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Converting 3D assets into proper 8 bit sprites?

User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#1

This is an ancient concept, been around as long as Duke3D. What is the best way to take a 3D model and convert it into a sprite capable of going into Duke3D and not looking absolutely terrible? I know some of the work there is a matter of cleaning things up manually, obviously, but from the outset. I've heard some people say you should start with a very high res piece of art, and then drop the resolution and color palette down. I've heard others suggest starting at the lower pixel resolution and working from there. Of course i'm talking having a model in a 3D program like 3DSMAX, Milkshape, Blender etc.

If anyone has any tips, or links to tutorials on this sort of thing i'd be grateful. I've been looking and frankly not finding anything that really answers this question in a comprehensions fashion.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#2

It depends on what kind of result you are looking for. Are you specifically trying to mimick Duke 3D sprites? I did some tests now with one of the original and it seems that a smooth scaling (with aspect ratio correction) and normal palette conversion provides a close match.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#3

I'm not an expert on the converting for 8 bit, but you should start off with a nicely textured model. It can be what is called a 'production model' which is in the 30-100k poly bracket. Remember, you are using the render, not the model. What everyone forgets is that you can use funky stuff like bump mapping, SSS and other non-real-time methods to get a nice render. So you can use global illumination, nice shaders and strong, dynamic lighting to get a really nice result. Also, you can use coloured lights to easily get 'firing' effects of the critter shooting

Ignore what certain members of the forum will tell you - both Doom and Duke3D used models as the basis for their sprites. It is the easiest, fastest way of doing this and gives the best results.

As for converting to 8-bit, you can ask one of the sprite artists on the forum. You can get Doom and Duke palettes for PS and GIMP which should help in breaking the image down to the right bit-depth. After that, I imagine it will need a bit of surgery here and there to fix palette issues and background isolation.
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User is offline   Radar 

  • King of SOVL

#4

I'd say your armor shard tiles for WGRealms were some of the more impressive model to 8-bit conversions, Tea Monster.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#5

Thank you ;)
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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

  • Glory To Motherland!

#6

View PostTea Monster, on 23 May 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

Ignore what certain members of the forum will tell you - both Doom and Duke3D used models as the basis for their sprites. It is the easiest, fastest way of doing this and gives the best results.


This. Yes, it's possible to create original pixel art by hand, as this was done for two-dimensional games like Street Fighter, Duke Nukem, or Mega Man. But creating walking frames for 5 different (8 if you want to avoid mirror imaging) directions gets old real fast. I've tried it. It's not worth the hassle.
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User is offline   Minigunner 

#7

What I know of so far:
  • Most of the Duke Nukem 3D sprites were rendered at a pretty low FOV, which brings one reason why the HUD weapon sprites appear much shorter than their pickups.
  • Not too much texture/model detail, and somewhat wider gaps and noticable edges. At a low resolution, such details can become a blur and/or a pixellated mess.
  • More than one lighting source. Specifically, some background and accent lighting to go with the main light.
  • For the love of all things holy, make the texture palette-friendly. This does not mean using only the colors in the target palette, but using the general color ranges is a must.

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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#8

The HUD weapons have not been created from 3D models. Wait, the RPG was.

This post has been edited by Fox: 23 May 2013 - 02:23 PM

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User is offline   Cage 

#9

View PostTea Monster, on 23 May 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

I'm not an expert on the converting for 8 bit, but you should start off with a nicely textured model. It can be what is called a 'production model' which is in the 30-100k poly bracket. Remember, you are using the render, not the model. What everyone forgets is that you can use funky stuff like bump mapping, SSS and other non-real-time methods to get a nice render. So you can use global illumination, nice shaders and strong, dynamic lighting to get a really nice result. Also, you can use coloured lights to easily get 'firing' effects of the critter shooting

Ignore what certain members of the forum will tell you - both Doom and Duke3D used models as the basis for their sprites. It is the easiest, fastest way of doing this and gives the best results.


Bulls eye.

Aside from rendering, there's always the clunkyness wich occurs when you use 3d models for in game use, which are "reduced" for performance reasons and you reduce them further into sprites. I guess things are a bit different now, since character models have normal maps and +8k polys (Which you could tessellate without artifacts even further if you'd like)

Duke used 3d models while Doom and Blood used real models which were photographed in. While I think the results depend on skills, painting an animated character from scratch is a terrible slog of work - I'd rather not repeat the experience, however I'm pretty satisfied with results.

View PostFox, on 23 May 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

The HUD weapons have not been created from 3D models. Wait, the RPG was.


I'm quite sure they all were ;)

View PostMinigunner, on 23 May 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

  • For the love of all things holy, make the texture palette-friendly. This does not mean using only the colors in the target palette, but using the general color ranges is a must.



Can't agree more, however it's a bit different when you're the developer - since you create both the art assets and palette yourself. You can plan ahead and craft the palette so it will work with the stuff you want. Just a little inclusion :P

Well made and rendered model still might give more or less of the "3d vibe" - you might want that or not. As 2d guy first, my idea is to blur the line - do a simpler render and just jump in and paint. All WGR2 weapons were made from pretty crude models and simple renders, the magic happened in Photoshop afterward :P But this is just my way of tackling this.

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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#10

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User is offline   Cage 

#11

Whoop, you've got me there, totally forgot about that one! I was pretty sure everything is prerendered models (except the foot and hands)
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#12

Thanks everyone for all the tips. I think i'll post a few examples as i'm going forward to see what kind of progress I can achieve. It's not the first time I've done this sort of thing, but I've never been particularly happy with my results.

For future episodes of Duke The Series it would be nice, for example, to actually have more animation for the Duke sprite so that he can do more and be seen in different states. Lounging around in his apartment without his gear, for example, or showing up in scuba gear. Things like that. It's those elements that really inspired this thead.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Let's go Brandon!

#13

View PostFox, on 23 May 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

INSERT SHOTGUN FRAMES HERE


Note that none of these frames made it into the game. I believe this is actually the first version of the shotgun that some people who played early versions of the game referred to as a black banana.

My two cents, you only use 3D assets as a base. Once you're done with them, they're going to be drawn over and sexified.
Check out these posts by Geoffrey to see what I mean. [1] [2]

I love Geoffrey's work.

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 23 May 2013 - 07:06 PM

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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#14

Yeah, you're right, Duke3D used scans of photos for some things like the hands.

@ Cage and Jimmy - Agreed that It takes a real artist to take a scan/photo/model and make it look good at 64 pixels a side
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User is offline   Kyanos 

#15

I find I get better results when my model skin is already 8 bit, indexed. And in the proper palette. It just makes sense to me to start as close to the end result as possible. Now I read that you want to make more sprites of Duke. In that case you'd probably be best starting higher res and using lights and other renderer effects, then carefully step down to a sprite in ps or gimp. It's a hard balance because of the limited palette, lights will just end up giving you a different coloured pixel. In the range of Dukes skin color you are rather limited and lighting effects may not size down nice. Now that said you can set the model up in ways that this object or that can have different spec factors or reflectivity. A game model is not set up this way. I would take the game model and divy up all it's parts as seperate objects. Then you have more control over them. Good luck!
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