[----]

Start ROTT, there you see it says Unreal Eninge not UDK. Interceptor also announced that they have a full license a year ago or so as Kathy pointed out. AFAIK it was obtained together with Apogee and/or 3DR (the other Apogee) for more projects (could be wrong with this one, though).

Next evidence is the upcoming editor which is not allowed to be released with a UDK game. With UDK you have to release the game's full sources and people would have to download the UDK to mod and fiddle with the game (which would have been the way of DN:Reloaded).

[OpenMaw]

randir14, on 06 August 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Saves in the STALKER games are not exactly perfect. A lot of times loading the game will cause the weather to completely change, and put previously non-alerted enemies into combat mode.

I'd take odd quirks in the saves over annoying deaths.

[uh . . . .]

Commando Nukem, on 06 August 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

I'd take odd quirks in the saves over annoying deaths.

Name a single checkpoint that can be/is unfair in this game. What checkpoint doesn't have immediately accessible health and weapons?

[leilei]

WHAT THE TRUCK?

[Micky C]

There are definitely checkpoints that are 2 minutes or so before very difficult, insta death platforming sections.

If you only die once it's not so bad, but often you die many times and the minutes start racking up big time...
There's nothing inherently wrong with the platforming sections themselves so much as the player charaxter's god awful air movement and acceleration. It's ridiculous. Duke 3D had much greater control with its near constant movement speed (?).

[Kathy]

Fox Mulder, on 06 August 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

A friend just said to me; "save states might be very hard to implement on modern games, but STALKER did it, and it was made by a team of russians working on vodka."

Stalker wasn't made by russians...

uh . . . ., on 06 August 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

Name a single checkpoint that can be/is unfair in this game. What checkpoint doesn't have immediately accessible health and weapons?

Who gives a twat about health and weapons? In E2L2 you could lose progress after solving hard puzzle because some annoying guard shot you before you could trigger a checkpoint which was in an open area.
In E2L4 the level is sort of a maze with crossover between puzzles/traps and shooting parts with no checkpoints in between those unless you advance way forward by opening big door which is opened after acquiring several keys and pushed levers.

[OpenMaw]

Let's not forget about secret areas with instant death traps that cause you to have to replay several minutes of the map over again.

[Kathy]

Seriously, there is no way to spin it - checkpoints in this game suck. SUCK SUCK SUCK

[Jeff]

Might wait for manual save before continuing:

[----]

Jeff, on 07 August 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Might wait for manual save before continuing:

Or use the cheats (Don't know if somebody posted them already):

http://www.cheatinfo...hetriad2013.htm

[NUKEMDAVE]

I just finished the whole game and yes, to Hell with those checkpoints! They probably wouldn't be that bad if they were just repositioned in different areas and maybe a few more added, though.

[Malgon]

All this talk of bugs, inconsistent performance, and uneven checkpoints has me turned off a bit. I wasn't going to play it immediately anyway, but now I'm definitely going to wait until a lot of these issues are sorted out.

[uh . . . .]

Are you guys just bad at the game or just have low patience from retrying something a few times? Generally, you have to redo a whole area or level, or even the whole game when you die/get a game over in older games, where the only checkpoints were the start of a new level. I welcome the addition of manual saving, for sure, but I just don't see what's so god-forsaken about redoing a part of the game until you get it right.

[Micky C]

Like I've said the air movement control are attrocious and make the platforming sections an absolute nightmare. It's not so much repeating something that's the issue. It's repeating something that's utter crap and poorly designed within the context of the game.

Besides, I'm probably among the younger people on this forum, and I've never really played those old games that forced you to restart an entire level after dying, so your argument is invalid.

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

Mikko C, on 08 August 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

Like I've said the air movement control are attrocious and make the platforming sections an absolute nightmare. It's not so much repeating something that's the issue. It's repeating something that's utter crap and poorly designed within the context of the game.

Besides, I'm probably among the younger people on this forum, and I've never really played those old games that forced you to restart an entire level after dying, so your argument is invalid.

Character speed and bad air control are the two killers that make platforming horrible in ROTT. Your character is simply too fast for the types of jumps the developers expect you to make. Then, when you get into the air, trying to maneuver to land sucks. It's like the developers had no idea that you could very easily overshoot your jumps and didn't adjust the air movement physics for it.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

fuegerstef, on 07 August 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

Or use the cheats

What does it say about a game when you're at the corner of death-trap and miles-away-from-checkpoint, and the best way to move forward is to cheat?

I will say that picture gives me neat memories of the old Nintendo-hard NES platformers.

[OpenMaw]

uh . . . ., on 08 August 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

Are you guys just bad at the game or just have low patience from retrying something a few times? Generally, you have to redo a whole area or level, or even the whole game when you die/get a game over in older games, where the only checkpoints were the start of a new level. I welcome the addition of manual saving, for sure, but I just don't see what's so god-forsaken about redoing a part of the game until you get it right.

It's always the players fault isn't it? Look, I can play any FPS game from the golden era on the toughest difficulty and barely break a sweat. It's actually just a fun and enjoyable experience. That's Duke3d on Damn im Good, Doom on Ultra Violence/Nightmare, Quake on Hard/Nightmare, Quake II on Hard. ROTT would ultimately be no different, except for the saves.

You see, ROTT isn't killing me/us because it's challenging. It's killing me because it's cheap (and in some cases) poorly designed, and even that I could forgive if it didn't set me back in the level after doing a lot of progressing to get to the cheap shit.

[Micky C]

MYHOUSE.MAP, on 08 August 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Character speed and bad air control are the two killers that make platforming horrible in ROTT. Your character is simply too fast for the types of jumps the developers expect you to make. Then, when you get into the air, trying to maneuver to land sucks. It's like the developers had no idea that you could very easily overshoot your jumps and didn't adjust the air movement physics for it.

It's not the fact that you're too fast in the air (ok, well it is), but the main problem is that you start off really slow, and then within half a second or so become really fast. I don't get why that is though, I mean unless you have a jetpack or something, it's not physically possible for that to happen.

[Kathy]

uh . . . ., on 08 August 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

Are you guys just bad at the game or just have low patience from retrying something a few times?

I have low patience for that because game expects me to still collect coins and find the same secrets. It's not A to B like Mega Man. And it's not as precise as hell either. Clunky controls, instant death traps, hitscan enemies, idiotic rocket launcher damage and on top of that checkpoints too far off make this game not hard, but just cheap. You're not dying because you suck, you're dying because game does. And after that it expects you to use various paths, find secrets and collect coins.

Losing progress after 10 minutes while looking for secrets and generally walking through a lever in case you've missed something pisses off completely. It simply is a bad design. At least coins and secret areas should be counted towards percentage or something. The biggest fun about secrets is the process of finding them and you want game to aknowledge that you did. By reseting that progress your motivation to find secret again turns either into a routine job of triggering your findings or simply skipping them.

I wouldn't mind if the game at least had some save crystals like many games do.

[Person of Color]

Kathy, on 08 August 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

I wouldn't mind if the game at least had some save crystals like many games do.

Like a certain game that tried to make you it's bitch?

[NightFright]

Viper The Rapper, on 08 August 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Like a certain game that tried to make you it's bitch?

And that game added manual saves with a patch later...

[Kathy]

Viper The Rapper, on 08 August 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Like a certain game that tried to make you it's bitch?

I was talking about Legend Of Grimrock or Final Fantasy. Never played that particular game you're talking about.

P.S. And it's "its", not "it's".

[Jeff]

Quote

Like I've said the air movement control are attrocious and make the platforming sections an absolute nightmare. It's not so much repeating something that's the issue. It's repeating something that's utter crap and poorly designed within the context of the game.

I thought it was just my hand-eye coordination. I got past the bouncy thing after the 20th try, but I'm kind of stuck in the pit of fire. Keep falling off those platform things. I actually got to the top once (where the gold key is), but I fell off the ledge and onto the floor again.

Quote

I will say that picture gives me neat memories of the old Nintendo-hard NES platformers

Where's one of these when you need one?

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Viper The Rapper, on 08 August 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

Like a certain game that tried to make you it's bitch?

Say what you will, Tomb Raider 3 was mad difficult even with the manual saves.

[OpenMaw]

Comrade Major, on 08 August 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Say what you will, Tomb Raider 3 was mad difficult even with the manual saves.

Sarcasm? Because they're totally talking about John Romero's Lovechild.

[MusicallyInspired]

Ghosts and Goblins anyone?

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Commando Nukem, on 08 August 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Sarcasm? Because they're totally talking about John Romero's Lovechild.

I'm sorry, I didn't get the subtext THAT TOTALLY WASN'T THERE.

[OpenMaw]

Comrade Major, on 08 August 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

I'm sorry, I didn't get the subtext THAT TOTALLY WASN'T THERE.

Do I have to take you out back? Again?

[Bloodshot]

AvP 1999 had no saving, but that was a horror game so it kinda made sense.

They added limited amounts of saves later though.

[MusicallyInspired]

There's also not really any platforming in AVP99. Or Dark Forces.