, no idea what I was supposed to do, and totally unprepared for that kind of bullshit. It really ruined the entire experience for me. That I did start to have fun, not knowing how awful the finale would be, made that fact so much more sour.


Given that you seem to have a higher tolerance for that sort of cheapness, and know what you're going to get into, you probably won't end up hating it as much as I did.

This post has been edited by Ninety-Six: 13 August 2020 - 10:20 AM

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#3783


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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3784

God bless PBVs.

Also that's a surprisingly great recreation of the theater sign.
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#3785

Looking into the channel there are more ('til E1L4), i was curious about the Recon Patrol Pig Cops.




There are also recreations of maps from other games, but as the Authors are different, look like only the one who did Duke3D maps used the old style.

Doom E1L1 from another author was done in the modern way:



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User is offline   Malgon 

#3786

Decino has uploaded another one of his awesome yellow background Doom Analysis videos. Cool stuff as always! :)


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#3787

Ever wanted voxels in Doom? Well, there's a mod for that now:

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#3788

https://lbry.tv/@The...nBnDMKY2uYvdUJC

Author of No Rest for the Living re-released his Redemption of the Slain map for vanilla (non Brutal Doom) play. It still requires GZDoom as the map needs jump/crouch, has 3D floors and dynamic lights and other stuff... I still love this map. Luckily the "broken" part now is fixed and the ending is now much harder even on HMP (I played this way now).
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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3789

Well now that BTSX E2 is an official add-on, I gave it a download. I had no intentions of playing through it on a controller with the hitscan bug, but like I said a few posts back, I just wanted to know how the final level theme sounded in the port's music driver.


I have to admit, I'm kinda disappointed. I was fine with it up until now for the most part, but man the main melody in this song just falls apart with that sound. For those not in the know, that's called "Brightness." You can hear it specifically at 1:25



What I wanna know is why no other instrument set besides the generic wavetable synth can replicate that sound. I know from my own attempts to "remaster" midis that that particular sound is impossible to recreate. All other "Brightness" patches, including the SC-55 that the GWS was based on, just sound too "hard" for lack of better term. The patch in the WGS is a much "softer" sound, and in songs like these that depend on a soft lead, a hard sound just kinda ruins it.

I dunno, is there anyone more versed in midi music that can explain this massive discrepancy?

This post has been edited by Ninety-Six: 24 August 2020 - 10:26 PM

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User is offline   FistMarine 

#3790

View PostNinety-Six, on 13 August 2020 - 09:44 AM, said:

I appreciate the warning, regardless.

You're better prepared than I was, then. When I got there it was such a massive slap in the face. Thing was, the first time I played DI was when it was made an official add-on (I was playing on my PS4 since I was unable to access a computer at the time). That meant wrestling with the hitscan bug, the melee bug, and the less precise controls of a controller. It wasn't a graceful start, but I eventually managed to find a groove of sorts. Some of the early levels seemed a bit dumb (M3 and M9 in particular), but over time I started to enjoy myself.

Then M8 happened and I was about ready to break something. No idea what was in store for me, no idea what I was supposed to do, and totally unprepared for that kind of bullshit. It really ruined the entire experience for me. That I did start to have fun, not knowing how awful the finale would be, made that fact so much more sour.

Given that you seem to have a higher tolerance for that sort of cheapness, and know what you're going to get into, you probably won't end up hating it as much as I did.

Sorry, I forgot to reply for a while. I will watch the Decino video posted earlier (I watched every single informative video that he made, except the last one with Origins of Doom Sound Effects which I will watch in few minutes) but first I will reply to the above and the fact I played last week more Double Impact. I did E1M9 (secret level) and also died once but mostly due to my stupidity of rushing into a teleporter destination (thinking it would teleport me back) as I was being attacked by few cacos and demons and wasn't sure where to safely stay, only to fall into acid which drained my health fast (it was a 20 damage floor) and eventually died. Also while taking screenshots (when I successfully cleared the room where I died), I got sneak attacked by shotgun guys from behind the lift that lowered, lowering health eventually to 2% and I continued like that. Funnily enough I once used rocket (wanting to kill myself on purpose so I can retry the last save) and hit the zombieman a few meters ahead but only took 1 damage, so I survived with 1% health and I was like: "Really?". Then I continued like that as I appreciated how I even survived that much but it would have been even better if I did whole level without dying. At least I managed to 100% it! So far 2 deaths, one in E1M3 and one in E1M9. Not bad! I will continue the rest episode later. Oh yeah before I played E1M9, I did look at an YouTube UV max video so I came prepared because I wanted to see if there are inescapable rooms or not being able to return, as I don't want to miss any monsters/items/secrets but I think most of level could get backtracked, too bad I didn't save the soulsphere for the end of level and also had used most of blue armor, so I had to pick up a fresh green armor.

Also I appreciated you played Double Impact as part of the new port even if you had to deal with the hitscan bugs and whatnot, personally I would really like sometime to get into the new ports but I don't feel like buying a game I already own, maybe if they become temporary free like the Quake games did in past weeks. I also don't own a console, so I can't talk about the Switch and PS4 versions either. There are also the Android ports but I don't know how I will handle playing the game on mobile, if I were to buy them.

Yeah, I'm a bit more tolerant when comes to bullshit in certain Doom maps but I have my own limits too. It's interesting you said E1M3 and E1M9 were a bit dumb because these are also the maps I died (I wonder how E1M4-E1M7 are), I will probably rage when I reach E1M8 of Double Impact, like I usually rage when I play E4M1 and E4M2 of Ultimate Doom, I plan to replay Ultimate Doom as well (hopefully this time I will handle better those two maps and even doing E4M7 without dying, why is that map so annoyingly hard even though it really isn't that hard?) but that will be another time, maybe when I get a better/gaming laptop because I'm sick of the current one I'm using and it doesn't help much with arrow keys controls which I use when I play DOS games in DOSBox. The controls are slightly better in source ports where I play with mouse and WASD controls (and full mouselook, jumping, crouching in ZDoom based source ports) but I will appreciate having a gaming laptop to play all my favorite games and mods.

Also interesting about that map Redemption of the Slain, I will definitely check it out because I know it has been mentioned here several times, so I should check it out! Since it is a GZDoom map as stated, I will definitely play with modern controls (mouselook, jumping, crouching) as this is how I play ZDoom/GZDoom maps. I hate when mappers (in general) do a vanilla style map that requires GZDoom and say that jumping and crouching shouldn't be used and they even disable them, I wonder why? I sometimes jump over damaging floors or crouch under enemies projectiles or even jump above monsters if I'm surrounded, I hate whenever they disable jumping and crouching within MAPINFO! I don't like restricted movement if I'm playing on ZDoom/GZDoom ports.

Anyway, screenshots time! (Double Impact E1M9 and beginning of E1M4, note they are in backwards order)

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: etrn00.png
  • Attached Image: etrn01.png
  • Attached Image: etrn02.png
  • Attached Image: etrn03.png


This post has been edited by RunningDuke: 24 August 2020 - 11:08 PM

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#3791

I was just thinking that Castle (author of Redemption and the first half of NRFTL) would be an amazing Build engine mapper. His vision and style, his sense of realism would be a great fit to Duke (in fact, many parts of Redemption... felt like a Duke map in Doom's clothing). Skillsaw is another mapper whose style would be good fit to Duke, although I don't like the way he builds gameplay, ie. Valiant went into total slaughter carnage around level 10.

As for Redemption, the quality of the gameplay (not the design) drops around the end, when the map turns into slaughter on the bridge. The scripted shooters and the attacking cacos from the nearby towers was a great touch, but fighting with zillions of enemies gets old pretty fast to me. The cyberdemon + archvile ending was a killer though.
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#3792

There is currently a project over at the ZDoom forums titled "Doom II Re-Build-t" which is aiming for a recreation of D2 as if it had been done with Build. Once this is finished, I will definitely play it.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#3793

Oooh! Me too!
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User is offline   Lazy Dog 

#3794


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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3795

Looks like the summoner's back. Though it functions completely different now.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#3796

I love the Ghostbusters way to get rid of it hehe. Gives the Microwave Beam something to do too!
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#3797

Still hoping for full Denuvo removal before I get started with Eternal. Anyway, I wouldn't start with the DLC before it's complete. Maybe around Xmas. But nice they did a SP addon this time.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 28 August 2020 - 06:37 AM

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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3798

They did say SP was going to be their focus for additional content for Eternal.
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#3799

I actually knew it would happen, but due to the extreme heat this summer I also didn't feel compelled to play much in general. The trailer looks promising, but I think I'll rather do a second Ion Fury playthrough before I am slowly approaching Eternal.
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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3800

Between the denuvo and its brutal difficulty I can understand why.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#3801

Apparently Andrew Hulshult is confirmed to be the composer for the new Doom Eternal DLC. Must have come out in Hugo and Marty's live appearance at Gamescom. I didn't watch it. This is basically what I figured would happen. A shame things weren't patched up between id and Mick. But that's what happens.

Also, apparently The Ancient Gods will be a standalone DLC. Meaning you don't have to own Doom Eternal to play it. That's pretty neat.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 28 August 2020 - 03:50 PM

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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3802

Disappointing, but unsurprising. He's not a bad replacement, at least. I don't think he is quite as able to pull of the heavy grunge Mick can, but Hulshult's surprised me before, so who knows. I'm optimistic either way.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#3803

My bad, apparently it's Hulshult and a dude named David Levy. Never heard of him. Both are working on it I guess.
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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3804

The name rings a faint bell to me for some reason, actually... Can't name why though.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#3805

It's Levy's music that is showcased in the trailer. So we haven't heard anything from Hulshult yet. But I have high expectations. I wonder if it'll be jarringly different or the same enough.
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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3806

I'd say same "enough" is more likely.
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User is offline   Malgon 

#3807

I'm guessing this is David Levy?
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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3808

That sounds like the kind of place they'd pull him from. Makes sense.
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User is offline   FistMarine 

#3809

Yesterday, the Bethesda ports of classic Doom games got a huge update with a lot of QOL (Quality of Life) improvements and even Dehacked support! This means that the wads that use Dehacked can now be included as official addons. I wonder which wad will be added next. Maybe BTSX E3? Or a wad that relies on DEHACKED to work properly, so that we will get a Dehacked wad next to show the new possibilities? Only time will tell! I will have to also find the earlier post I made with suggestions for addons but in meantime, check the link below with all the changes:

https://slayersclub....ate-september-3

Additionally, these new ports made their way to Steam, updating existing Steam versions of Ultimate Doom and Doom 2! So those who own the games on Steam (not my case) can check out the new Bethesda ports! And I heard these new ports didn't replace the existing DOS versions, so you are given the choice between playing DOS and updated version. I hope they will fix other issues as well, such as those unreachable secrets in E4M3, E4M7, MAP15, MAP27 and many other QOL improvements. These ports seem like the definitive version of the classic Doom games, now if only we could get a proper remaster for Duke3D (maybe if someone manages to buy Duke IP off Gearbox), as well as Heretic/Hexen games and even the first Quake game, I would be infinitely more happy!

As for my Doom progress this week, I'm sorry to announce I have been sick and haven't played much other than an old ZDoom wad called Void. A few weeks ago I played the old version of wad (the initial 2003 release from DSDA website) in an older 2.0.52 version of ZDoom (which was the last ZDoom version without weapon centering bullshit that got introduced in 2.0.53) and recently I played the latest version of the wad (2005 release from idgames) in latest ZDoom 2.8.1. It seemed like it was quite a bit harder this time around, must be the new ZDoom physics that have changed all over the years because DoomGuy, uh sorry I mean ZDoomGuy in this case, moves a bit slower and kept getting killed by a fucking crusher trap in that monochrome room (I hate that room so much with its insta death bullshit traps!) but I eventually managed to pass that part after 10 or so attempts. I mean sure I could have crouched before that crusher got me (which kills you instantly the moment it touches you, not like Doom but more like Hexen, which the map draws inspiration from) but I wanted to try to do without crouching because crouching was added since ZDoom 2.1.7 I think. Didn't exist in ZDoom's early years. I may replay the map in ZDoom 2.0.98 because I found this version worked good for an old wad (that I also played few weeks ago in ZDoom 2.0.52) called RTC 3057 Hub 1 (demo version with first level, will do the full version soon) and I hate how everyone suggests ZDoom 2.0.63a to play old ZDoom wads but I hated that version due to how buggy it was. Found 2.0.98 to be much more stable for certain older ZDoom wads. Because I tried ZDoom 2.1.7 for early to mid 2000s wads and that outright refused to run RTC 3057 wad and ZDoom 2.8.1 runs the wad but it has the pistol bug, so you are forced to fight with your fists until you get the shotgun. As the RTC 3057 wad starts you without weapons, you can check the wad here and its bug explained as I don't want to clog the topic with pointless info:
https://zdoom.org/wiki/RTC-3057

Oh and last week I also remember doing Double Impact E1M4 and it was a lot easier than I expected, I had no problem doing that map 100% in all categories and ended with 200/200 at end of level! I liked it a lot better than E1M3 and E1M9.

This post has been edited by RunningDuke: 04 September 2020 - 12:15 AM

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User is online   Ninety-Six 

#3810

"This means less guessing if firing a rocket is going to aim at the enemy above you, or fire directly into your face, bringing about an untimely death."

okay wow that's a change I never expected to see. To my knowledge not even source ports have done this? That's...incredible. The autoaim has always been jank and even in more advanced source ports I've been killed because a rocket tried to hit a completely hidden enemy under a ledge.

Adding Steam support to those who already bought the DOS versions previously is also a surprisingly pro-consumer move. I was certain if they ever came to steam it'd have a price tag, which is fair enough but still.


I'm legitimately kinda blown away here. Still haven't fixed the hitscan bug but even without it the crosshair showing exactly where the autoaim wants to go is... like that's making me consider it. Again, since I like to play saveless, being killed because the autoaim decided to screw up has been a real annoyance.

If they add colored blood I'm probably not going to be able to say no anymore. (well that and a powerful enough computer to run the unity shell).
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