[Paul B]

Forge, on 23 March 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

yeah. don't be so negative.

sleep is over-rated

Well, I have to agree somewhat with Forge. Even though each passing day I keep tweaking my map after trying it out in Co-op / Death match and hearing my buddy complain about certain aspects. So I've made some corrections based on his feedback. But it would be nice to have some what of a time frame or deadline. I would hate to see a simple project like this take a year to finish just because people do not give their map enough attention. This isn't really fair to the group.

If I was Methy, I would say if all maps aren't completed by the end of May the project should go forward and launch June 1st. That should be more then enough time to finish. It has taken me 1 month to build my map and another month to play test and polish my map and i'm freaking slow at mapping. 4 months is being more than fair based on the size of the template.

I think Eduke Multiplayer will be released before some of these guys get their map finished! At least an update from those we haven't heard from would be a good start.

[Daedolon]

Does hurtfloor/lava etc work with aplayers? Based on how the light fixture is on the ceiling, you cannot have fake floor under every COOP player start in the template.

[Paul B]

Daedolon, on 23 March 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

Does hurtfloor/lava etc work with aplayers? Based on how the light fixture is on the ceiling, you cannot have fake floor under every COOP player start in the template.

I'm not sure what you mean by light fixture on the ceiling? Basically, any Duke start player that starts in/on the Hurtfloor tile sector on the floor will not start with a gun. Just expand your hurtfloor sector. As far as I know it has nothing to do with a light fixture. Really the starting with no gun should only really apply for Single Player. Doesn't matter as much with Co-op unless you're doing something special with the map.

You can do what I did for Death Match except for Co-op. Have the multi player Dukes start in their own small separate sectors off the map but just above a hurt tile and slightly above a 1 way teleport (SE 7). When the map starts Duke will start where you want him to based on the (SE 23) location, you won't even see the real start sector that Duke starts in because it will teleport too fast. Make the actual Duke start sectors have wall palettes of 4. The downside you will need to create 7 separate one way teleport sectors for each duke player for co-op.

Hope this sorta helps. =S

[Daedolon]

There's no room for aplayers because of the light sector, unless you want to push them next to the wall (unlike the default spawn) and have a mess of a starting area.

[Micky C]

I do agree with Paul B that people should try not to take too long with their maps. The whole point of a CBP is to get a map out relatively quickly. If you feel you're capable of making a decent map in a short period then you should sign up, if you feel there's a reasonable chance you might not be able to, then don't put your hand up. As someone who was sort of in charge of the last 2 CBPs, people who volunteer to map, then pull out later really screw up the organisation and generally make the CBPs take longer to release than if they never volunteered at all. People who volunteer then are never heard from again, or worse still volunteer, take their turn for the map, and then are never heard from again, are a real nightmare.

I know that this CBP is a bit different, but delays are still a relatively big problem. Once again these maps aren't meant to be the ultimate collection of perfect, uber-detailed masterpieces, but rather short, fun maps that don't take a lot of time to make.
In short, communication is essential, and actually mean it when you put your name down (I mean what's the deal with that bird guy, he joins the forums, signs up to the CBP, and then hasn't visited the forum for 2 months. Classic example).

[Hendricks266]

Between having little free time, never mapping before, and constraining myself to the CBP format, I have mapper's block. I've got this right now but I might not keep any of it.

[Cage]

Forge, on 23 March 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Who knows? Next week. Next Month. Next Year.
- Cage

I'm at the gameplay phase, so I'd say I'm at least 50% done. Sorry this takes so long, I'll do my best to make a push to finish it ASAP.

[Micky C]

Hendricks266, on 24 March 2014 - 12:38 AM, said:

Between having little free time, never mapping before, and constraining myself to the CBP format, I have mapper's block. I've got this right now but I might not keep any of it.

It's going to be difficult to stop the player from just walking on the lava to get straight to the exit, unless you do something like make the lava a giant teleport sector to an instadeth sector?

[MetHy]

Paul B, on 23 March 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

If I was Methy, I would say if all maps aren't completed by the end of May the project should go forward and launch June 1st. That should be more then enough time to finish. It has taken me 1 month to build my map and another month to play test and polish my map and i'm freaking slow at mapping. 4 months is being more than fair based on the size of the template.

I'm pretty confident things will be done by then.
Btw - about the DM points you mentionned (with teleporting), have you done that in your map? I didn't see them, maybe you mean another map of yours? What map was it? I'd like to copy-paste the principle to every map for co-op, it would save a bit of time than making my own, I guess I'll have to worry about the tags not being used in the maps though; i'll try use a random odd number nobody would use; is there a command to research tags in mapster (like you search a number and it tells you if it was used for a tag) ?

Micky C, on 24 March 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

I mean what's the deal with that bird guy, he joins the forums, signs up to the CBP, and then hasn't visited the forum for 2 months. Classic example.

He hasn't signed up for anything. His name isn't in the list yet (he's at the end with a questionmark) because he never gave a clear answer of whether he was in or not, his participation was never really taken into account.

Anyway I think that all the people who are suddenly getting impatient because their parts are finished should be a little more comprehensive. You wouldn't like having 3 other people telling you to hurry for your map. I believe this sort of attitude won't make the maps get done quicker and only ruin the mapping fun of the remaining participants. The whole point of this episode is to having fun building something fun all together, not to get it done as soon as possible, it's not a speed mapping contest, I never gave a time limit, and I will only give a (not too long) dead-line when everybody is done except 2 or 3 mappers.

Cage, on 24 March 2014 - 12:51 AM, said:

I'm at the gameplay phase, so I'd say I'm at least 50% done. Sorry this takes so long, I'll do my best to make a push to finish it ASAP.

Nice, you mean the visuals are done? Sounds like you're more along the lines of 90% then

[Forge]

i don't care about my part and that i'm finished. (throw it in the trash where it belongs)

i'm being antsy from a players perspective and just really looking forward to playing the completed project

it was suppose to be a little tease to poke at the mappers that were taking a long time or not posting any status, but i wasn't trying to be a dick about it,
things are lost in translation between intent and perception.

I apologize to the participants.

[ck3D]

Micky C, on 24 March 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

I do agree with Paul B that people should try not to take too long with their maps. The whole point of a CBP is to get a map out relatively quickly. If you feel you're capable of making a decent map in a short period then you should sign up, if you feel there's a reasonable chance you might not be able to, then don't put your hand up. As someone who was sort of in charge of the last 2 CBPs, people who volunteer to map, then pull out later really screw up the organisation and generally make the CBPs take longer to release than if they never volunteered at all. People who volunteer then are never heard from again, or worse still volunteer, take their turn for the map, and then are never heard from again, are a real nightmare.

I know that this CBP is a bit different, but delays are still a relatively big problem. Once again these maps aren't meant to be the ultimate collection of perfect, uber-detailed masterpieces, but rather short, fun maps that don't take a lot of time to make.
In short, communication is essential, and actually mean it when you put your name down (I mean what's the deal with that bird guy, he joins the forums, signs up to the CBP, and then hasn't visited the forum for 2 months. Classic example).

not trying to be an ass, really, but how old are you ? the way you worded things, it almost sounds like you are expecting everyone else involved to be carefree teenagers sitting in front of computers all day, with all the spare time in the world and the ability to pump out maps like machines. i currently work one, soon-to-be two, fairly time-consuming job(s), i also have a girlfriend i live with, several other semi-professional hobbies, trips and various life projects that need a lot of organization, as well as certain relatives who need close to constant care. i am sure i am far from being the busiest person on here either - are you implying that along with them, i shouldn't be part of this cbp, or any cbp for that matter, just because i have responsabilities and that such projects should be reserved to people with nothing to do with their time ?

i have been making maps for well over a decade, used to be able to map for several hours a day / night when i was in my teens, but those days are long gone. i personally get to squeeze in a few exceptional hours of mapping here and there during the week - so unless i want to release a new map once every five years or so, working on small-time projects like these is as good as it gets for me. now i definitely get your point in that joined projects really shouldn't drag on for too long, but this hasn't even been running for a while - it just so happens that you, along with a few others, have been real quick at doing your part. please show some understanding and patience, not everyone gets to be as quick as you were. also please keep in mind that as it's been brought up in this very thread before, not everyone gets to work with the latest mapster32 updates either. as for me i know that in the outdated version i have to resort to using due to technical limitations on my end, there are a bunch of modern options lacking, that definitely makes it tougher for me to cut corners - ie. copy-pasting spritework and stuff is practically out of question.

and even if we are using templates, what's expected from every participant here remains no less than a full map. pretty sure that if you only gave a couple of weeks / mapping sessions to a lot of the participants to do their part, you wouldn't get an 'ultimate collection of perfect, über-detailed masterpieces' indeed, in fact you would get quite the opposite. because a project is unambitious to an extent doesn't mean people shouldn't take the time they need with it to come up with something cool with quality design and interesting ideas / novelty effects.

merely throwing some food for thought here, please do not take my input negatively or even personally.

as far as my map goes i haven't been able to touch it in about a week, i keep adding detail whenever i get the time to though. the layout is pretty much 100% done, i just need to fill in some of these rooms and add gameplay elements. new ideas keep coming in and out, a lot of them i try to implement eventually turn out to be unfonctional and i end up having to ditch them - quite a waste of time technically speaking but at least it helps better refine the eventual outcome. (i have an idea for my car as well).

[ck3D]

i just noticed i hadn't read most of the posts in the previous page of this thread - sorry if some elements of my reaction in my previous post were inaccurate or out of the actual context.

also forgot to specify that i should have an exceptionally absurd amount of spare time for a week from thursday on, some of which is definitely going into my map - i am having a lot of fun working on this project and definitely want to keep actively polishing my contribution - i am not sitting on it.

MetHy, on 23 March 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

Don't be so negative. Metropolitan Mayhem took almost a year even though each map had to be made within 24hours. And it was totally worth it, too.

This is going very well in comparaison so far (and this project has more maps than MM, and some maps in MM aimed at something easier to build), and I'm sure people we aren't finished yet are not "sitting on it" but are probably generally more busy. Also 'current rate' doesn't mean anything, for example as far as I know it could take only one day for MRCK to finish his map if he was in the right spree and had the time.

metropolitan mayhem actually took just over two years. not saying it's a good example though, because some of the maps in that project definitely dragged on for longer than they should have and we all had to make do with a lot of extended dead periods and ideas / attempts that led to nowhere, it's definitely a part of the game though and has to be expected in the organization of most laid-back, fan-based projects

[MetHy]

Yeah MM wasn't a good example I admit

Also I forgot to say

Paul B, on 23 March 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

If I was Methy, I would say if all maps aren't completed by the end of May the project should go forward and launch June 1st. That should be more then enough time to finish. It has taken me 1 month to build my map and another month to play test and polish my map and i'm freaking slow at mapping. 4 months is being more than fair based on the size of the template.

and that is why you aren't me you can't ask people to finish by the end of may and expect release on the next day, finding the right map order and proper betatesting (I will probably ask 2 people other than me to betatest the episode), followed by fixing the new issues found, should take at least a week (even though I already have some ideas for map order). But anyway, we're not there yet.

[Kyanos]

Micky C, on 24 March 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

-clip-
(I mean what's the deal with that bird guy, he joins the forums, signs up to the CBP, and then hasn't visited the forum for 2 months. Classic example)

Quote

Hendricks266? bird?

I didn't realize that Bird was a real person here, I just thought Methy was calling Hendricks a bird

On topic though, I'll gladly help out and test this if you'd like, when the time comes.

[Forge]

i started this bullshit about being impatient, though i wasn't trying to make a serious issue of it. it just turned out that way.

blame me for even bringing it up.

please don't take my comments in earnest. it was supposed to be in jest; i know free time is precious to several of the people involved. i fucked up and should have kept my mouth shut. Sorry.

[ck3D]

no i think bringing up the issue is fine, at some point it's definitely okay (and, actually, completely normal) to wonder about when the finished product will be available. i just think there is a line to draw between mentioning it (like you did), and taking the question seriously enough to start considering putting pressure on the remaining participants just because they weren't as lightning-quick as some others (which some people were starting to do). glad to see that MetHy is aware of certain difficulties / restraints said participants might be dealing with, and happens to be the one leading the project.

[Paul B]

ck3D, on 24 March 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

no i think bringing up the issue is fine, at some point it's definitely okay (and, actually, completely normal) to wonder about when the finished product will be available. i just think there is a line to draw between mentioning it (like you did), and taking the question seriously enough to start considering putting pressure on the remaining participants just because they weren't as lightning-quick as some others (which some people were starting to do). glad to see that MetHy is aware of certain difficulties / restraints said participants might be dealing with, and happens to be the one leading the project.

ck3D I can relate to your situation and I understand where you are coming from. The difference between you and someone else making a map is you are making progress. Some people aren't and there's the difference. Even just the fact that you've provided a progress update is perfect as it shows you're still interested in the project which is important for the rest of us to know. I wasn't specifically targeting anyone with my response and Forge basically mentioned what every one was thinking. So its not his fault and there's no need to apologize Forge.

methy said:

Btw - about the DM points you mentionned (with teleporting), have you done that in your map? I didn't see them, maybe you mean another map of yours? What map was it? I'd like to copy-paste the principle to every map for co-op, it would save a bit of time than making my own, I guess I'll have to worry about the tags not being used in the maps though;

Methy, yes I did use a quick teleport sector in my map exclusively for the 2nd player start position in Death Match only. When the second player starts in the map it preps the map by activating a touch plate which causes a number of wall explosions around the map, adding new items and changing the maps dynamics for Multi-player death match. This will be completely trans parent to the player.

[MetHy]

Oh so you only did it for the 2Nd player. I'll use the same concept and do it for 4 players and and put it in every map (i guess for yours i'll use one less but how do you make sure the one with your touchplates changing stuff withint the level mandatory ends up the 2nd player and not the 4th player which wouldn't work in case there was less than that?). I just don't see the point of putting 8 players co-op point, nobody ever does coop with more than 4 total people AND those maps are quite small and narrow anyway so 4 players should be the maximum.

As for players who haven't been given updates I'm guessing you mean : Merlijn, Blizzart, Davox and Neoacix who have either never given updates or haven't in 5 weeks. A little update from you guys would be more than welcome indeed so we know where we're at!

[Paul B]

MetHy, on 24 March 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

Oh so you only did it for the 2Nd player. I'll use the same concept and do it for 4 players and and put it in every map (i guess for yours i'll use one less but how do you make sure the one with your touchplates changing stuff withint the level mandatory ends up the 2nd player and not the 4th player which wouldn't work in case there was less than that?). I just don't see the point of putting 8 players co-op point, nobody ever does coop with more than 4 total people AND those maps are quite small and narrow anyway so 4 players should be the maximum.

As for players who haven't been given updates I'm guessing you mean : Merlijn, Blizzart, Davox and Neoacix who have either never given updates or haven't in 5 weeks. A little update from you guys would be more than welcome indeed so we know where we're at!

Methy, don't worry about changing any spawn points on my map. I 've added all the necessary start location for Co-op and Death match already and tested. The only thing I will need help with is getting the midi file to play for my map.

From what I can tell player 2 always seems to start in the same start position however after the players die the start positions seem to be semi random. But i've only ever tested my map with two players at a time. I've also got a block on my level preventing the players from ending the level while in Death match. Tiggered by the same second player start position touch plate and it works pretty good.

@ Hendricks266 - That looks like one bad ass floor! Looks like a thinker map with puzzles needless to say it looks freaking hard! =P

[MetHy]

You don't get it, what I mean is every spawn point needs to have its teleporter, because every player should start weaponless at each level (otherwise it would be unfair for player1); and having a hurt floor for everybody isn't possible as it is in the corridor near the teleporter. So I'll add those to your map like any map. Actually even your 2nd player teleporter needs the hurt floor (I thought you meant you made the 2nd player start weaponless but it's not the case).

Edit :

Something else completely : I am thinking of putting a version of eduke32 with the final version of the episode (in the same rar file). The reason is that some people used different palettes for their enemies in their maps, and as you all probably know monsters with palettes other than 0 were made tougher in the latest eduke32 versions (which just doesn't work; and even if we tried to make it work at the moment and people with palette monsters put more ammo/health in their maps, i'm sure the palette behaviour is going to change at some point and therefore there would be too much health and ammo in those maps when they enemies will be back to normal).

The problem is, I'm currently using an old version of eduke32 (because of the monster thing, a version where there is no palette misbehaviour), the problem being that sound radious of ambient sounds doesn't work like it should in this version, which is also a problem in general but more particulary in several maps where there are things going around the level which the player is supposed to hear but doesn't always like he should (like the cars in mine).

SO - the question is, does anyone know if there is a version of eduke32 in which both ambient sounds and enemy with other palettes work well ? and if so, which? I don't feel like going through every revision of eduke32 trying to find something I may never find...

Or perhaps we should all make the enemies in our maps palette 0 only which gets rid of the problem and avoids even putting a version of eduke32 with the episode... The problem is that, at least in High Treason's map, in the 'otherworld' part of his map, monsters with different palettes look and fit better than with pal0.
Hopefully, a new version of eduke32 which fixes the enemy palette misbehaviour will have come out before we finish the episode; but just in case, if anyone knows of a said version of eduke32, please let me know.

I'm really thankful about eduke32, mapster32, and what its devs did for duke3D, but this is a headache due to the palette behaviour that really shouldn't be...

[Merlijn]

Hi guys,

sorry for not giving you an update for such a long time.. I have tried to create a level, but somehow I can't get any good results out of this template. It's frustrating, I guess it's a builders block or something. Add to that the little spare time I have (I'm in a situation similar to ck3d's, except that I'm also in a semi-professional band which eats up most of my spare time) and it's probably better if I quit and don't delay the project.

I'm sorry guys! All the luck with finishing this project!

[Paul B]

MetHy, on 24 March 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

You don't get it, what I mean is every spawn point needs to have its teleporter, because every player should start weaponless at each level (otherwise it would be unfair for player1); and having a hurt floor for everybody isn't possible as it is in the corridor near the teleporter. So I'll add those to your map like any map. Actually even your 2nd player teleporter needs the hurt floor (I thought you meant you made the 2nd player start weaponless but it's not the case).

Methy, I know what you are saying. I was talking Duke Death Match start locations not Duke Co-op Start locations. I will make the changes for the one way teleport to my map as my map is finicky with changes. Wall aligned sprites may disappear when new sectors are created, wall textures might get stretched upon creating new sectors. Let me handle my map and I'll make sure it works to your spec.

Thanks for your understanding.

Merlijn - I'm pretty disappointed to see you back out, please don't feel any pressure just do what you can. Maybe what you've done so far can be combined with another mappers template so you can at least have some contribution towards the project if you are unable to complete the entire template.

[MetHy]

Merlijn, on 24 March 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

Hi guys,

sorry for not giving you an update for such a long time.. I have tried to create a level, but somehow I can't get any good results out of this template. It's frustrating, I guess it's a builders block or something. Add to that the little spare time I have (I'm in a situation similar to ck3d's, except that I'm also in a semi-professional band which eats up most of my spare time) and it's probably better if I quit and don't delay the project.

I'm sorry guys! All the luck with finishing this project!

I'm sad to hear that but I understand. How much exactly have you built? Are you really sure you won't have time to put anything together at all? There are still quite a few weeks left.
If you're really sure you won't be able to make it, can you send what you've done so far anyway or is it not worth it ?

Paul B, on 24 March 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

Methy, I know what you are saying. I was talking Duke Death Match start locations not Duke Co-op Start locations. I will make the changes for the one way teleport to my map as my map is finicky with changes. Wall aligned sprites may disappear when new sectors are created, wall textures might get stretched upon creating new sectors. Let me handle my map and I'll make sure it works to your spec.

Thanks for your understanding.

Okay, good.

[Kyanos]

Quote

The problem is, I'm currently using an old version of eduke32 (because of the monster thing, a version where there is no palette misbehaviour),

I think it's back to normal atomic behavior now.

[Micky C]

@ck3d my post was more aimed at people who join up, then don't communicate, and later drop out (or never return to the forum at all). Both CBP 8 and the BCBP would have been released several months earlier if those people had just admitted early on that they couldn't follow through with their mapping.

Quote

As for players who haven't been given updates I'm guessing you mean : Merlijn, Blizzart, Davox and Neoacix

Out of that list, Merlijn and Blizzart seem to have dropped out (thanks for your honesty and communication). But it would be nice to know what the status of Davox and Neoacix is. Davox seems to check the forums somewhat regularly so a comment would be appreciated, but Neoacix hasn't been online for over a month. Given that fact and his low completion of 20%, I think it's safer to assume that he's out of the project until told otherwise. If he comes back later on with a completed map, fantastic we'll include it, otherwise we shouldn't wait for him IMO.

Just my two cents (and criticize my age if you want ) but I think a total development time of 6 months is more than reasonable for a project like this. We've used up 2 of those months so far. I understand that some people don't have much time, and in fact I probably wouldn't volunteer for this myself if it had started now instead of January due to my current workload, but there has to be some pressure to squeeze out a map, otherwise some people might never get around to it, especially when a two hour classic style map with a 2 minute play time would suffice.

Edit: I was also under the impression that the increased difficulty of pal enemies was removed in recent eduke32s.

[Forge]

Micky C, on 24 March 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

.... we'll include it, otherwise we shouldn't wait for him...

oh-ho. nobody told me this was a mufti-managed cbp.

does this mean i sent my map to the wrong project leader?


yes. it's intentionally inflammatory.
I find it amusing when you claim to be one of the best mappers ever. It's even funny when you walk on people's threads to make sure you get due credit for their work because you mentioned something to somebody three years ago and now you have the patent on the idea because you've never seen it before (even if it has been used before).\
But
It's annoying when you think it's okay to walk on someone's toes or make harsh comments on assumptions.
I like you for the most part, but you're turning into a mini-Mikko.

[Paul B]

Forge, on 24 March 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

oh-ho. nobody told me this was a mufti-managed cbp.

does this mean i sent my map to the wrong project leader?

Forge, it seems like you get enjoyment out of ruffling other people. Don't mind Micky C. he is always trying to take control and make everyone his mapping minions. Then again, he's wrote the book! =D Everyone should know by now that I'm element lead and that if anyone wants to play this CBP they better be ready to open their wallets to play it! I will accept any form of currency (Cash, Credit Card, Paypal, Certified Cheque made payable to yours truly). Someone has to pay for my over time and lack of sleep shesh!

[High Treason]

What kind of currency is that? Far too expensive. I'll pirate this for you cheaper, I accept blowjobs and handjobs.

Now you'll never be able to play this without that thought coming into your mind.

-----

On a more serious note, if you're modifying the starting areas Methy, remember to correct those sprite sector numbers with script_expertmode enabled, otherwise I'm willing to go back in and change the starting area myself but I sure hope this will be the last time I have to go in there.

It's funny, with Nitroglycerin I was on a roll at the end and really enjoying myself, I was even tempted to hang onto that for longer just so I could carry on but knew my work there was really done, whereas here I just want to write this thing off yet every day I seem to have to go back and tamper with it further.

[Micky C]

1. Those are just thoughts/suggestions/opinions based on the ideal scenario.
2. "We" as in we, all the collective mappers involved with the CBP.
3. Never claimed to be the best mapper ever or even in the league of the best. Don't get things mixed up with knowledge of specific skills like TROR.

It seems people are taking me too seriously/literally here and that's causing a bit of attrition, so from now I'll just sit back and let people get on with it...

In any case I look forward to the final product.

[Paul B]

Micky don't be that way! "We" all enjoy your comments and there is not much to tease you about! Damn Duke Forum Drama!

Getting back to the topic at hand, I hope this one way teleport scenario we are planning on using for Co-op doesn't introduce telefragging if two people die simultaneously? I also wonder what happens if another Duke Player happens to be standing on the teleportation sector that someone is being teleported to? My guess is Telefragging in Co-op mode?

Maybe, this isn't a great solution on a larger scale? I was only using it for one player not an entire team of 8 Dukes. Feedback on this topic would be appreciated before we get too carried away. We might have to resort using the hurt tile for all Co-op players without one way teleporting.

Suggestions?

**UPDATED **

According to the Mapster Bible: Duke3d Infosuite:

"Standard/One-Way Teleporters allow "telefragging" of other players who happen to be within the destination sector at the time of teleportation, whether or not they are touching the floor of the sector. The destination sector(s) should be reasonably small to avoid unintentional telefragging accidents."

I'm also curious to know why it really matters having Co-op Dukes start with a pistol in hand? Does it make that much of a difference to the levels? I can see the reasoning behind single player but for Co-op it shouldn't be much of a show stopper should it?

Next question: What is the smallest size sector Duke can physically start in? As long as his multi-player PlayerA sprite fits in the sector will Duke survive? Or should this sector be a certain size? I've noticed that if the sector is too small Duke can't crouch over the sector without being blocked.