[Jimmy]

Implying this:



is somehow more complex than this:

[----]

Jimmy, on 11 June 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Implying this:



is somehow more complex than this:

If you look at it from music theory, how tones and tunes evolved the first video is really more evovled and not as close to classic rules. The song itself is of course not more complex from our point of view. But it wouldn't have worked in the 50s. Our habit of listeing to music and what we are used to is of no concern.The people had a totally different way of listening to music. They wouldn't have liked a lot of harmonies or rhythmic stuff that seems totally normal to us and where we barely see a difference.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that music is more complex nowadays, It is just further away from "classic" rules. You can see this also over the course of centuries when music started and only consisted of 5 tones per "what we call ocatve" now. The same goes for rhythm. The breaks and offbeats we have nowadays wouldn't have worked in the age of elvis for example.

[ReaperMan]

I will build a time machine and test that theory.

[Jimmy]

Implying that song works in the 2000's. It's absolute garbage.

[----]

ReaperMan, on 11 June 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

I will build a time machine and test that theory.

If you search for "development of musical taste or preference" you find a lot of articles about how children develop musical tastes and how they like different kinds of music and at which age they are able to differ between minor and major tones, etc. You will also find how a their personal contact with music will develop their taste and preferences.

Now imagine a world where there is no Black Sabbath, no Maiden, no Jusitin Bieber. It all does not exist. You only have the music from the 50s (or even a few centuries earlier, if you want a stronger example). Deduct from the facts about how chidlred develop their musical tastes to a society that needs to develop this. But on a broader scale, where people try out new styles, new harmonies, new rhythms. By trying out I mean to put them into actual music that is meant to be listened to by the masses. All those styles were there in theory already. They just weren't used, because it couldn't have worked that fast. They way how these new styles got into popular music is slow and step by step: The well know with slight variations, which makes us feel comfortable.

[Kathy]

Okay, this is getting confusing. About what music exactly are your talking, mainstream music or what? Because even if someone feel confused about the new music she listened it's a normal process to figure it out and become more familiar. What exactly are you trying to say here? Because it turns out into "old music vs new music". And how that ties into games.

I hate when analogies turn into completely different discussions.

[----]

I am talking about what is popular with the people. That doesn't only include the top 40, or so but alos popular metal, indie, jazz. Stuff that attracts a lot of people.

Then I am not talking about particular or single songs but the harmonies and rhythm styles used in the music of each time period.

[Radar]

Ok fugerstef, you need to quit this. That first song Jimmy posted wouldn't have worked in the 50's because it's retarded, not because the decade couldn't handle "advanced theories". You are forgetting that this was the decade of the second jazz revolution, when Leonard Bernstein reigned over classical music, when Elvis was king, and that these people were about to accept Beatlemania into their hearts three years after the decade. Beethoven was basically the most complex composer who ever lived, and he was around 150 years before 1950. I hate it when these guys who only listen to metal try to pretend they understand music history.

EDIT:
Now that I'm finally at a desktop, I can write everything I initially wanted to.

fuegerstef, on 11 June 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

If you look at it from music theory, how tones and tunes evolved the first video is really more evovled and not as close to classic rules.

No. Not at all. That Paramore song has a chord progression made entirely up of your standard first, fourth, and fifth interval major chords, with a few minor equivalents for good measure. Before Elvis even started singing, the big band was already blasting added-sevenths. I'll give you a point though. The Paramore video is farther away from "classic rules", in that it sucks terribly.

fuegerstef, on 11 June 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

You can see this also over the course of centuries when music started and only consisted of 5 tones per "what we call ocatve" now.

It's called a pentatonic scale. I hope you aren't insinuating music theory was that primordial in 1950. By the time Bach was around, everything we know about music theory today was established. There really isn't any new theory anyone has developed in that past 300 years, only new ways of interpreting it all. (After all, the blanket rule of music is that there are no rules. )

fuegerstef, on 11 June 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

The same goes for rhythm. The breaks and offbeats we have nowadays wouldn't have worked in the age of elvis for example.

What? "Breaks" and "offbeats"? You should consider looking up a guy named Louis Armstrong. Maybe Duke Ellington too.

[----]

The problem I have trying to explain is that the theory was there and it was played by some, as I already said earlier (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!) <- highlighting this for you, Radar, as you seemed to have missed. But, you didn't get metal, or hardrock, etc from one day to the other out of nothing. Things slowly (!!!!!!!!) evolved from then to now.

[Radar]

Let me guess, you listen to metal and hard rock for the most part?

[LAW]

Mikko_Sandt, on 11 June 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Gonna be gone for a few days so you nigs can catch a breath.

Hmmm, yeah you are the star of this thread. Your answers are top notch, you are perfect. By derailing this thread at the begining I created you

[Jimmy]

50's Jamaica had slamming good music.

Jimmy don't dance. This makes Jimmy skank in his living room.

[Radar]

You really manage to post some great music CA.

[Jimmy]

Thanks. In my opinion life is too short to be listening to junk top 40 plebeian music. Go out there and find some ska or punk rock or garage rock record no one cares about at the thrift store and take a 75 cent chance. You'll have a good time even if it sucks.

[LAW]

BTW Mikko, if you think the old console FPS games are bad, then watch "Top ten Amiga FPS games" on YT. Now, talk about bad. Only a few games like Genetic Species, Trapped 2 and maybe Gloom Deluxe are ok, but Disruptor or even Alien Trilogy are just unbelievable masterpecies, when compared to the most of Amiga Doom clones.

[Tea Monster]

What do you call it when the train goes off the tracks, rolls down a steep hill and then manages to roll onto another track heading for a different city? Cross-re-railment?

Prince Buster kicked ass.

[Jimmy]

I knew we could agree on something, my good man.

[pjVgt]

LAW, on 25 June 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

BTW Mikko, if you think the old console FPS games are bad, then watch "Top ten Amiga FPS games" on YT. Now, talk about bad. Only a few games like Genetic Species, Trapped 2 and maybe Gloom Deluxe are ok, but Disruptor or even Alien Trilogy are just unbelievable masterpecies, when compared to the most of Amiga Doom clones.

No. For most of those games were made in 1995/1996 on a hardware that was just barely on the PC AT level. And when You take just the average quality of doomclones available on PC at this time (anyone remembers Pursuit of Greed?) they aren't half bad. It took some considerable work and programming genius to make even simplest texture mapping on height defined maps on a hardware that was never meant to do this. Sadly those people just wasted their time working on a doomed platform - some guys (like Arrakis Software working on Cytadela game from this YT video) were screwed up by the publisher who got his ass covered by his mum (what a dick!).

[PokeThePower]

Wieder, on 30 May 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

This isn't entirely true. It's actually about looking at the typical play loop even of skilled players and looking at time that is considered frustrating or boring and turns off many otherwise happy players and trimming those parts.

One of the highest on that list is by far: Finding yourself in a situation without enough health and no good save game state to go back to. It's actually a benefit for both the designer and the player in many games. The designer so they don't have to worry about creating obscure but still possible no-win situations, and for the player so they don't have to worry about making a critical poor choice or obsess over save crawling.

The intent (not always succeeded on) is to free up that time for the player to encounter more interesting choices/challenges instead.

NECRO RARWLRLRLRLRL!!!!

I want to document for the record what this line of thinking results in. There is no right or wrong... it's simply a matter of who you are aiming for in your customer.

The person that is left out of the scenario described above is the person who finds themselves in a position which everyone, even themselves and the designer, consider their situation hopeless. They then proceed to work and discover a way out of it, thus amazing both themselves and everyone who understands what just happened. This is a genuine sense of "glory" which the modern approach to "you got in a bad spot but we've got you covered" mindset eradicates.

By creating a safety net to prevent "normal players" from failure, we remove the capacity for anyone to be amazing. Genuinely... deeply... amazing.

[Richard Shead]

Wieder once again proves to be one of, if not the most intellectual and business-savvy employees ever to have graced 3DR with his presence- in addition to being a damn good community member who clearly hasn't forgotten his fan-based roots.

[PokeThePower]

Duke Rocks, on 06 May 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

Wieder once again proves to be one of, if not the most intellectual and business-savvy employees ever to have graced 3DR with his presence

I know this isn't true for a variety of reasons but will keep repressed because it would involve opening up a rant that will cause Yatta and Lunick to roll their eyes.

Duke Rocks, on 06 May 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

- in addition to being a damn good community member who clearly hasn't forgotten his fan-based roots.

However this... I will totally /salute and agree with and continue to cultivate the mental garden of remembering what it's like to give a damn.

[Yatta]

I'd never roll my eyes at you.

[PokeThePower]

Yatta, on 15 May 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

I'd never roll my eyes at you.

Some of your eye rolls have been invaluable in keeping my head on straight.

This is a copy/paste of an email I sent to a few select people at work today:

Quote

Unrelated... but...

So I lost my Kindle and purchased a new one. I was reading a review of one to help myself feel better about my decision and came across this...

"...it feels nice beneath the fingers and offers some friction to help ensure you won't accidentally lose your grip during a particularly saucy "Fifty Shades of Grey" passage (not that we'd know). "

And I thought "Are they talking about masturbating while reading?"

And then I thought "Yes... I think they are."

And then I thought "How many products have given hints toward their masturbatory quality that I've been oblivious to?"

And then I thought "All of them... if I really think about it deeply enough."

/salute

[Jblade]

Reading that just makes me cringe because most of my older female co-workers have read that book and it just puts horrible mental images into my head (to be fair most of the younger ones have as well...why they can't read something actually good though I don't know )

[PokeThePower]

James, on 15 May 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Reading that just makes me cringe because most of my older female co-workers have read that book and it just puts horrible mental images into my head (to be fair most of the younger ones have as well...why they can't read something actually good though I don't know )

I... I might suggest that there is a lesson worth learning buried in there.

Now *that* said... there might also be a lesson worth learning buried under the lesson... which you might have already learned without understanding why you already understand it.

How messed up is *that* to realize the universe is there to teach you what you already know?

[Lunick]

Wieder, on 15 May 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

rant that will cause Yatta and Lunick to roll their eyes.

Nah, I'm kidding

[Micky C]

James, on 15 May 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Reading that just makes me cringe because most of my older female co-workers have read that book and it just puts horrible mental images into my head (to be fair most of the younger ones have as well...why they can't read something actually good though I don't know )

Just be grateful that you didn't see a family member reading it

[PokeThePower]

Mickey C, on 16 May 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

Just be grateful that you didn't see a family member reading it

The bloom is merely the idealism of the stem.

[dinwitty]

Joshua Don, on 30 April 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Hey! this is my first post here, but I figured it should be brought to everybody's attention since the Duketarded community has disbanded ever since DNF I feel.

This is from a one-time poster over at Gearbox Software under the alias Johnqpublic.

The link to the post is..,http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=274852

I must admit, this helped provide me with some closure.


Hi everyone ---big snip-

George Broussard...don't worry about the money invested, they were going for the jugular here on this game, they switched engines, went thru all kinds of reworks, the game going thru a lot of re-creations. When you go to work on any game you need to have the mood for it to create/work on it. George may catch on and and note some deviating spirit for the game and why this fellow was released.
George was looking for some little help for a completion of the game and got problems back, so more or less sold it off to Gearbox to finish the game.

I made a little suggestion on the 3Drealms forums while all these problems were happening 3d Realms "closed their doors", I mentioned...
"hey, try to keep working on the game....somehow..." I tend to think they took my suggestion, many of the gang took the work home and kept going apparently the creation of Tryptich to continue the game occurred. The rest is history.

They were determined to get this game out. And it took any ways means to do it.

Game making isn't always easy, it takes a lot of perseverance. Early games were like 1-2 people working on them or a small team. you do what you can.

you can't kill duke, despite how you feel about the game.

overNout

thanx Admins for letting me in, I'll poke around..

[Robman]

Wieder, on 20 May 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

The bloom is merely the idealism of the stem.

Then they are surely proud of their Chucky