[Sangman]

TerminX, on 02 May 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

For the ones working at bigger companies, they go to conferences and trade shows and whatnot.

Cathy, on 02 May 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Then shouldn't programmers also go to these conferences? Sang, how often is 'often'?

No some guys I know work for sys/network admin companies that handle networks for other clients. Some of those clients are abroad and occassionally they require tech people on-site.

That said I have been working at a client of the company I work at in The Netherlands in recent months but it's not exactly the same as going to the UK or whatever

[PokeThePower]

Yeah... it was a pretty post.

[Lunick]

Wieder, on 07 May 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

But an interesting person travelling... well... I can't lie...

Not this again Wieder

[blackharted3]

D'you know, I'm now glad I've been avoiding this thread

[xPreatorianx]

LkMax, on 01 May 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

No, we definitely didn't, what we've got was a boring linear game with stupid jokes and a boring linear mod full of references of old trailers that is way overrated just because it was made by fans.
PS: I will may (or may not) do a quick review to explain what I mean later. I know I'm in the minority here.

Well I enjoyed it. I played it from start to finish in one sitting. Mind you I didn't keep up with the DNF trailers as they were released after Duke3D. So maybe that's why.

As for this "story" in all honesty I believe it's true. The game took what 12+ years to come to market and even though I personally liked it, it was nowhere near what I expected. Did I enjoy the experience? Yes. Did I enjoy it as much as the 12+ years of hype? OH HELL NO! Decent game for a modern Duke Nukem but all the "management decisions" really screwed up it's true potential.

Fox, on 01 May 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

The more I hear about it, more frightening the gaming industry sounds.


To be fair, I think the "old guys" have been underpaid, and there is nothing wrong in asking for reasonable gains.

I still want to get into the game industry as I've always known that the hours would be long and during crunch time you will most likely live at the office instead of going home. Several people have come out and described the gaming industry and the hell it can bring especially during crunch time. But I would still enjoy it as long as I have a supportive team and management. That's the key to turning the "hell" of the industry into a paradise.

I'm not saying all companies do this but like I said I've heard from some employees about "hell weeks" and crunch time. But as I said as long as I enjoyed the work and had a good support team with me, I wouldn't mind. Hell I'm an insomniac anyways so it wouldn't bother me at all. .

[LAW]

This is one of the most delayed games ever. The guys at 3DR made a huge mistake, they should release what they had in 2001.

I don't believe they made regen health because of time/console constrains. They did cause it's popular among the current dumb Pokemon players. I can't stand the fact that rising imbecility of societies is making the whole gaming industry worse. Call me the 90s kid, but everything is worse today. I haven't buy current-gen console yet - I still stick to my favourite PS2/Xbox1/N64 combo.

If the quoted post is real, they guy must have been a dreamer. The job at gaming industry is not a romantic adventure and it haven't been since at least Final Fantasy 8 (over 200 people have worked on it). That's why I have never been seriously trying to join any local gaming company - I knew it would drain all the fun from playing. The fun which is essential for my good mood It's a normal job, where you do what someone tells you to do. You don't like it, you quit. Something is wrong, go for a lawsuit.

[xPreatorianx]

LAW, on 14 May 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

This is one of the most delayed games ever. The guys at 3DR made a huge mistake, they should release what they had in 2001.

I don't believe they made regen health because of time/console constrains. They did cause it's popular among the current dumb Pokemon players. I can't stand the fact that rising imbecility of societies is making the whole gaming industry worse. Call me the 90s kid, but everything is worse today. I haven't buy current-gen console yet - I still stick to my favourite PS2/Xbox1/N64 combo.

If the quoted post is real, they guy must have been a dreamer. The job at gaming industry is not a romantic adventure and it haven't been since at least Final Fantasy 8 (over 200 people have worked on it). That's why I have never been seriously trying to join any local gaming company - I knew it would drain all the fun from playing. The fun which is essential for my good mood It's a normal job, where you do what someone tells you to do. You don't like it, you quit. Something is wrong, go for a lawsuit. Uff, it's good I work 10 hours per week only

Ok?!?!? I have to ask what does the Pokemon community have to do with regenerating health? Unless Black and white 2 decided to break the entire "pokemon standard" and decide to make Pokemon's have the ability to regenerate health overtime in a battle (which wouldn't make sense considering a single attack can kill you in a battle) then that community shouldn't be blamed. Regenerating health has existed for a long time and it was never in any Pokemon game. So the Pokemon community have nothing to do with it. So you really need to explain this comment. As I have never heard or played a game with regenerating pokemon health. Likewise I've never heard a pokemon fan request that feature considering I still play the Pokemon games and I'm still fairly active in the more mature parts of the community. (the fans who are actually 18+)

PS: Yes I like the Pokemon games. They are a decent RPG experience! Deal with it .

EDIT: Ahh I'm guessing you are talking about the regenerator ability? I don't see any problems with that considering there's all kinds of different abilities/mechanics/potions/etc that do similar things from the previous generations. But still regenerating health has existed for quite a long time and is even in fighting games such as MVC2, MVC3, etc. So you should blame the entire industry and not one community. Plus that ability and similar mechanics like it in the Pokemon franchise don't even compare to the standard regenerating health mechanic that is "standard" in most FPS. Plus that ability actually serves a functional purpose and is not designed to make the game easier like the regenerating mechanic for FPS games. In fact most of the mechanics of a Pokemon game aren't designed to make the game easier. They are put in for functional purposes to actually make the battle more enjoyable, last longer (which again makes it more enjoyable) or for tournaments.

[LAW]

xPreatorianx,

By writing this you actually have a good chance of becoming a Pokemon in the near future. Well, the word Pokemon describes a generation of dumb youngsters from the Pokemon era. They are so common as a result of rising imbecility in mass media and popular culture. This is not a globally known sociological term, but it is very popular in Poland.

I just see the facts: nowadays simplified games (with regen health for example) are made for idiots and by idiots. It's a sad truth, which also applies to the movies. Directors make only CGI crap or shitty remakes. No new freakin' ideas.

[PokeThePower]

LAW, on 15 May 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

...are made for idiots and by idiots. It's a sad truth...

LAW speaks the truth more than I know how to express. It's suffocating.

I've been in a meeting with a lead designer for a "major franchise" (aka big marketing budget) where the design decisions were primarily influenced by the perspective of "You have no idea how dumb our customers are". Which I can confirm revealed more about the designer than the "customers"... aka human PLAYERS not CREDIT CARDS you FUCKS!

Doh... I used my outside voice for that one. *blush*

[Jimmy]

To paraphrase Jello Biafra, "Tin-eared graph-paper brained accountants instead of [gamers] call all the shots at giant [developers] now. The lowest common denominator rules. Forget honesty. Forget creativity. The dumbest buy the mostest; That's the name of the game. But sales are slumping, and no one will say why. Could if be they put out one too many lousy [games]?"

[Minigunner]

LAW, on 15 May 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

I just see the facts: nowadays simplified games (with regen health for example) are made for idiots and by idiots.

You mean kids. A good portion of those who play blockbuster M-rated games are clearly outside of the targeted age range, and that completely contradicts the purpose of that rating. It's not like it was intended or anything.

[LAW]

I guess we feel happy as we consider ourselves a better, old-school gamers. But so called Pokemons could describe us as conservative fossils. To be honest, this entire forum is one, giant dinosaur preserve

When I was younger I haven't been respecting history, nor tradition. "Here & now" were my target of interest. You start to respect history and tradition, when the things you love get older along with you (In case you like this golden thought, it is mine )

Enough with this sad stuff. I am just a bit pissed off that some things are not as good they used to be.

[Mikko]

And how many modern games have you played?

[Gambini]

Generally, I over-read this kind of discussions because my inputs are usually second hand information and not so well measured in words. There is most times somebody that has a standpoint similar to mine and I just go and upvote him.

As said, I don´t externalize my feelings about this too often: But it´s so fucked up and sad how games are getting dumber and dumber every day. It´s like most developers are repeating a stupid formula that they think it´s the best: Use the lowest denominator, make games so your 90 years old grandma can play and finish. Doesn´t matter how shitty your exectuion is so long as its sales are good.

Where the romance on doing games went?

Quote

But so called Pokemons could describe us as conservative fossils

But only because they don´t know what they´re missing. Ok, some old games were certainly not really intuitive and only a small portion of hardcore gamers would manage to finish them. But we reached the pinnacle in 1998 with Half Life. Nowaday games are just too stupidly obvious and un-challenging. I know there are still a few genres that preserve their charm. But the most popular genres are just degenerated into ultrasimplificed-consolized shit. Just look at FPSs and Racing games.

Quote

And how many modern games have you played?

You only need to play one modern shooters and it´s like you played them all.

[LAW]

Mikko_Sandt, on 15 May 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

And how many modern games have you played?

But what does the modern mean? For me, modern game has been made after 2006 year (death of Xbox 1, release of X360, PS2 on the back foot). No wonder, the majority of titles I finished or heavily tried are from the consoles:

Fear 1 (PC&X360) - It's an good game, but still I prefer to be spooked by RE or Silent Hill.
Rainbow Six Vegas (PS3) - Good, but it's mostly impressive visuals.
Need For Speed Pro Street (PS2&PS3) - Bleh, another NFS.
Mortal Kombat Armageddon (PS2) - I like it because it's like MK Trilogy 2, but it's not the same as the awesome MK2.
Medal Of Honor Airborne (PS3) - Average/good and I got tired of WW2 games.
Turok (PS3)- Average/good, not the old Turok.
Gran Turismo 5 (PS3) - Waste of money, a few more cars than in GT4, 200 "special" good loking cars, the rest are only a bit improved over PS2.
GTA IV (PS3) - Good, but I still prefer GTA San Andreas.
Singstar (PS3) - Good only on parties, I can't call it a real game.
Soul Calibur IV (PS3) - No, no, no, I like Star Wars, but please...
Ferrari Trofeo Pirelli (PS2) - Good racing sim, nothing special.
Star Wars The Force Unleashed (PS2) - Awesome!
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 (PS2) - Still good, but for the first time it is too hard for me (on five stars).
Dead Space (PS3) - Mixed bag.
Far Cry 2 (PS3) - Good visuals, a LOT of travelling, regenerating camps (!?), prequel is way better.
Quantum Of Solace (PS2&PS3) - Different on both platforms, but ok game either way.
Mirror's Edge (PS3) - Awesome!
Mortal Kombat vs DC (PS3) - Good, but the crossover idea is a joke.
Need For Speed Undercover (PS3) - Nooooooo.
Fear 2 (PS3) - The small girl's tricks got old quickly.
Resident Evil 5 (PS3) - Good, but it is worse than 4, and miles away from the excellent PS1 trilogy.
Fight Night Round 4 (PS3) - Great mechanics, but it has so few real boxers (more DLC = more money)
Wipeout HD Fury (PS3) - Good, but not as good as Wipeout 2.
Wolfenstein (PS3) - Good, but these supernatural thigs are getting weirder and more stupid.
Batman Arkham Asylum (PS3) - Awesome!
Need For Speed Shift (PS3) - A bit better, but still.
Tekken 6 - It is still Tekken, but I don't like the story and this lame Force mode rip-off (Minigun in Tekken)
Call Of Duty Modern Warfare 1 & 2 (PS3) - Sorry it's a series for low IQ players.
Bayonetta (PS3) - Very good, sort of DMC follower.
Aliens Vs Predator (PS3) - Good visuals, but it's a shitty game.
God Of War (PS3) - It is good, but the overhelming and overdrawn butality feels very stupid.
Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2 (PS3) - A clone of Galen Marek? Thanks, I am out.
Dead Nation (PS3) - Stupid as hell.
Killzone 3 (PS3) - Very stupid, I didn't like the entire series to be honest.
Fight Night Champion (PS3) - Good, but again DLC, DLC, more money.
Crysis 2 (PS3&PC) - Sorry, I just don't like this game (I like the prequel).
Rage (PS3) - Good, I like the Mad Max feel mostly.
Duke Nukem Forever (PS3) - The plus - it has the blackboard.
Fear 3 (PS3) - The old tricks got even older.
Crysis 1 (PS3) - Loved it, but it is different from the PC version.
Goldeneye 007 Remake - Good, but miles away from the N64 version.
Twisted Metal (PS3) - Good, but miles away from the Twisted Metal 2.
Max Payne 3 (PS3) - Very, very good.
Diablo 3 (PC) - Stupid at times, too easy, not the same.
Tekken Tag 2 (PS3) - Awesome!
Pro Evolution Soccer 2013 (PS2) - The last game on the PS2, but it is damn good.
Resident Evil 6 (PS3) - Noooooo.
Doom 3 BFG (PS3) - It's just Doom 3 finally on the PS, with bad controls.
Crysis 3 (PS3) - Stupid.

Uff, what a list. The bolded titles are the must-haves for me. There were a bunch of good games. The problem is they were too few, not as good as THEN, too short, too stupid or moved a lot of its features into the DLC. But from the 2010 the situation is even worse. A few new ideas and a lot of remakes (HD editions).

My sister has a PS3, so I could try these titles by renting them. She mostly plays Singstars and PS Move games. I am not a big fan of "waving" a microphone shaped controller in front of the TV, however it is fun on parties.

[Mikko]

Well I don't know what you're trying to prove with a list of console games. It's not like the mid-late '90s were golden in terms of console games. If anything console games are better today. (As you know, I didn't care about console games at all in late '90s while you considered them superior to PC games.) Games like Halo & MW may not be so good on the PC but on consoles they sure as hell work better than those awful '90s console ports of PC shooters.

[Jimmy]

Dude what? There were all kinds of great console games in the 90's. You had everything from Zombies Ate My Neighbors! to Sonic & Knuckles to Earthbound to Castlevania: Bloodlines to MegaMan X to Contra: Hard Corps.

Unless you're specifically talking about console FPSes, you're full of it.

[Person of Color]

Oh please. Everyone knows that the Sega Genesis and the Super Nintendo are pretty much the Rock 'N Sock Connection of retro consoles.

Mikko, is it really your mission if life to be that guy? Why does every opinion you hold have to be different than everyone around you? No one likes that guy.

I would love to hear about how console games are better today. Really. Look, I'm even using italics right now so I sound pompous like you. Sega's first party studios are gone. Nintendo straight up sucks now. Other great studios like Shiny Entertainment, Ocean, Lobotomy, and Treasure either don't exist or barely make anything of value.

[Mikko]

486DX2, on 16 May 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Oh please. Everyone knows that the Sega Genesis and the Super Nintendo are pretty much the Rock 'N Sock Connection of retro consoles.

I was talking of "mid-late '90s", i.e., the PSX/N64 era. The console shooters of that era were either crappy ports of PC games or just crappy console exclusives.

I grew up with Sega Master System/Genesis, particularly the first four Sonic titles. And while it'd be impossible for me to relive anything resembling that experience with today's games, I would never claim that those games were somehow objectively better than what kids play today. The kids who grow up with modern console games will think just as fondly of those games many years from now as I do of the early '90s Sega games. They're not any more emotionally tied to the early '90s games than I am to Space Invaders or Pac-Man.

Quote

I would love to hear about how console games are better today. Really. Look, I'm even using italics right now so I sound pompous like you. Sega's first party studios are gone. Nintendo straight up sucks now. Other great studios like Shiny Entertainment, Ocean, Lobotomy, and Treasure either don't exist or barely make anything of value.

Games are selling unlike ever before and tons of games are released to critical acclaim all the time. I guess to you it's all just some conspiracy or people not knowing what they like.

[Gambini]

486DX2, on 16 May 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Mikko, is it really your mission if life to be that guy? Why does every opinion you hold have to be different than everyone around you? No one likes that guy.

Sad will be the day when everybody agrees about everything and discussions are only a circle-jerking bunch of words. Mikko always offers a different point of view based on facts. Most times I disagree with him, but it´s always interesting to discuss the divergences. It´s at least more interesting than reading somebody picking on someone else with ad hominen remarks.

[Fox]

Mikko_Sandt, on 16 May 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

selling unlike ever before and (...) critical acclaim

So the new Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a great movie?

[Hank]

Gambini, on 16 May 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Sad will be the day when everybody agrees about everything and discussions are only a circle-jerking bunch of words. Mikko always offers a different point of view based on facts. Most times I disagree with him, but it´s always interesting to discuss the divergences. It´s at least more interesting than reading somebody picking on someone else with ad hominen remarks.

No worries, if anything is for certain, the last two Duke Nukem fans left on this planet will continue to argue, it's the Duke way.
And I agree with the asinine personal attacks, this is sad, but for as long as the moderators let it go ....

[Player Lin]

I just feel like playing FPSes with (those console's)controller just pain in my fingers so hard...still prefer play with keyboard + mouse. (Or even just keyboard if that game just old enough...)

[LAW]

Mikko_Sandt, on 16 May 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

awful '90s console ports of PC shooters.

Shiiiit, what a bull:
Wolfenstein 3D (Jaguar) - everything high-res over PC
Doom (PS1) - better lighting, for some better music
Powerslave/Exhumed (PS1) - light years away from the PC version
Duke Nukem 64 (N64)
Quake 2 (PS1 & N64)
Quake 1 (N64) - maybe lo-res, but colored, prerendered lights
Dark Forces (PS1) - exactly like low-res PC version, so is that a bad thing?

And I have NEVER ever had any problems with mastering almost any console FPS on the gamepad. I just love pads, so the controls were not an issue.

Quote

just crappy console exclusives.

Don't raise my blood preasure:

Goldeneye 007 (N64) - a gem, not a mindless shooter, released before Half-Life
The World Is Not Enough (N64) - very close to the Goldeneye
Alien Trilogy (PS1) - wasn't crap if it was ported to PC
Disruptor (PS1) - GREAT sci-fi shooter (top ten of my all-the time favs)
Medal Of Honor (PS1) - this great series started on the consoles
Medal Of Honor Underground (PS1)
Duke Nukem Zero Hour (N64) - you can turn the FPS view, I like it even more than the original DN3D!

486DX2, on 16 May 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

I would love to hear about how console games are better today. Really. Look, I'm even using italics right now so I sound pompous like you. Sega's first party studios are gone. Nintendo straight up sucks now. Other great studios like Shiny Entertainment, Ocean, Lobotomy, and Treasure either don't exist or barely make anything of value.

Ditto!

Anyway I wasn't talking about console shooters from the 90s. I just loved Crash Bandicoots, Marios, Yoshis, Gran Turismos, Tekkens, Street Fighters, Virtua Fighters, Mortal Kombats, Soul Caliburs, Shenmue, ISS Pros and many, many arcade style games over PC's strategies, rpgs and average shooters. I didn't find console games superior, I just prefered the genres and styles.

We will never reach a consensus here. It's off-topic by the way.

[Mikko]

Fox, on 16 May 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

So the new Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is a great movie?

It's very much like all the other Indy movies.

LAW said:

Shiiiit, what a bull:

No, console versions of PC games were just that, console versions that settled for lesser graphics, no multiplayer (apart from split-screen), cut content, crappy controls, crappy framerate, etc. There probably were exceptions though (Powerslave, but it was a terrible game to begin with) but the '00s and onward have certainly been much better for console shooters, not exactly a wonder since the games of that era were actually designed for consoles.

Quote

Don't raise my blood preasure:

Oh please. With a few exceptions (007 comes to mind), those games were either mediocre or downright bad. Certainly nothing a PC player would find interesting (see the terrible reception Alien Trilogy got on PC).

[LAW]

Mikko_Sandt, on 17 May 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

Oh please. With a few exceptions (007 comes to mind), those games were either mediocre or downright bad. Certainly nothing a PC player would find interesting (see the terrible reception Alien Trilogy got on PC).

So The World Is Not Enough, Duke Nukem Zero Hour or Disruptor are mediocre or downright bad?

[Forge]

486DX2, on 16 May 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

I would love to hear about how console games are better today.

eye candy.

considering the newest game i own is ghost recon (the first one) I could be speaking out of turn, but from my observations of watching people play and seeing what's on the market - the consoles of today are vastly superior to what was available in the mid-late 90's, but are wasted. One would think the games would be bigger and better, but all that memory and processor power is used up on "epic" cutscenes and graphic eyecandy.

for me, i'm fine with playing an old sega genesis rpg like phantasy star or shining force and come away more satisfied with the experience, than if i grabbed the latest console and played final fantasy XXXVII (or whatever they're up to now - stopped paying attention to them somewhere around V) and watched an hour of hi-def cutscenes while the game plays itself for me. (disclaimer: exaggerated to emphasize a personal point of view)

[blackharted3]

I don't get me, I've never hated cutscenes, but I mostly agree with what Forge said: Console power today is just wasted on irreverent eye candy etc.

Still if anyone hates today's crop of video games, this next generation isn't gonna be any better. You mark my words: There's going to be no significant difference in terms of gameplay. No major leap forward. No new innovation. It's all gonna be very similar to what we have now. I really what's the main hook the next 2 consoles? 6x the power?

Damn you Activision!!!!

Hell look at the designs of the new consoles, the WiiU looks similar, the menu design looks pretty identical to the Wii, what we've seen from the PS4, looks like an updated PS3, and the next Xbox? Oh don't get me started. I mean 6x the power? Clearly is going to be used for graphics, maybe always online? This is a big sign pointing toward more Call of Duty's being pumped out etc.

Sorry for the long off topic rant.

[Mikko]

LAW, on 21 May 2013 - 12:18 AM, said:

So The World Is Not Enough, Duke Nukem Zero Hour or Disruptor are mediocre or downright bad?

From what I can remember, those games received ratings in the 60-80 range. If you think they were somehow more remarkable than, say, the latest CoD or Halo, then you're not being objective. I mean c'mon, Disruptor is almost the definition of unremarkable with its narrow corridors and Doom-like gameplay.

[PokeThePower]

Duel, on 21 May 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

I don't get me, I've never hated cutscenes, but I mostly agree with what Forge said: Console power today is just wasted on irreverent eye candy etc.

That's because that's all the power is actually any good for in most cases.

Almost all "good" designs can be done with very little processing going on. Gameplay is, as far as I've experienced, never truly limited by processing power. Only how you choose to visualize that gameplay.

On that front, there is something good about being able to better visualize the abstract gameplay concepts into tangible and recognizable representations. However when the gameplay begins to be driven by the representation rather than the representation being driven by the gameplay, we run into the situations that I'm guessing you are referring to most.

This may be my bias, but there hasn't been a single 3D "game design" concept I've come across within the past 15+ years that wasn't possible in Duke 3D. It was only a matter of how detailed and reliable you want the visualization and interaction to be. Going from 2D to 3D can have a profound impact. Going from Duke 3D to Unreal... not quite as much. Going from Unreal 1 to Unreal Now... bah.

I've commented before that when games start *replacing* imagination rather than *stimulating*, then they begin the process of losing their magic. It's not a matter of the hardware, but the game/visual design itself and then (old cliche by now) using the hardware as much as needed to maximize the game design.