[Kathy]

Radar, on 28 February 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Oh geez, c'mon. If they wanted to, they could tidy up things around here without even trying. All the mods have to do is lock all the political threads, temporarily ban a few dudes every time there's a little quarrel, IP ban the frequent trolls, censor every swear word, silence all discussion of secret commercial projects, etc. But that would destroy the concept of discussing things. Even if we're just slapping each other around the whole time, are we not allowed to agree to disagree?

That's not what I meant. It's not that mods didn't intervene to get the thread back it on topic. It never was offtopic, but the discussion shifted to a social one. It could go either way, but it became an issue to discuss. Maybe it was foolish given the image to expect anything else, but that's what almost every discussion goes into here when there is a slight chance for that.

I am in no way want mods to lock anything. Besides, it is on topic afterall.

[Striker]

Mikko_Sandt, on 01 March 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Since when have looking hot and be deserving of respect been mutually exclusive?

If some narrow-minded, subhuman asshole cannot respect a woman when he's turned on by the way the woman dresses then that is an arguement for the narrow-minded, subhuman asshole to change his way of thinking, not for the woman to change the way she dresses.

I'm with Mikko here. Why can't a girl both attract sexual attention AND respect?

[Hank]

Mikko_Sandt, on 01 March 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Since when have looking hot and be deserving of respect been mutually exclusive?

If some narrow-minded, subhuman asshole cannot respect a woman when he's turned on by the way the woman dresses then that is an arguement for the narrow-minded, subhuman asshole to change his way of thinking, not for the woman to change the way she dresses.

I did not say they are mutually exclusive. Human behaviour does not fall into absolutes, unlike the political correctness ideology. An old Chinese proverb says: “Respect yourself and others will respect you.”

If you step into the world showing your body, what exactly do you expect to be respected for?
People are attracted or repelled to each other physically and mentally. When you dress up provocatively, you will be admired for your body that you proudly display. Sure, you may strike a conversation and discuss efficacy of ghrelin, or other intriguing topics; or enter a simple, my place or your place, dialogue.

[Mikko]

Hank, on 01 March 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

If you step into the world showing your body, what exactly do you expect to be respected for?

For the exact same reasons as you were prior to "showing your body". In fact, there are instances where individuals should be respected more for taking off their clothes, such as when a woman in a conservative country protests against patriarchal oppression by dressing in a skimpy outfit. Of course, in the eyes of some subhuman "men", wearing a skimpy outfit is a signal that you're "asking for it". Such men are animals and they should be eradicated rather than appeased.

[Forge]

Mikko_Sandt, on 01 March 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

Such men are animals and they should be eradicated rather than appeased.

ah, there's the Mikko I know. was wondering where you gone off to...

so now the conversation has evolved to this point? delightful

which response supersedes the other when viewing women (scantily clad) in society: respect for them as a person -or- desire for them in a physical nature?

why is there a dividing line between the two? can't it be both?

Mikko_Sandt, on 01 March 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Since when have looking hot and be deserving of respect been mutually exclusive?

StrikerMan780, on 01 March 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

Why can't a girl both attract sexual attention AND respect?

i'm on this boat.

scantily clad bimbos with the iq of an unboiled easter egg repulse me no matter how much skin they flash in my direction.

smart, intelligent women with personalities that i find desirable are more attractive, no matter how many layers of clothes they are hiding under

[Hank]

Mikko_Sandt, on 01 March 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

Such men are animals and they should be eradicated rather than appeased.

Absolute statements like this makes it impossible to intelligibly debate human nature with the politically correct brainwashed collective. (b.t.w. "asking for it" = Rape is about Power and Control, not lust and mini skirts, so make sure you'll get the 'right' animals)

One one hand, mini skirts were invented by the fashion industry (men) to arouse on the other hand those that are shall be annihilated because they get aroused, because they still show animalism and that is not the intent of the mini skirt..

[Forge]

if a women decides to wear anything remotely revealing that day, it's her full intent to attract leers and physical desires from men?

sounds like speculation to me

if she's going out club hopping, maybe. if she's going down to the market to get a loaf of bread, doubtful.

[Hank]

Forge, on 01 March 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

if a women decides to wear anything remotely revealing that day, it's her full intent to attract leers and physical desires from men?

sounds like speculation to me

if she's going out club hopping, maybe. if she's going down to the market to get a loaf of bread, doubtful.

The actual intent of a person dressed in a given outfit is somewhat unknown. In a free world, you are free to express yourself any which way. But let's be honest here, you go to the super market, you stand in line on the cash register, a woman stand in front of you, bends over and takes the bread out of her cart, skirt unable to hide her panties - what do you think?

[Radar]

Mikko_Sandt, on 01 March 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

For the exact same reasons as you were prior to "showing your body". In fact, there are instances where individuals should be respected more for taking off their clothes, such as when a woman in a conservative country protests against patriarchal oppression by dressing in a skimpy outfit. Of course, in the eyes of some subhuman "men", wearing a skimpy outfit is a signal that you're "asking for it". Such men are animals and they should be eradicated rather than appeased.

Shouldn't we still respect women no matter how many clothes they decide to put on as well?

[Forge]

Hank, on 01 March 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

The actual intent of a person dressed in a given outfit is somewhat unknown. In a free world, you are free to express yourself any which way. But let's be honest here, you go to the super market, you stand in line on the cash register, a woman stand in front of you, bends over and takes the bread out of her cart, skirt unable to hide her panties - what do you think?

i think it's a good thing she's wearing panties. depending on her hygiene practices she could traumatize any children present

[Sangman]

I think some of you guys need to hang around with women more and maybe you'll have less idiotic opinions about them.

[Forge]

using the previously stated example: is there supposed to be a huge difference between seeing a woman's panties because her skirt's too short or seeing her in a bikini?

are we now to assume that when a woman puts on a swimsuit and lounges beside a pool or at a beach her sole intent is to attract the attention of any males present instead of swimming and getting some sun?

i declare shenanigans

[Hank]

Forge, on 01 March 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

i declare shenanigans

Really? Old fashion swim suits looked like mini skirts, I wonder who is the shenanigan here

[Kathy]

Radar, on 01 March 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Shouldn't we still respect women no matter how many clothes they decide to put on as well?

We should respect other people, whether it's man or woman. And length of a clothes doesn't mean you should be less respectful.

[Forge]

Forge, on 01 March 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

is there supposed to be a huge difference between seeing a woman's panties because her skirt's too short or seeing her in a bikini?

Hank, on 01 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Old fashion swim suits looked like mini skirts

so there is no huge difference

thanks for the verification


whoever turned this thread into a social commentary *cough-Achenar-cough* should be hung by their toes

women are people, not some different species. they dress, act, and do things in certain ways for the exact same reasons as men. treat others as you would want to be treated. is it really that hard to figure out?

edit: and if you're some kind of social deviant that wants to treat women like a piece of meat, then you should be put in a jail cell with half a dozen 300 pound hairy perverts for a month and see how you like it.

[Forge]

just to be counter-productive:

5'1" 250+ lb people should not be allowed to wear lime green spandex body suits.

my retinas may never recover

[Jimmy]

Sangman, on 01 March 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

I think some of you guys need to hang around with women more and maybe you'll have less idiotic opinions about them.

[Radar]

I think some of you guys need to open your minds a bit more and realize that we can still have perfectly fine social lives with women and debate about a topic like this without the nagging of some discussion-killing dweebs that think they know better by pretending they are the unique ones with perfect social lives with women on a forum where you can make up everything about yourself anyway.

[Sangman]

LOL are you seriously that far removed from reality you consider it impossible for a person to not only post on a forum but also interact with women (in this case: colleagues, friends, ...) on a daily basis? Quite frankly if you indeed have a social life like that you'd realize women are people too whose respect you have for should really not be determined by the amount of clothing they wear..

(of course, this all depends on the social setting, I would ask questions about showing up at work in a bikini, depending on where you work that is)

[Forge]

hmm..
maybe i'm just old and desensitized to the whole situation.

been married 20+ years, worked with women as my subordinates, equals, and supervisors for 20 years. watched my nieces and friend's daughters grow up from babies to young women.

i just don't view women as anything other than an equal.

this discussion needed to be killed by pretentious unique dweebs. the thread was originally supposed to be light-hearted and a little silly, but the politically correct police stormed in and started slinging "sexism and harassment" mud.

this led to," what if you see a woman on the street with a skirt level up around her neck and hello kitty panties? she obviously wants the sexually implied attention".

objectifying women is just plain stupid and barbaric

[Hank]

Actually it would be nice to tolerate different opinions without jumping to them. Especially the not so political correct one's, or is that an auto exclude here? It seem a paradox to preach respect but unable to show it.

@ Forge - I missed your post. - Watch out for the political correct, the new religion, you are toast,

[Forge]

Hank, on 02 March 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Actually it would be nice to tolerate different opinions without jumping to them. Especially the not so political correct one's, or is that an auto exclude here? It seem a paradox to preach respect but unable to show it.

preach respect but not able to show it?

so people should stand back and "respect" other people that are freely allowed to express their sexism, racism, gay-bashing, bigoted points of view?

how is it respectful to allow others to disrespect and generalize?

different points of view are fine and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but there is an invisible line drawn in the sand that's going to get reactions when it's crossed

[Sangman]

Forge, on 02 March 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

this discussion needed to be killed by pretentious unique dweebs. the thread was originally supposed to be light-hearted and a little silly, but the politically correct police stormed in and started slinging "sexism and harassment" mud.
...
objectifying women is just plain stupid and barbaric

I don't get the comment about pretentious unique dweebs because you seem to agree with their opinions. Though yes, I agree this thread really shouldn't have devolved into an argument like this and it just proves why we can't have nice things around here: the average poster on Duke4.net cares too much about their own opinion

[Hank]

Why does one post? To express an opinion, naturally it will be his/her focal point. I think, there is no average poster at duke4. It is much too small of a group, with regular posters, to get an average.
I love it here, so I resent your statement somewhat.

[Forge]

Sangman, on 02 March 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

I don't get the comment about pretentious unique dweebs because you seem to agree with their opinions. Though yes, I agree this thread really shouldn't have devolved into an argument like this and it just proves why we can't have nice things around here: the average poster on Duke4.net cares too much about their own opinion

i do agree with the pretentious unique dweebs. i even explained my situation that made me one.

the thread was fine until someone started the whole sexism point of view. i even agree with that, but it should have never been brought up in the first place

i'm surprised nobody brought up the adult entertainment industry and the influences on perceptions. of course if you can't tell the difference between a woman paid to have sex and the average woman on the street, you need therapy.

Hank, on 02 March 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Why does one post? To express an opinion, naturally it will be his/her focal point.

everyone should be allowed to post their opinion, but there's is a point when far has become too far. seems like there's always one or two in a crowd that either have no concept that not everyone thinks like them, or they purposefully go over the edge for the reaction

[Radar]

Sangman, on 02 March 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

LOL are you seriously that far removed from reality you consider it impossible for a person to not only post on a forum but also interact with women (in this case: colleagues, friends, ...) on a daily basis? Quite frankly if you indeed have a social life like that you'd realize women are people too whose respect you have for should really not be determined by the amount of clothing they wear..

(of course, this all depends on the social setting, I would ask questions about showing up at work in a bikini, depending on where you work that is)

To answer the first sentence: No, i'm not. That wasn't my point at all. My point was that you seemed to think you were one of the only ones.

And my relationship with women is fine, thanks. I grew up with four sisters and no brothers; they were all I had while I was maturing. I have a great relationship with my mom and I talk to a fairly decent amount of women on a daily basis.

[Sangman]

Radar, on 02 March 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

My point was that you seemed to think you were one of the only ones.

Not my fault you read that into what I said But I do believe some people here with the more stupid (IMO) opinions probably have those because they're inexperienced.

Quote

Why does one post? To express an opinion, naturally it will be his/her focal point.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course but that doesn't mean it needs to be brought up all the time. Imagine having a normal chat in a bar where semi-rude things are said and some overly politically correct idiot steps in and tries to blow it up in a huge discussion... To me, posting on a forum is more like hanging out at a bar and I don't need to read every buffoon's deepest thoughts 24/7, just keep that to the threads that are meant for such things.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Guys, I have a name, you know.

[Forge]

Forge, on 01 March 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

whoever turned this thread into a social commentary *cough-Achenar-cough* should be hung by their toes

sometimes it's okay to let things slide when there's no ill intent. it's not always necessary to be on politically correct patrol and police up every thread

but don't think you get sole credit. you may have started it, but you're not the only one who decided to take the moral high ground and ruin what was once a humorous thread

when people take the moral low path and start objectifying others or talking about them like they're less than human based on race, gender, sexual preference, etc. I feel like i have to pipe in.

they're entitled to their opinion, but they should walk a mile in the shoes of the people they're berating, put up with the same crap those people have to deal with, and get a taste of their own medicine before they let stupid things fall out of their face hole

[Radar]

Achenar, on 02 March 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

Guys, I have a name, you know.

Of course we know that. "Pretentious unique dweeb" is just an alias we've adopted for you.