[Revanchist]

You know what I'm talking about.


So... Your opinion on it. Just what the *bleep* is up with that line? Is it REALLY meant to be a joke and a joke by the character, not just the writers making him say that line and by juxtaposition it becomes a "joke"? Was it just an expression of bemused surprise? What was it? I'm playing this game right now and of all the stuff to put up with, this is what bothers me to no end, so much that I stopped playing and I'm trying to find a way for myself not to declare Duke an irredeemable a-hole I never want to play again as.

[Kathy]

It obviously was an attempted joke.

And make no mistake - Duke is an assholish douche in this game.

[♥Coraline♥]

Revanchist, on 09 January 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

You know what I'm talking about.


So... Your opinion on it. Just what the *bleep* is up with that line? Is it REALLY meant to be a joke and a joke by the character, not just the writers making him say that line and by juxtaposition it becomes a "joke"? Was it just an expression of bemused surprise? What was it? I'm playing this game right now and of all the stuff to put up with, this is what bothers me to no end, so much that I stopped playing and I'm trying to find a way for myself not to declare Duke an irredeemable a-hole I never want to play again as.

I didn't think this was a big deal - the second statement clearly states that Duke was pissed that it happened. Nothing about the initial line came off offensive to me in the slightest (technically, the statement is true). If Duke didn't comment again then yeah, I'd be upset, but....he was clearly vengeful that it happened. I thought the line was appropriate given the lines and context of the women themselves (you didn't find them annoying in the intro/etc)?

Maybe I have a realistic wall against that, but I was appalled that it became such a big deal in the first place. It's a videogame, an outdated one, maybe it was more appropriate when the game was designed at a much earlier time.

So, relax! :3 Keep playing. Duke could've said something worse like, "Serves them right for cheating" or something, but he didn't. The humor just wasn't on par for a game released at the time.

[Kathy]

Coryyne, on 09 January 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

I thought the line was appropriate given the lines and context of the women themselves (you didn't find them annoying in the intro/etc)?

Quote

It's a videogame, an outdated one, maybe it was more appropriate when the game was designed at a much earlier time.

Most(all?) of the lines were recorded once Gearbox took over.

[Revanchist]

At least there's that.

Quote

So, relax! :3 Keep playing. Duke could've said something worse like, "Serves them right for cheating" or something, but he didn't. The humor just wasn't on par for a game released at the time.

Well thank *bleep*ing god he didn't. Then there would be no argument, he really would be irredeemable.

Yeah, the second line takes some of the insult away from the injury... but really, what was that, why?

Quote

It obviously was an attempted joke.

And make no mistake - Duke is an assholish douche in this game.

The question is a joke by who, by just the writer or both writer and Duke. The tone is not completely the same as is with other one-liners in the game... but it's similar.

Quote

Most(all?) of the lines were recorded once Gearbox took over.

Why am I not surprised?

[Lunick]

Cringeworthy

[Micky C]

IIRC women wrote the story and jokes for this game, so did women actually come up with this scene?

(Btw it's never a good idea that women should be writing for what's supposed to be the most masculine guy on the planet. It's probably half the reason he turned out such a metrosexual douche).

[♥Coraline♥]

Kathy, on 09 January 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

Most(all?) of the lines were recorded once Gearbox took over.

Are you sure? I thought that the lines were recycled from an earlier version or brought from what was done and re-recorded to make the voice consistent. Regardless, it doesn't matter either way.

Revanchist, on 09 January 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

At least there's that.Well thank *bleep*ing god he didn't. Then there would be no argument, he really would be irredeemable.

Yeah, the second line takes some of the insult away from the injury... but really, what was that, why?
The question is a joke by who, by just the writer or both writer and Duke. The tone is not completely the same as is with other one-liners in the game... but it's similar.Why am I not surprised?

It really isn't a big deal. I fail to see how that line caused people to boycott the game, other issues notwithstanding. Like I said, what Duke said was...well sort of true.

Was it unforgivable that you could KILL hookers in 3D? You didn't have to kill them, and you don't have to kill them in this game. All that's added was a conversation. Maybe not a tasteful one in the eyes of the beholder, but it wasn't like he wished death upon them either. TBH I was glad to be rid of them: if anyone has terrible voice acting/lines, it's the Holsom twins. Their presence was more of an insult to injury than all of Duke's attitude in that game. :3

And who cares? It's Duke. He's never been without controversy of some kind. Even though he was an ultimate badass in 3D, I remember plenty of people having issues with what he said/did/etc in that game, and that was the nineties!

[Hendricks266]

Revanchist, on 09 January 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

*bleep*

You can curse here.

[Revanchist]

Plain Simple Garek, on 09 January 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

IIRC women wrote the story and jokes for this game, so did women actually come up with this scene?

(Btw it's never a good idea that women should be writing for what's supposed to be the most masculine guy on the planet. It's probably half the reason he turned out such a metrosexual douche).

Wait, what?!

Quote

It really isn't a big deal. I fail to see how that line caused people to boycott the game, other issues notwithstanding. Like I said, what Duke said was...well sort of true.

It is true, but if it's a joke... well, only an a-hole would make a joke out of this situation. It's like seeing a guy lose his hand and then tell him "Oh, somebody should give you a hand", and not just any regular guy, but a friend, they aren't just any babes for him, they are his babes. It makes the character such an a-hole, I really don't want to play as him.

Quote

Was it unforgivable that you could KILL hookers in 3D? You didn't have to kill them, and you don't have to kill them in this game. All that's added was a conversation. Maybe not a tasteful one in the eyes of the beholder, but it wasn't like he wished death upon them either. TBH I was glad to be rid of them: if anyone has terrible voice acting/lines, it's the Holsom twins. Their presence was more of an insult to injury than all of Duke's attitude in that game. After the initial battle their conversation/voices were embarrassing, to say the least. :3

And who cares? It's Duke. He's never been without controversy of some kind. Even though he was an ultimate badass in 3D, I remember plenty of people having issues with what he said/did/etc in that game, and that was the nineties!

There is a difference. You could kill them, but yeah, you didn't have to and the game actually PUNISHED you for this. It's not about what happens to them, I get it, Duke 3D had it, though it's not the best way to go, it's how Duke reacts to it.

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You can curse here.

Oh, I can? Oh well. I still think it's funnier when bleeped.

[♥Coraline♥]

Revanchist, on 09 January 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

Wait, what?!It is true, but if it's a joke... well, only an a-hole would make a joke out of this situation. It's like seeing a guy lose his hand and then tell him "Oh, somebody should give you a hand". It makes the character such an a-hole, I really don't want to play as him.There is a difference. You could kill them, but yeah, you didn't have to and the game actually PUNISHED you for this. It's not about what happens to them, I get it, Duke 3D had it, though it's not the best way to go, it's how Duke reacts to it.
Oh, I can? Oh well. I still think it's funnier when bleeped.

Well, some people react to sticky situations with humor. I certainly do, so I can see how others would. Some people are just like that, it doesn't mean they are being an asshole.

And how is he being an asshole anyway? They were created specifically to be annoying. I don't think that it's a coincidence that they came off as so lame-brained in the script. Just look at the bigger picture and it'll make more sense. People singled out that scene and completely forgetting the characters previously. I can't blame them with the way the game was designed in general but...really?

[Fox]

Coryyne, on 09 January 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

"Serves them right for cheating"

Hahahahahahaha!

But yeah, that's a really strange scene. As far I remember Duke wanted to kick the aliens ass because they took all the women, not mercifully (if not sexually aroused) watch them suffering horrible deaths.

[Revanchist]

Again, killing off annoying characters is one thing, perfectly acceptable, but rape played for laughs is where I draw the line and the joke was at the expense of rape. That's unacceptable. Though if it was HIS lame attempt at comforting them by humoring up the situation, that's acceptable.

[♥Coraline♥]

Revanchist, on 09 January 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

Again, killing off annoying characters is one thing, perfectly acceptable, but rape played for laughs is where I draw the line and the joke was at the expense of rape. That's unacceptable. Though if it was HIS lame attempt at comforting them by humoring up the situation, that's acceptable.

I didn't register that - rape?? I seriously doubt that's a joke targeted at rape... Listen to the twins brag - they said they'd "get the weight off in a week", was their "first time with an alien"...really?? That sounds consensual to me.

Unfortunately to say I've been in that situation IRL and that's not how you (I, or anyone would) respond, in the slightest, nor do you even self-reference it. That's a touchy subject even for a game developer so I highly doubt that was created to poke fun at rape. The dialogue nor responses indicate anything slightly related to the notion of rape. Unless I hear specifically otherwise, I just say that's a product of over-active imagination.

[Revanchist]

Coryyne, on 09 January 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

I didn't register that - rape?? I seriously doubt that's a joke targeted at rape... Listen to the twins - they said they'd "get the weight off in a week", was their "first time with an alien"...really?? That sounds consensual to me.

Unfortunately to say I've been in that situation IRL and that's not how you (I, or anyone would) respond, in the slightest, nor do you even self-reference it. That's a touchy subject even for a game developer so I highly doubt that was created to poke fun at rape. The dialogue nor responses indicate anything slightly related to the notion of rape. Unless I hear specifically otherwise, I just say that's a product of over-active imagination.

Umm, I think it's a given that what those things do to them (and all other women in hive) is basically rape them. That's what "fucked" line was about. As for consensual - they were brought in and stripped naked. It's forced at best, but more likely outright rape.

I know that that's not how anyone being raped would react and that only makes matters worse. And I don't think it was bragging, it was basically apologizing to him for getting raped. That's... horrifying, really.

[Ronin]

There was no candle lit dinner, they were raped by alien "matter" and the devs tried to make it funny.

[Person of Color]

Grow some balls, Raven.

[Ronin]

Don't worry, it was probably consensual rape.

[Fox]

Murder is okay, but rape is not? But I wouldn't call that rape, or at least not more than a Facehugger from Alien attacking.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Todd Akin would probably say it was a "legitimate rape".

[Revanchist]

Fox, on 09 January 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Murder is okay, but rape is not? But I wouldn't call that rape, or at least not more than a Facehugger from Alien attacking.

Yeah, it is. Ummm, sorry, but when something impregnates you through your vagina without your consent, it's rape. Duke's aliens were always xenomorphs with serial numbers filed off and subtlety removed.

[♥Coraline♥]

Revanchist, on 09 January 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Umm, I think it's a given that what those things do to them (and all other women in hive) is basically rape them. That's what "fucked" line was about. As for consensual - they were brought in and stripped naked. It's forced at best, but more likely outright rape.

I know that that's not how anyone being raped would react and that only makes matters worse.

Sure, all of that is implied. But listen to the twins again. If they wanted to be realistic about it then there wouldn't have been dialogue, period. Do the twins sound like people who've just been through that?

Duke said "fucked" but the twins sure didn't sound like they were raped against their will. Doesn't sound like someone who was forced, either. It was a bad joke, but a joke nonetheless, and I still don't think it's a big deal because there would've been more clarity to the situation. I don't feel there is enough there to justify this as a belittlement to rape.

What about the podded girls in 3D? They were obviously in the Slimer rooms all the same but did we imply that back then too?

This particular issue was only raised because of bad dialogue. The dialogue was misinterpreted and that was it. In an odd twist, I always thought this was a reminiscent result of something in a Ridley Scott movie.

[Ronin]

Fox, on 09 January 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Murder is okay, but rape is not? But I wouldn't call that rape, or at least not more than a Facehugger from Alien attacking.

That's just being raped by an alien, same thing really only one of the party involved are having fun. Nobody knows whether facehuggers are having fun or not, one can only speculate.

[Radar]

LOL. I never knew that was in DNF. This game just keeps sucking the more I know about it.

[Fox]

Revanchist, on 09 January 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

Yeah, it is. Ummm, sorry, but when something impregnates you through your vagina without your consent, it's rape. Duke's aliens were always xenomorphs with serial numbers filed off and subtlety removed.

I will risk to say that an alien incerting his squeedly-spooch in a woman's vagina is not rape, it's something which our language has no word for.

[Person of Color]

Just keep piling it on guys.

God I love this place.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Fox, on 09 January 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

I will risk to say that an alien incerting a squeedly-spooch in a woman's vagina is not rape, it's something which our language has no word for.

Astrality?

[ReaperMan]

Fox, on 09 January 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

I will risk to say that an alien incerting his squeedly-spooch in a woman's vagina is not rape, it's something which our language has no word for.

I think that's called a Yatta.

[OpenMaw]

Fox, on 09 January 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Murder is okay, but rape is not? But I wouldn't call that rape, or at least not more than a Facehugger from Alien attacking.

Which was called inter-species rape by the writers, directors, and producers who worked on Alien. And the writer purposely made the victim of the face hugger a male, so perverted assholes in the crowd who like to see bad shit happen to women all the time would be forced to "cross their legs for a change." And i'm pretty sure this is the exact kind of crap O'bannon was talking about.

And when did anyone say murder was okay? Duke killing the aliens = justified. Considering they're doing all the raping and murdering they like.




See, the big difference here is that, although an obvious parody of the Alien franchise, in Duke3D this element was not played for laughs AT ALL. Just pay attention to the tone in INCUBATOR. It's a level consistent of isolation and horror. The only "comedic" element at work comes from Duke kicking the ass of the aliens, and now more justified because you are finally seeing what the aliens are doing in full. Transforming our world into their world, and using the women to build an army of some kind. It was an effective motivator for the players back in 96. What happened in DNF didn't motivated me. It was just off putting.

The Hive is so tonally side-ways with the rest of the game. If they had been handling the ENTIRE alien invasion with that level of horror (Well, aside from the fucking awful one liners from the babes like "I thought it was okay to swallow" Or whatever they say...) and you excised Duke's "Fucked" line, it would have been a big improvement, honestly, but no. For one level you go on a freak show tour, and then you're back to derpy-mcdouche knozzle starting with "LUL, LOOKS LIKE YER F*CKED! I'm Duke Nukem, and the one thing that pisses me off and motivates me more than anything is when women get hurt, but for this moment I'm just gonna make passe jokes about alien dick monsters raping women! LUL! DERP DERP BUBBLE GUM!" Just a little bit of character assassination.

[Daedolon]

Fox, on 09 January 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

I will risk to say that an alien incerting his squeedly-spooch in a woman's vagina is not rape, it's something which our language has no word for.

Insemination?

DNF is full of shitty jokes and Duke3D is full of alien insemination so this whole discussion is moot.