[ox-skull]

Hi dukers, Im starting a cliff map, which will have heavy use of TROR. The goal is to make as complex cliffs as i can, without a massive FPS drop.
This map is more of a test, than a playable map. TROR is the coolest thing to ever happen and i want to test it limits.

Since picking build/mapster up agian, i learnt TROR fairly quickly, and know alot of build tricks from my hayday.

Just a question about slopes, is there a way to orientate the way it slopes without having to split the sector the old-school way?

Thanks for your time.

EDIT: I just checked the help menu in mapster for the TROR 2D sector commands but i cant seem to find them.

[Zaxtor]

Massive FPS drop are caused by heavy sectored area and sprites viewed on same screen (visual range).

Simple TROR do not cause lag as I know of.
I have a large pit in my mod with dozens of TROR over eachothers (reasons cus downer you goes, brighter and hotter it get). Light level change per TROR.

No lag problems.

Massive TROR with tons of sectors, sprites can lag unless you have a really fast computer.
With my old PC my mod would lag like hell.
With this 1, np.
No lag.

You can make Sloped TROR. Sloping them sometime doesn't work if they're multi sectors etc.

I slop "single sector" TROR.

Hope this help.

I think 250-256 TROR is max per map.
One of my map reached max.

Well was with previous version of Eduke32/mapster, dunno if they've changed the max/

[Micky C]

If you've hit the maximum and would like to add more TROR, Helix said that he'd be willing to increase the max if somebody needed it.

[Zaxtor]

Level that hit max is finished, the current max as JUST enough, if max would be 1 less, would be problematic.
Also was my VERY first TROR level.

Secret level btw.

So yes max should be increased.

[ox-skull]

An increase in TROR in a map would be great.

Just too clarify two questions from original post:

Are the TROR shortcut keys listed in the mapster32 help list? I could be blind.

And with sloping, can they be made to slope the way you want without having to split them.

Here is an image of the base of the cliffs.

http://img15.imagesh...50/duke0002.png

And heres an example of having to split the sector to get it to slope the way you want.

http://img802.images...92/duke0005.png

Thanks.

EDIT: With the oceansprite, the rock like one you can see in the cliffs image, is there a hi or lotag to disable it being destroyed when shot?

[Micky C]

Yeah you do have to split the sectors. Sloping hasn't changed since 1996 or anything, which is a bit of a shame.

There's nothing you can do to the oceansprite that doesn't involve adding code to your map, it's just one of those annoying hardcoded actors.

Blind about TROR shortcuts? Of course not, they're only listed in not only the wiki list of mapster32 keys but on the TROR wiki page as well.

[ox-skull]

Thanks for that Micky C.

With sloping, i seem to remember when splitting the sector, add slope then join the sectors back up.
Sometimes the sector would retain its new orientation.

[Micky C]

That sounds weird. The sector can only be sloped by it's firstwall. It needs to have at least one wall perpendicular to the direction you want to slope it. I think an alternative to this might be to enable the expert mode script and join the sector to a separate sector that has a different slope, but that can be messy and I wouldn't recommend it.

If you know what you're doing, you can make some realistic terrain though. I've inspected some of DanM's unreleased maps which have all kinds of funky shapes that fit together nicely and I can't make any sense of of how he did it

[ox-skull]

I have taken the liberty of showing you what i mean about sector spliting and joining affecting the slope orientation.

http://imageshack.us...nglesector.jpg/

http://imageshack.us...ectorsplit.jpg/

http://imageshack.us...07/orient1.jpg/

http://imageshack.us...46/orient2.jpg/

Do you see what I mean with the rejoining?

[Micky C]

You mean split them and have them not change their firstwall? Yes that would be nice. I think Helix said he made it like that at some point but obviously it didn't work.

[ox-skull]

Micky C, on 03 November 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

You mean split them and have them not change their firstwall? Yes that would be nice. I think Helix said he made it like that at some point but obviously it didn't work.

After you split the sector, you can see in the first of the last two screenshots, If you join top sector to the bottom one, into a single sector it produces orientation thats different from the sectors original.

Then agian, if you join the bottom sector to top sector, into a single sector, it will yield a third orientation.

I havnt managed to get the sector to ever go back to the first original orientation seen in the first pic.

Using this method, i remember managing to get sectors to slope the way i wanted(single sector slopes) but not always.

In the second picture, lets say this is the desired orientation you want after splitting, sometimes joining it back up would keep that orientation, but in the example ive shown this isnt the case.

What im explaining is a method of getting sectors that arnt sloping how u want, to slope the way you want but at the same time keeping it 1 sector.

[Hendricks266]

Micky C, on 03 November 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

Sloping hasn't changed since 1996 or anything, which is a bit of a shame.

Considering Build's sloping is limited to a plane hinged on one wall, what are you looking for in sloping?

[Micky C]

Hendricks266, on 03 November 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

Considering Build's sloping is limited to a plane hinged on one wall, what are you looking for in sloping?

I remember a discussion about being able to raise and lower the points of a sector separately, and for complicated sectors that might not be practical, but I've always wondered if there could be an exception for triangular sectors so that they don't need to slope to a first wall.

Of course what I was thinking of at the time of writing that post was some kind of terrain or hill/valley automatic generation tool where you could outline a shape, set some parameters, press go et voila... but I know this has been tried before in LEBuild without huge success.

[ox-skull]

Ive got a question regarding TROR.

As you can see in the image, I have a whitewall.

http://img820.images.../whitelinep.jpg

Here is a mapster32 shot, but whitewall doesnt seem to be effecting the TROR. I can walk through it.

http://imageshack.us...whiteline2.jpg/

And another shot in-game.

http://img194.images.../whiteline3.jpg

Is this a TROR mistake, it doesnt glitch or anything like that while playing it.

Thanks.

[Micky C]

That white wall is probably from the layer below. You need to get into the habit of posting orthogonal view shots otherwise we can't help you much. Press F3 in 2D mode to trigger orthogonal view. You can then rotate the map in several directions to get a better visualisation.

[ox-skull]

Hello agian,

If I was to make some simple static models, like various types of rocks, and used certain textures of dukes like the mountain texture in my map,
would that be an infringment on the Eduke32 copyright laws?

Or must I use my own textures?

Thanks again.

EDIT: I have blender 2.6, and ive been searching for the MD3 converter, but im unsure of which one i need or do i need to revert back to an earlier blender.
Also, I checked my map with the isometric view(F3), and yeah the white line is from bottom sector, so its all good.

Thanks agian Micky for answering my questions.

[LeoD]

ox-skull, on 03 November 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

If I was to make some simple static models, like various types of rocks, and used certain textures of dukes like the mountain texture in my map,
would that be an infringment on the Eduke32 copyright laws?

Or must I use my own textures?

Short answer: Most likely you'll be fine when re-using such textures for a map meant to be played with the original duke3d.grp under the terms of the HRP Art license.

Long answer: You seriously need to get the terms together or you'll put yourself in legal danger when publishing anything.

Law: applies internationally and/or locally in your country and may set the rules how licenses are to be interpreted/applied.

The EDuke32 source/executable's licenses (BUILDLIC and GPL) have nothing to do with the graphics, sounds and music of the Duke Nukem 3D game which are still property of 3D Realms.

Concerning low resolution art: AFAIK 3D Realms has never complained if someone had bundled a user map with an ART file which contained new art together with original or modified Duke3D art. Bundling third party stuff is a different cup of tea however.

For high resolution art derived from original Duke3D art the HRP Art License applies.

My interpretation is that quite some of the HRP's art does not necessarily have to be put under the HRP Art License by its creator, if:
- it is made from scratch and not by modifying orginal textures
- and it does not resemble Duke-specific art like, for example, Duke himself, the enemies, fictional weapons like the shrinker, or the Biker Bimbos poster.

Therefore, if you distribute art derived from duke3d.grp or the HRP together with your map, add the HRP Art License to the ZIP and you are fine. If you want to use simple stuff, like the mentioned rock textures, for other purposes than user maps / mods, ask the original author for permission.

[ox-skull]

Thanks for the info, is all clear now.

[ox-skull]

Hi again Dukers,

Im having some troubles with TROR,

http://img401.images...questionpic.jpg

Im trying to join this TROR sector I loop punched to the indicated vertices.

http://img543.images...uestionpic1.jpg

Currently i just have them floating there on those verts, it glitches in mapster, but renders in game glitch free.
But i dont like the sector overlaping the indicated verts wall, i always join the verts and should be 1 wall.
I have managed to join the verts, but i ended up with map errors.

Anyone know how to join them properly?

Thanks.

[Micky C]

If everything's extended then you need to make the heights of the TROR surface the same, then either join the floors or the ceilings, I can't remember which, but mapster comes up with a message telling you what to do in the console if you get it wrong.

[ox-skull]

I'm having troubles with it still.

When i tried joining it, it told me sectors must have the same amount of walls, I fixed that.

Then I made the 2 sectors same shape.

Now i'm prompted with joining yellow ceiling to blue floor and some other questions.
Regardless of the order i choose, it just seems to create a mess.

Ive gone over the TROR wiki countless times.

I tried also doing it while in the top extended sector but ctrl-J doesn't register, only works on bottom level.

thanks.

[Micky C]

Ctrl j? I thought you meant the regular sector joining. What you're doing sounds complicated and definitely too complicated to try to explain to others. I don't know what you're trying to do but I'm sure there's a much simpler way to do it than what you're doing now, and IMO you shouldn't be working on a releasable map utilizing heavy TROR unless you have a firm understanding of how TROR works, it's limitations, and the functions that allow you to manipulate it. Just the same as we strongly discourage noobs from releasing their first maps because they're still learning the editor and the effects.

I didn't go from nothing straight to Parkade, I made two full maps using heavy TROR, one from scratch and one mostly retrofitted, and they were both great learning experiences.

[ox-skull]

Well, I spent most of my teens using build nearly everyday.

Most of the SE stuff comes back to me as I go.
I made alot of maps, medeviel towns, duke type maps, space stations, I used redneck rampages textures as well as dukes, RR ran like crap on my 486 dx4 100mhz.

While making maps, in the back of my mind i always wished it was true 3D.
Ive only come back to build/mapster because of the TROR implementation.

So learning its limitations and what it can do is what I want to master.

ontopic:

I have tried a new way, which now doesnt glitch in mapster or in-game, and it has no mapster errors, so for now im happy.

[Helixhorned]

Micky C, on 03 November 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

You mean split them and have them not change their firstwall? Yes that would be nice. I think Helix said he made it like that at some point but obviously it didn't work.

r3157 commit message said:

Mapster32: set first walls more conveniently on split in one special case.

Specifically, if the first wall of the sector-to-split is to the left or right
of the *start* of the splitting line AND the sector has no TROR extensions,
make these two the new nextwalls of the respective split sectors.

^^^ heh, I meant to say "make these two the new firstwalls".

@ox-skull: posting the map might help, since it's not easy to give assistance based on screenshots, especially with TROR.

[ox-skull]

Sure no prob helix ill do some double checking on what ive made so far.

[ox-skull]

Here is the map, its a WIP.

Attached File(s)

•  Cliffs.zip (21.54K)
  Number of downloads: 200

[Cage]

Hey, I've got a little question and I've decided to use this thread instead of making a new one, hope that's okay.

How do you auto-align wall textures like in the old mapster? It seems that "." key aligns only the next wall, with ctrl (or alt, can't remember) it aligns all surrounding walls with the texture, but it's kinda weird - seems that Y coordinates are messed up and there are seams in places they shouldn't.

[underTaker]

I press Ctrl + couple times "." key. It works for me, but i'd like to know if there is any more "elegant" solution.

[ox-skull]

Thats the way i do it as well. Ctrl + "."

Like undertaker said, i just press it couple times.

[Helixhorned]

ox-skull, on 15 November 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

Here is the map, its a WIP.

That map is perfectly fine. The white line if from the lower layer and shows up when you haven't grayed out anything.