[Forge]

ck3D, on 28 February 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

as for me i couldn't manage any mapping time this entire week with the exception of one or two hours here and there, still got some decent progress though, i'd say it's about 40% done now, however i have to say that i just took a look at everyone's screenshots and ideas in this thread so far and although i used to think my map looked cool enough, now i find it kind of bland and uninspired in comparison. Everyone is just too good of a mapper nowadays... I most likely will be able to work on the rest of the map this week, hopefully i can use the remaining 60% to take it to higher standards...

i call bullshit
i can only wish for your skills

at about the same point in progress. 40-50%
hoping to finish by the end of next week. maybe sooner time permitting.

[MetHy]

I've been very inspired for the rest of my map. So far I've pretty much finished the entrance, the building manager's office, and the security room. I think all these look cool (although the security room could have been better with better planning beforehand, the problem is that I got most of the ideas for it only after half of it was already done). I've starting making a (very ugly) laundry. I have however space for another room left, I'm thinking of doing a trash storage/sorting room, like, pretend trash comes down through the walls from different floors (like you see in old american movies and tv shows) and have it fall in containers or on convoyer belts etc, like it's the whole building trash system. Anybody got a better idea?
Since space/layout/architecture is quite limited I'm concentrating the 'cool' of the map on interactivity with the surroundings. Like being able to use machines etc

[Steambull]

I just need to build on the last small empty area in the corner of my map (that's where the blue card will be), and then do some testing.

[Paul B]

Steambull, on 01 March 2014 - 05:13 AM, said:

I just need to build on the last small empty area in the corner of my map (that's where the blue card will be), and then do some testing.

It's nice to hear about all the progress. Keep it up guys! Can't wait to see this episode in full swing!

[ck3D]

Forge - in all honesty i don't think i have any special mapping skills whatsoever nowadays. if anything i might have a knack for atmosphere through texture / palette selections, but that's pretty much it. i can do basic architecture- and sprite-work, but everyone starts out mapping and learns how to do it too right off the bat nowadays. it is as though bobsp- and roch-styled mapping aesthetics had become a standard, usually with gameplay qualities to boot. what i have consciously been trying to improve over the past few years is my 2d map layouts, as well as focusing on cleaner design choices in general and favorizing room interconnections, but again nowadays everyone takes such things for granted as 'basics'. i regard myself as a pretty washed out mapper, really - and the mapping work i have seen from you is definitely on par with mine, if not blatantly superior in certain aspects.

anyway i worked on this some more today, the map is definitely 50% done now. i am done with the sushi bar, its respective kitchen and storage rooms and half of the main hallway that circles through my mall. i just made a café / coffeeshop in a handful of hours, which i think looks ok. posting a screenshot in order to 'celebrate' - i made sure it wouldn't give much away. starting to implement some duke humor / inside jokes as well, ideas for which seem to pop up spontaneously while mapping on the go, making the whole building process more enjoyable than usual. so glad to find a few spare hours here and there to work on a project like this which isn't excessively ambitious - it reminds me of how i would feel while making my maps for metropolitan mayhem, just plain fun !

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[Forge]

ck3D, on 03 March 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

it is as though bobsp- and roch-styled mapping aesthetics had become a standard, usually with gameplay qualities to boot. i regard myself as a pretty washed out mapper, really - and the mapping work i have seen from you is definitely on par with mine, if not blatantly superior in certain aspects.

i fall right into that roch-style aesthetic mold; it's just the way i developed. i'm a replaceable cookie-cutter mapper; there are a dozen more out there with the same style who do it better than i can. what you do is unique; i'm the has-been (never-was)

ck3D, on 03 March 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

Forge - in all honesty i don't think i have any special mapping skills whatsoever nowadays. if anything i might have a knack for atmosphere through texture / palette selections, but that's pretty much it.
what i have consciously been trying to improve over the past few years is my 2d map layouts, as well as focusing on cleaner design choices in general and favorizing room interconnections, but again nowadays everyone takes such things for granted as 'basics'.

which your skills are far superior to mine. my shit looks bland, sterile, and plays like it's been slapped together with no flow

ck3D, on 03 March 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

anyway i worked on this some more today,....

and that simple screenshot makes everything i've done look amateurish

you're fooling nobody with your modesty

[MetHy]

ck3D, on 03 March 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

*screenshot*

Funny, I used the same light texture which I put inside a small similar slopped ceiling at a border of a room in my map! Anyway this looks really good. The whole place looks just right : at the same time 'clean' and 'busy' enough, if you see what I mean. Right ammount of details and texture combinaison.
The texture at the back around the door (the one with small grey and green squares) looks like it's not perfectly aligned though, some squares are weider, some thiner, half a square on the leftward side.
I wonder how you did that red glow above the door.

I hope the player will be able to order his own sushi!

and finally nice to see some good progress here, my map isn't even at the 50% mark yet. I've had a little time to continue this week end on my laundry (which now doesn't look AS bad anymore but still not satisfied with it) but that's it. Work takes half of my time, life another quarter, and for the rest I'm generally too tired to be have motivation and inspiration for anything creative... But i'm slowly getting there. I'm hoping to have both maps done by the same time the other last mapper is done

[Paul B]

By the time Methy gets his map finished my maps going to look dated and old. =P

Just so everyone knows, this will be my second CBP venture since Parkade.map. Back in the day when I use to map with Micky C. and he use to boss me around alot. What's nice about a project like this is I don't end up being Micky's bitch. But it would be nice if we are able to get this CBP done before spring and the warm weather flies. =)

But, no pressure, I'd rather have a solid release then have people rush through it just to release something. From the screenshots thus far it has been nothing short of high quality mapping with the exception of ck3d's screenshot. What were you thinking? I'm pretty sure Micky C has a tutorial around here that can help you out ck. haha! Just teasing. Nice work!!! You've got an eye for greatness! Keep it up!

[Sixty Four]

Cool i do some mapping myself but i would like to see what you guys make with this one. I even downloaded the template just to have a look, seems to be a good layout. Maybe i would get involved in one of these someday. For now i just want't to see and play the map, because i'm very busy with a new one myself. But hey cool idea hope the map turns out good can't wait to see

[MetHy]

To HighTreason : so do you now know for sure wether you'll have to drop out or not?
If you are, is anybody willing to pick on his map and finish it? Preferably someone who hasn't already made a map or isn't already working one but I guess anything goes.
That Silent Hill inspired library looks fantastic to me (and something like that has never been done like in Duke3D) so it'd be a shame to lose it. Hopefully someone can pick it up and finish it in the same spirit and style, with as much attention to details (I love how for example he used two different 'triangle' shape textures above the windows for both versions of the room). I'm a fan of both games so it's something I'd love to play.

As for me I'm reaching the 50% mark for the lobby map.

[Forge]

construction done. everything seems to work on the dry run.

need to add enemies and supplies, test, & call it done.

i'll submit it probably tomorrow or Friday

now i remember why i quit mapping in the first place. i'm seriously lacking in the creativity and inspiration department. pretty much had to force myself to push through and finish. left quite a bit of simplified and amateurish stuff in it that i couldn't motivate myself to fix/change. don't expect too much.

[High Treason]

MetHy, on 04 March 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

To HighTreason : so do you now know for sure wether you'll have to drop out or not? Etc...

I should know within the next two days, I was going to just post the map a couple of days back but I'm making one last ditch attempt to get a machine working. The map will probably be very simplistic and short if I do finish it though, but there's at least one effect I don't think has been used before.


If the machine doesn't work, I'll post it up and leave it to somebody else to mess about with.

[ck3D]

Forge, on 03 March 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

i fall right into that roch-style aesthetic mold; it's just the way i developed. i'm a replaceable cookie-cutter mapper; there are a dozen more out there with the same style who do it better than i can. what you do is unique; i'm the has-been (never-was)



which your skills are far superior to mine. my shit looks bland, sterile, and plays like it's been slapped together with no flow



and that simple screenshot makes everything i've done look amateurish

you're fooling nobody with your modesty

let's agree to disagree then - i think everyone is being their own worst critic. i know i can definitely sense personal style in your maps, whether or not they borrow certain elements from established styles of mapping is not important - every map / mapper / general artist does it to some extent, then the key is to use those influences with a touch of science in order to come up with something organic, and add your own personal twist to them, something at which i find you successful in your mapping work. your released map series, as well as some of the unreleased stuff you have showed me before, do not, in my opinion, fall into the cookie-cutter map category, they have that flair - i probably find them as 'unique' as you find my maps to be - it's just harder to feel for the person who has made them.

about the screenshot, i have reviewed some of your maps before and thus taken screenshots of sections of them that really looked just as good as what i just posted, if not better - my room is just a pretty empty room with fairly basic construction, and a touch of detailing - you've made areas that were definitely superior to that in your own maps. don't be so harsh on yourself.

i personally consider myself as washed out as a mapper because technically, i can't do any of the advanced stuff. be it novelty effects (TROR and the like), advanced construction / architecture work à la Last Pissed Time (first map to come to mind right now, might not be the best example), or even some of the original, average-to-complicated effects. you would be surprised by how i could barely make a simple functioning sliding door work, or implement certain basic light effects, etc. without looking at a guide first although i have been making maps for over a decade. of course i am improving along the way, but i am still as limited as the next guy, there is so much simple stuff i can't do. i consider people who manage to implement crazier technical stuff without sacrifying aesthetics (and they are dime a dozen nowadays) as much better than me, on the technical side. then (and that's when i will stop being modest) we all know the best maps rarely happen to be the most technically-advanced, fancy-looking ones. it just happens to be the field in which i am dabbling, due to not being able (or not having the deep will) to learn other things and expand my abilities beyond that spectrum. that being said, it's all fine - there are other, more important things i life i would be more concerned about being 'washed up' at, i make maps for fun and it's all that counts to me !

[ck3D]

MetHy, on 03 March 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Funny, I used the same light texture which I put inside a small similar slopped ceiling at a border of a room in my map! Anyway this looks really good. The whole place looks just right : at the same time 'clean' and 'busy' enough, if you see what I mean. Right ammount of details and texture combinaison.
The texture at the back around the door (the one with small grey and green squares) looks like it's not perfectly aligned though, some squares are weider, some thiner, half a square on the leftward side.
I wonder how you did that red glow above the door.

I hope the player will be able to order his own sushi!

and finally nice to see some good progress here, my map isn't even at the 50% mark yet. I've had a little time to continue this week end on my laundry (which now doesn't look AS bad anymore but still not satisfied with it) but that's it. Work takes half of my time, life another quarter, and for the rest I'm generally too tired to be have motivation and inspiration for anything creative... But i'm slowly getting there. I'm hoping to have both maps done by the same time the other last mapper is done

thanks for the advice / feedback. in all honesty though the texture looks just fine in the editor - it is trimmed and scaled the correct way. i think it only looks wrong in the screenshot due to the awkward perspective, different shade values, and bad image rendering. i'll make sure to double check next time i get to edit the map, though, in case something escaped my attention.

[Forge]

ck3D, on 06 March 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

let's agree to disagree then -

we're going to have to, (but i bet blind poll results would show i'm "more" right)

ck3D, on 06 March 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

i personally consider myself as washed out as a mapper because technically, i can't do any of the advanced stuff.

if that's the "qualifier" then i'm right there next to you. none of my maps have "advanced" technical work. i get suckered into mapping every once in awhile, but not enough to sit down and learn tror, scripts, or se/st tweaks.

[Jblade]

I think you're all taking mapping far too seriously and I say that as someone who's been modding this game since before the millennium

[Forge]

i'm not taking it too serious. just stating the facts sir. ck3d is a far superior mapper than i am.

his measuring stick for quality appears to include the need for "advanced" effects and construction techniques which can add greatly to the interactivity of the level, but are moot if the player can't become immersed in the environment and navigate through in a "logical and uninterrupted" manner

he has a flair for creating very nice atmospheres and a smooth flow to his levels that I lack in comparison.

i would attribute this to ck3d being more creative and artistic than myself.

we would look at the same building with two different perspectives. i would be more prone to notice the size, layout, and other physical attributes first, but i believe ck3d would see the mosaics, textures, color combinations, where the light and shadows fall, and other nuances that give the atmosphere first.

[Jblade]

I don't see much point in comparing myself to other map authors. The best authors for me personally are tied between Geoffrey and Rusty Nails. Geoffrey was perfect at creating detail but could easily scale the amount up or down flawlessly depending on what he was trying to create, and the gameplay of his maps were solid as well. His Fakir3D had amazing atmosphere and he knew exactly how to use textures to 100% perfection. Rusty was the best author I've seen at creating a story through details in the level, and knew how to make detailed areas (and relatively bare areas detailed through clever sprite+texture work) He also had a lot of ambition. Ultimately being able to draw helps a great deal towards level design, you don't need to but I don't feel it's a co-incidence that the best authors are also artists or architects in real life as well.

If I compared my stuff to their stuff I would never build again. You just have to build what you want to, with what you feel satisfied with. The majority of authors here can build more detail than me, although I'm ashamed to admit I have a short attention span so I find it difficult to work on one location for very long. That doesn't affect me when I'm mapping though since I have an idea in mind and I accomplish it, rather than trying to satisfy a detail or atmosphere quota.

[MetHy]

Geoffrey is great but there is no toping William Gee. WGRealms 1 is the greatest thing ever made for Duke3D and I doubt it will ever be topped.

Anyway back to topic - Forge's map is done and it's good. Mikko is about 50%.

[Jblade]

We're really gonna have to disagree there, with all respect to Gee I thought the texture choices were incredibly eclectic and it never seemed to center on a proper theme. I can't remember liking the gameplay much either. If we're gonna go with classic Duke TCs than PyP2000 is my favourite of them all.

good to hear there's been some more progress made!

[MetHy]

Okay I just asked Ancient Coffee Bean and he said he gave up on his map.

So, the 'horror' theme is now free.

[Forge]

James, on 06 March 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

I don't see much point in comparing myself to other map authors.

yea. i opened that door. it wasn't my intention, but ck3d started expressing that he is a washed up mapper and i reacted by disagreeing and devolving it to comparing his skills to mine. That was a poor choice on my part; I should have went with how many people enjoy his creations both for the game flow and immersive atmosphere. Fancy tricks and advanced construction aren't necessary when he can make maps that don't need them.

my skills, or lack thereof, are not held up against other mappers when i make the decision not to create more levels. I can make maps that are at least tolerable by a good portion of the players (using the given feedback over the years as the gauge - more positive than negative comments). Some like them, some hate them, but that's also a non-issue.
I just lack creativity, motivation, and determination. I don't find it "fun" anymore.

[stumppy84]

I thought it would be kinda funny to edit the Die Hard poster for Duke Hard. I thought it might be included in one of the Steam community level Screen-shots to attract more attention to the project...
I'm obviously not a photo-shop pro but I took a quick shot at it.. Go ahead If anyone wants to improve upon it..

[Paul B]

stumppy84, on 06 March 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

I thought it would be kinda funny to edit the Die Hard poster for Duke Hard. I thought it might be included in one of the Steam community level Screen-shots to attract more attention to the project...
I'm obviously not a photo-shop pro but I took a quick shot at it.. Go ahead If anyone wants to improve upon it..

Duke_HARD_POSTER.jpg

Great Job! I think its perfect!

[Micky C]

Yeah it's good, but what if some day someone actually wants to make a map directly inspired by Die Hard?

[Jblade]

Micky C, on 06 March 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Yeah it's good, but what if some day someone actually wants to make a map directly inspired by Die Hard?

Tough shit?

[MetHy]

I like it we could definitly use it

In other news Mikko's map is 99% done as well.

[Micky C]

MetHy, on 06 March 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Mikko is about 50%.

MetHy, on 07 March 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

Mikko's map is 99% done as well.

Maybe the other mappers could learn a thing or two from Mikko

[MetHy]

Well half of the map is just the symetry of the other so that got done quick. Also the map is bit shorter than others. This being said it's still really fast.

[Micky C]

It also depends on the quality of the map. Mikko tends to favour clean design with solid trimming rather than excessive details.