[deuxsonic]

Duke of Hazzard, on 07 April 2016 - 02:33 AM, said:

Which is really lame if you ask me. PC is capable of more, let PC have the best possibilities.

I totally agree. I miss the days of the focus being on a PC release that totally pushes things to the limit to where you need hardware that hasn't been created yet to max out the settings on the game. Now it's all about creating the experience on consoles first and the PC version is a port (sometimes a horrible one) of the console release. Since PCs will always be more powerful due to neverending upgrades, it makes sense to do something like Crysis where top-of-the-line PCs struggle to get every last bit out of the game and then port to the consoles. Both major consoles are x86 architecture now, so it should be easier to do ports than it was in the past. I don't want parity, I want to see everything pushed to the limit.

Lunick, on 07 April 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:

Talking about the new Doom is depressing, how about we look at some cool projects instead!

The Japanese Community Project is looking for some feedback on their recently released wad.



Some removed levels are being reinserted into GBA Doom


Jorts

I didn't know the Japanese even played DOOM. I know first person shooters are very unpopular there and admittedly I'm unsure why.

icecoldduke, on 07 April 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

I don't understand all the uproar with people and betas. I'm sure all the engineers working on Doom are working sleepless nights getting the final build polished and ready for us to play next month. I personally would prefer all resources be dedicated to shipping Doom, then delivering a "proper experience" with a build that only represents a small subset of the final game.

It doesn't require much effort to put out betas and the betas do represent the final game because the bugs encountered are fixed in what will become the RTM build. It's a working build of the game with a limited amount of content that allows people to play it and find bugs. The more testing you have, the better, and betas are the best way to do that as you've got millions of people playing the beta millions of different ways so bugs are found that a small team of QA testers may not find. It's a very serious problem with software nowadays where there testing is this afterthought so there is so much software out there with day one patches and disasterous launches where the PC version is buggy to the point of being unplayable for a sizable portion of users.

[Duke of Hazzard]

deuxsonic, on 07 April 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

I totally agree. I miss the days of the focus being on a PC release that totally pushes things to the limit to where you need hardware that hasn't been created yet to max out the settings on the game. Now it's all about creating the experience on consoles first and the PC version is a port (sometimes a horrible one) of the console release. Since PCs will always be more powerful due to neverending upgrades, it makes sense to do something like Crysis where top-of-the-line PCs struggle to get every last bit out of the game and then port to the consoles. Both major consoles are x86 architecture now, so it should be easier to do ports than it was in the past. I don't want parity, I want to see everything pushed to the limit.

Yeah, IMO one of the major reasons Doom made history was that it was such a groundbreaking game when released. It did things not thought possible at the time. That's what I readily associate with Doom.

When Doom 3 came out it was the same albeit in a lesser scale. Push stuff to the limit, make GPUs of the time bleed.

The new Doom doesn't seem to be that and doesn't seem to attempt to revolutionize anything, which is why I find it somewhat disappointing. That being said, I disagree with most old-schoolers' views on the game. I think expecting the ultra fast gameplay of the original is unreasonable. There's now a demand for "realism" which slows everything down and adds things that weren't possible/imaginable in the classic Doom. It will be different. But people dislike it because it's different, not because it's bad, and they're missing the point IMO.

[icecoldduke]

deuxsonic, on 07 April 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

It doesn't require much effort to put out betas and the betas do represent the final game because the bugs encountered are fixed in what will become the RTM build. It's a working build of the game with a limited amount of content that allows people to play it and find bugs. The more testing you have, the better, and betas are the best way to do that as you've got millions of people playing the beta millions of different ways so bugs are found that a small team of QA testers may not find. It's a very serious problem with software nowadays where there testing is this afterthought so there is so much software out there with day one patches and disasterous launches where the PC version is buggy to the point of being unplayable for a sizable portion of users.

Have you shipped a game before? You really don't know what your talking about . The "It doesn't require much effort" was a dead giveaway.

[deuxsonic]

Duke of Hazzard, on 07 April 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

Yeah, IMO one of the major reasons Doom made history was that it was such a groundbreaking game when released. It did things not thought possible at the time. That's what I readily associate with Doom.

When Doom 3 came out it was the same albeit in a lesser scale. Push stuff to the limit, make GPUs of the time bleed.

The new Doom doesn't seem to be that and doesn't seem to attempt to revolutionize anything, which is why I find it somewhat disappointing. That being said, I disagree with most old-schoolers' views on the game. I think expecting the ultra fast gameplay of the original is unreasonable. There's now a demand for "realism" which slows everything down and adds things that weren't possible/imaginable in the classic Doom. It will be different. But people dislike it because it's different, not because it's bad, and they're missing the point IMO.

Rage I guess is when I felt the old id Software was gone because the textures were muddy (the game was designed to run at 720p on consoles), the PC version had a lot of problems with texture streaming performance due to differences in architecture between the consoles and PC, and there were issues with video drivers at release. When Carmack initially talked about what was possible when textures are streamed in, about how you could have crazy detail because it was constantly being fetched and the possibility later on of doing the same thing with meshes, it sounded pretty exciting. What resulted from it though was a game many times larger than games with much higher-resolution graphics (20+ GB for Rage for those textures? Was it worth not repeating textures anywhere?) and pop-in. I'm hoping that with the new DOOM that they've really gotten a handle on it and that the textures even at their worst aren't mud. Something the Unreal engine has which I always thought was a great idea was detail textures, where a second texture is layered on top as you get close to a surface in order to provide more detail in the world. They kind of half-assed it later on with Rage, giving you the ability to apply a sharpening filter to textures and the "detail texture" was more like grain added to certain surfaces when you got close. Please let the new DOOM not be like this.

[PikaCommando]

Commando Nukem, on 06 April 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

The problem, and this is always a problem with pay-for DLC stuff, is you then create a schism in the MP community between the haves and have nots. This causes people to just start leaving the multiplayer scene because they don't have the same content as other players and they can't access all of the servers because of it.

This is too damn true. Just look at Call of Duty. Nobody will play the DLC maps. All the competitive players will only play on the default maps. I am doubting that the new Doom would be the main attraction at QuakeCon for long.

[Micky C]

deuxsonic, on 07 April 2016 - 01:37 AM, said:

Likely zero. A full map editor is way more than you could ever put on one of the console versions of the game and the publishers seem to always want parity across all versions of a game nowadays. Even using the full development tools, it's not easy making maps in id Tech 5.

I only asked because even something like adding sector-style prefab creation that'll allow players to at least make rooms in new shapes would go a long way to creating unique experiences. It wouldn't even be that hard on a console; just add some points to a screen and connect the dots. But yeah probably wishful thinking.

[deuxsonic]

Micky C, on 07 April 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

I only asked because even something like adding sector-style prefab creation that'll allow players to at least make rooms in new shapes would go a long way to creating unique experiences. It wouldn't even be that hard on a console; just add some points to a screen and connect the dots. But yeah probably wishful thinking.

Yeah, it's my understanding that it's like sticking rooms together as if they were Lego blocks, so you have a prefab section that's 4 walls, a ceiling, and a floor, and you're sticking those together. That's why I thought it might get stale quick, especially when you can't add anything new of your own. The scripting you can do with it (and all of this really) has to be simple enough that your average player on a game console can use it easily with a controller (which means you're not typing out anything) so I don't imagine it will be very powerful.

[icecoldduke]

So is there anything known about Doom Singleplayer? Like how many maps it will have?

[Micky C]

deuxsonic, on 07 April 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

Yeah, it's my understanding that it's like sticking rooms together as if they were Lego blocks, so you have a prefab section that's 4 walls, a ceiling, and a floor, and you're sticking those together. That's why I thought it might get stale quick, especially when you can't add anything new of your own. The scripting you can do with it (and all of this really) has to be simple enough that your average player on a game console can use it easily with a controller (which means you're not typing out anything) so I don't imagine it will be very powerful.

Yeah trying to fit content creation of any kind onto a console sounds pretty stupid and fundamentally flawed. That's what keyboards and mice are for. I don't expect the scripting to be anything more advanced than say than what can be done in Vanilla Duke without any added code. Although that's actually pretty powerful when used the right way so who knows.

[PokeThePower]

The scripting that we added to Halo 2 Anniversary was pretty decent... and Halo 5's Forge is darn powerful.

[Duke of Hazzard]

deuxsonic, on 07 April 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

Rage I guess is when I felt the old id Software was gone because the textures were muddy (the game was designed to run at 720p on consoles), the PC version had a lot of problems with texture streaming performance due to differences in architecture between the consoles and PC, and there were issues with video drivers at release. When Carmack initially talked about what was possible when textures are streamed in, about how you could have crazy detail because it was constantly being fetched and the possibility later on of doing the same thing with meshes, it sounded pretty exciting. What resulted from it though was a game many times larger than games with much higher-resolution graphics (20+ GB for Rage for those textures? Was it worth not repeating textures anywhere?) and pop-in. I'm hoping that with the new DOOM that they've really gotten a handle on it and that the textures even at their worst aren't mud. Something the Unreal engine has which I always thought was a great idea was detail textures, where a second texture is layered on top as you get close to a surface in order to provide more detail in the world. They kind of half-assed it later on with Rage, giving you the ability to apply a sharpening filter to textures and the "detail texture" was more like grain added to certain surfaces when you got close. Please let the new DOOM not be like this.

I remember there being grayscale detail texture packs for Doomsday way back in 2002. They did a good job of making Doom look a little more modern, but of course the Doom textures are so low in resolution that they didn't look that good up close.

Detail textures should take less memory to stream because they're mostly greyscale. However, you're speaking to the king of blur, who believes blur makes things a little more photorealistic, lol. I'll go for the sharpest possible that doesn't introduce shimmering. IMO sparkling is worse than blurry.

[leilei]

Detail textures are only really effective with variating surface textures like trims. Applying it to everything in Doom would be poor turning the world into food or paper.

[PsychoGoatee]

Here's a great recent video interview with John Romero: https://morgenbladet.../doom-og-musikk

Around 54 minutes in he answers his thoughts on Duke 3D, he mentions he loves it and even says it was the best game he had ever played when it came out. Pretty cool.

[deuxsonic]

leilei, on 07 April 2016 - 09:59 PM, said:

Detail textures are only really effective with variating surface textures like trims. Applying it to everything in Doom would be poor turning the world into food or paper.

I don't know how it would work in every case like for older games that look their best using nearest-neighbor texture filtering, but for Unreal/Unreal Tournament/Deus Ex and their sequels, it makes a big difference between having a small blurry texture stretched to fill the screen and having that with a visible texture to it. Later versions of the engine gained the ability to add multiple layers of detail textures as you get closer and closer which further enhances the effect. I would love to see other game engines use this trick as well (it would have been perfect for Rage with how low-resolution textures were in it but they basically gave up on the game due to ZeniMax orders.)

[Micky C]

Yeah it's nice when the content is designed for it, but applying it retroactively to older games isn't so great.

Serious Sam HD had detail textures and they looked pretty good. Serious Sam 3 (which came out after for those who don't know) did not. Croteam probably assumed that the textures were high res enough not to need the effect, which IMO was a mistake. Their latest game Talos Principle does use detail textures and looks better for it.

[William Gee]

Made some improvements, added difficulty settings, learned how to change music, improved gameplay and shading.
Next is to learn how to make outside areas and add textures.

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Attached File(s)

•  wgdoom.rar (67.67K)
  Number of downloads: 482

[Lunick]

William Gee, on 08 April 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

Made some improvements, added difficulty settings, learned how to change music, improved gameplay and shading.
Next is to learn how to make outside areas and add textures.

Hey, strangely you've given this window frame the same property as the ending is in Ultimate doom so it is damaging the player and skipping to the next level just by sitting in the window frame.



I also like all the new shading additions you have added

[William Gee]

Drats thanks!

[MetHy]

Well yeah the map is a bit better.

You might want to rebalance the armors though. The green one up there is pointless since there are already 2 other blue ones easily available around, it also doesn't make much sense that the green one is the one which is hard to get while you have 2 blue on the ground level.

Played it twice and the first time, when coming out of the room with the 3 set of doors after getting the yellow key, a wall had come down. 2nd time, that wall stayed up.

Also a little weird that the end game button is near the exit door rather than inside, after the door.

[Forge]

apologies if this 2016 trailer has already been posted - i looked, but didn't see it.



crappy youtube may require people to log in to see it, but it can be seen here without the hassle if you need an alternative:

http://www.cheatshee...n-2016.html/11/

[deuxsonic]

Take a look at the plasma rifle in that video and then the one in multiplayer... For some reason I can't wrap my head around the 2 different designs.

[William Gee]

Thanks for the feed back on the previous version of my maps.
Here is another improvement.

Slowly learning.

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Attached File(s)

•  wgdoom.rar (87.06K)
  Number of downloads: 523

[MetHy]

Cool, this is starting to look really cool.

The door leading to the blue sphere opened by itself and it looked pretty random to me, is it really supposed to be reachable so easily? It honestly made me wonder if a tag was working correctly.
I did like the Romero style scenery "if you can see it, you can go there" though; however the area after the blue sphere felt a little empty and useless?

There is a visual glitch involving this corner here





and I'm also not very found of the texture you used for trimming the stairs and ground here, it's functional but not good looking, it's too plain imo.

Also the exit area looks like it's pulling some kind of sorcery? It looks longer in the inside than it looks from the outside, when you look at it through the window.



BTW something wrong with that texture below the "exit" sign? And also do you really want the sign to repeat twice, it looks a little weird here, I know there isn't as much freedom with textures in Doom than there is in Duke but I'm sure it can look better. Very minor though.
But now that i look at this picture more closely, the texture on the right below the exit sign is misaligned; and so is the texture on the bottom side of the window.

[PsychoGoatee]

William Gee, on 11 April 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

Thanks for the feed back on the previous version of my maps.
Here is another improvement.

Slowly learning.

Groovy stuff! Also I forget you mentioned there were two maps, so it was a bonus when a second map was there too. Good fast-paced Doom fun, I like that you include plenty of ammo. Nice interconnected-ness and whatnot with enemies in interesting places in the second map too.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Hey, that Japanese map pack is really good so far. Very tough and testing, but then again, I'm playing on Ultra-Violence (and it's not Plutonia annoying).

[MetHy]

PsychoGoatee, on 11 April 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Groovy stuff! Also I forget you mentioned there were two maps, so it was a bonus when a second map was there too. Good fast-paced Doom fun, I like that you include plenty of ammo. Nice interconnected-ness and whatnot with enemies in interesting places in the second map too.

Ah, I didn't realize the 2nd map was in the wad too. Just replayed it pistol start, I thought it was better than the first time but I can't put my finger on why.

Small visual glitch here.
http://i101.photobuc...zpslkeinqk2.png

[William Gee]

Level 3 Started.

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[Micky C]

Excellent, all we need is M210's map converter and we have ourselves a new WGRealms episode

[Daedolon]

Finally some angles, which most usermaps are sorely lacking. Looks actually really nice, should play these as you release them.

[William Gee]

Some more improvements on Level 1

The new level I am making will be level 3

Attached File(s)

•  wgdoom.rar (103.39K)
  Number of downloads: 449