[ck3D]

Review by Mikko at MSDN : http://msdn.duke4.net/hotwideawake.php
Review by Forge at CGS : http://www.scent-88....e/wideawake.php

A city block at night. Local amenities include a swimming pool, apartments, a grocery store, a sewer system and more. Duke wakes up in his hotel room, finds out that the city is under attack, yadda yadda, you think you know the deal, this time around you will have to figure out a way to get to that boss though...

This map was started as a practice map on my mother's laptop while I was visiting (I had not touched the editor in months and suddenly felt like seeing how rusty I had become), I eventually kept working on it on and off on different computers once back home as it was quickly growing and it eventually turned into this. I hope you will enjoy playing it as much as I enjoyed making it...

In this map I wanted to focus on the gameplay, layout and feel rather than on just throwing in massive amounts of decoration and eye-candy, in the end this level is in fact very much in the vein of the maps I contributed to the Metropolitan Mayhem episode and I personally find that it feels like some kind of original duke 3D level / lameduke map hybrid with some bits of modernish style here and there (does that make any sense ?).



Oh and this level is primarily intended to be played in classic mode, be it 8 or 32 bit, of course feel free to play it whatever way you want but I am not sure it is going to look very good if you use, say, the HRP or any novelty of the sort. It does not go over the old Build limits either (with only 627 sectors, 4661 walls, and 1740 sprites), and is fully playable with just an OG version of the Atomic Edition. No new art, no music, no new cons, just a plain, old-school styled map release.

Attached File(s)

•  Wide Awake final.zip (70.6K)
  Number of downloads: 417

[Micky C]

It matches lameduke's brown style at least judging from the screenshots. I don't have time to play this for a few days but it's at the top of my list. It's great to see people are suddenly coming out of the woodwork with lots of new high quality map releases. Oh, and this should definitely be moved to the user maps and level editing session, as that's the place for release threads.

[ck3D]

I know about the wrong section, I have reported my own post already... Couldn't find a way to move it myself. Silly silly me.

[MetHy]

ck3D, on 17 October 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

fully playable with just an OG version of the Atomic Edition.

Wrong, the filename has 9 characters. Your map name has to be 8 characters long maximum to play in original Duke without a port

[Mikko]

Awesome news, will play the map later today.

[MetHy]

I couldn't beat the boss because I didn't find the RPG! I played the whole map with no RPG actually and it was really fun because it makes us use weapons they way you're not used to (using tripmines, tripbombs a lot, using the freezer against BLords). Counting deaths it took me almost 30 minutes to get to the end boss (I died quite a lot, played on Come Get Some).

Level layout and progression is fun too with a lot of variety to never keep us bored.

very refreshing map! I'll probably replay it tonight and try to find that damn RPG and secrets (didn't find any)

[ck3D]

yeah there are quite a few secret locations in this map, most of them hold extra health and ammo at key moments of the gameplay including the very beginning but to be fair they are not all that well hidden (except one perhaps, which is an entire apartment somewhere, reminiscing of e1l1). the RPG is in one of them, at some point not too far from the end (i won't spoil unless someone asks me though), RPG ammo can be found in the very same room so if anything that should hint to its location. if you ran out of ammo altogether, that might be because you were playing on come get some (it has some extra monsters but no extra ammo), the devastator at the end of the map should be enough to take the last boss down by itself now, or isn't it ?

and glad that you liked the alternate weapon choice... that was my aim, i wasn't sure how it was all going to work at first, but i am pretty happy with how i implemented it in the end.

[Jinroh]

Map looks cool man, I'll have to check it out this weekend.

[LeoD]

ck3D, on 17 October 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

and glad that you liked the alternate weapon choice... that was my aim, i wasn't sure how it was all going to work at first, but i am pretty happy with how i implemented it in the end.

Yup, it works out fine except for the very beginning. I died quite some times until I figured out what to do first. I found four secrets but not the RPG and therefore had some fun with the shrinker. Nice work.

[Mike Norvak]

Nice!!!!!!! Good news you're back!!!! Playing this later. Damn I need time to play this map and the other one by Paul

[underTaker]

I just have finished it.

The layout and generally look was great! I really liked the atmosphere and the locations. And i think it was the first time i actually seen operating swinging doors with bolted planks with label keep out!

The gameplay was good too for me. In fact it was really hard for me and i had to play it several times, it still gave me fun. (well, i always swear when i'm playing games... ) It wasn't boring in no time, except the beginning, when i just couldn't find where to go. Just later i reminded myself i got jetpack and i can check higher locations

In summary, the map was really cool.

[MetHy]

I loved the beginning; but that's probably because I was always a huge survival horror fan and I love running around with threats at my back trying to find where to go or weapons.

[Forge]

Another free review at no cost or obligation, brought to you by CGS!

http://www.scent-88....e/wideawake.php

[MetHy]

Played it a 2nd time. This time I found 4 secrets out of 5 but I only found the RPG because of your hint earlier in this thread.

Spoiler

I knew something was up with those crates but I kept trying to blow them up the first time through because they're made out of sprites.
Nice little secret apartment by the way.

Also this time I even found a non-mandatory place I didn't go through the first time (the shop'n'bag) which made the following parts a bit easier.

Anyway here is a few more comments :
-In the swimming pool reception, for some reasons the door of the booth that's supposed to open when you're walking on the sector didn't open the first time through the first time I played the map, only when I went back.

-Are both BLords supposed to be standing on the floats of the swimming pool or just one? During my first play, 2 of them were standing for some time before the left one ended up underwater. During my 2nd play the 2nd one seemed to be directly underwater.

-Each time I go down this shaft in 8-bit mode eduke32 crashes. It's fine when I switch to 32-bit. (if nobody else had this problem I can give my eduke32 version number)
http://i101.photobuc...n3/duke0010.jpg

-I don't think it's possible to beat the boss with auto-aim on because the rockets keep shooting the spaceship just above the Cycloid.
I always play with auto-aim on because IMO that's how classic Duke gameplay was intended to be. Considering that I don't remember it being possible to turn off auto-aim in the original DOS game, that would be another reason why the map wouldn't be fully playable in the original game.
Also, maybe I'm dumb, but it took me a while to realize that you have to shoot him through the part that's colored differently. I didn't realize the green part was a shield because the boss' rockets do go through, and also because I could neither hear (due to all the sounds the spaceship make; which is a good mix of sound btw I'm not complaining about that) nor see that he wasn't getting hit by my rockets.
I think the whole boss fight is boring and annoying. You have to stay in the corner of the rooftop to be able to shoot him and keep crouching/jumping.
Anybody else got a problem with the boss or is it just me?

Kind of a shame about the boss because everything else about this map is good. I think I even like this map better than some of your hyper-detailed ones such as Filler.
Like I said it's very refreshing : it focuses on interesting gameplay ideas first with interesting weapon choices, enemy placements and level layout.
Plus it seems that it took you a lot less time to build this one than other maps; yet it still takes almost half an hour to beat it and design is still good in the end (great shading, simple but clean and solid texturing, a few coloured area to break the dark mood).

The only thing this map is lacking in is the "MRCK touch"; by that I mean the small humoristic stuffs you usually put here and there in your maps. Here I could only find 2 "MRCK touches" : the BLord standing on one of those floats in the swimming pool and

Spoiler

the "scary" thing you can see behind the semi-opened door of the secret apartment.

P.S: speaking of the "MRCK touch" : did you notice the small reference I made to your maps in Galbadia? Hint : it's in the apartment with the NES.

[Loke]

MetHy, on 17 October 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

-I don't think it's possible to beat the boss with auto-aim on because the rockets keep shooting the spaceship just above the Cycloid.
I always play with auto-aim on because IMO that's how classic Duke gameplay was intended to be. Considering that I don't remember it being possible to turn off auto-aim in the original DOS game, that would be another reason why the map wouldn't be fully playable in the original game.
Also, maybe I'm dumb, but it took me a while to realize that you have to shoot him through the part that's colored differently.
Anybody else got a problem with the boss or is it just me?

Summed up my experience as well. Had to turn off auto-aim (I always play with it on) otherwise the Devastator rockets would aim above the shield entrance and hit the ship. Very awkward battle though.

[MetHy]

Same thing with RPG rockets

[Paul B]

MetHy, on 17 October 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Same thing with RPG rockets

Sorry ... I had to resort to cheating on Let's Rock... After dying over 30 times I gave up. I made it as far as the mini boss in the red keylock area before I started to cheat. Needless to say I found 4 out of 5 secrets. The last secret probably being the most crucial which I only found after viewing the map in the editor. I found there to be too many mini bosses before I could locate a better gun to deal with them. However it would have helped if I found that RPG sooner. It still took me half an hr to play it though.The highlight for me on this map was: The burning appartment complex. I really enjoyed how you laid it out with locked doors and switches to unlock them afterwards. Also the boss sitting upside down in the space ship was really unique and unexpected.

thanks for sharing

[Mike Norvak]

Love this map man!!!! I'll post my thoughts later

[rasmus thorup]

Man this map was good. Gameplay on come get some was spot on. Ammo given was spot on. I like the idea of having to find the weapons at start of a map. I died 2 times at the start of the map, it was hard to find weapons and ammo, but fun. Very good map. I think some people would love to see some more details, but that's the only thing as i see it.

[ck3D]

Thanks for all the comments.

MetHy, on 17 October 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

I knew something was up with those crates but I kept trying to blow them up the first time through because they're made out of sprites.

They aren't made out of sprites, but I can see why one could think they are (they are square-ish... as in crate square-ish). Destructible crates I have done before in my maps, and I think it is a nice feature but in my opinion it is never obvious enough to the player because they usually have the reverse thought process (they are used to the solid crates of the original levels and most user maps, and never really try to blow them up, I think they check if one of them is open and holds a secret place more often than not). Happy that you liked the secret apartment - that area, along with several other instances such as the burning car, were direct references to E1L1 (and its Duke Nukem 64 counterpart for the burning car).

MetHy, on 17 October 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Also this time I even found a non-mandatory place I didn't go through the first time (the shop'n'bag) which made the following parts a bit easier.

It is a shame you missed the Shop N Bag the first time around, I really thought I had made the crack more obvious than that. After all the Shop N Bag holds the shotgun, night vision googles (very useful in the sewers, or during the swimming pool fight but you should already have been through that one), and a worthy amount of health and ammo. It triggers a fun fight against pigcops and commanders outside too !

MetHy, on 17 October 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

-In the swimming pool reception, for some reasons the door of the booth that's supposed to open when you're walking on the sector didn't open the first time through the first time I played the map, only when I went back.

That's because the sector that triggers the effect (using a touchplate) is actually very thin, I re-used a triangle-shaped sector I had quickly made before to build the forcefield for that. I could have given the touchplate its own sector, but figured that seeing as it was just a quick, 'bonus' effect it wasn't really worth the ten seconds it would have taken, I actually like it when a (non-crucial) effect only happens randomly like that upon different playthroughs, so that it keeps surprising the player everytime. So many instances of such things to be found in the original levels as well depending on whether or not the player triggers a non-obvious touchplate.

MetHy, on 17 October 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

-Are both BLords supposed to be standing on the floats of the swimming pool or just one? During my first play, 2 of them were standing for some time before the left one ended up underwater. During my 2nd play the 2nd one seemed to be directly underwater.

One of them is supposed to stay afloat and the other one is supposed to sink. Working with that little gameplay feature made me figure out a few things I didn't know in the Battlelord's behavior, which are always useful from a mapper's point of view : Battlelords are coded so that they will never get into water sectors unless they are directly spawned in them (otherwise they will get stuck at their limits as though they were stayput) ; if you spawn one at floor level on a water sector, it will stay afloat (and occasionally glitch a little during the shooting animations, looking like it's jumping a few inches out of the water while it is firing its guns) ; on the other hand if you spawn one a few inches off the ground on the water sector, it will sink and get warped to the underwater sector accordingly. I discovered that by accident, at first I wanted a double Battlelord underwater fight, but one of them would always stay afloat. Upon further investigation I understood why and fixed it, but I quickly realized that having to fight one of them in the pool above the surface, then another one underwater worked a lot better (it was more fun, added diversity and continuity, and they wouldn't accidently shoot each other as often). I like that the mortars thrown underwater by the second one can actually explode at the surface of the other sector too !

MetHy, on 17 October 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

-I don't think it's possible to beat the boss with auto-aim on because the rockets keep shooting the spaceship just above the Cycloid.

That's weird, this started happening to me just one (very minor) revision before the final release and seeing as it had never happened before I assumed that it was a glitch related to the current playthrough. I did manage to kill the boss without turning autoaim off though, with the devastator, switching to mouse aiming instead and aiming for the bottom of the boss sprite, then it works. For some reason that is also the revision during which the rockets thrown by the boss started to behave awkwardly (when you stand too far away from the spaceship at street level, ie. near the swamp area thing, the rockets fly directly up to the sky and explode in mid-air, whereas they used to shoot downwards diagonally along the entire street regardless of the player's location, and would track him down for as long as he entered that street section).

MetHy, on 17 October 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

P.S: speaking of the "MRCK touch" : did you notice the small reference I made to your maps in Galbadia? Hint : it's in the apartment with the NES.

I will go check !
EDIT - oh yes I remember seeing that and thinking it was smart ! nice !

[ck3D]

I didn't think anyone would find the map to be that hard though... let alone hard enough to go as far as cheating. I am well aware that the beginning can be a bit disorientating at first, given the unorthodox weapon and health distribution, but there are a lot of pipebombs and tripmines to be found to get rid off the pigcops at floor level, the jetpack is accessible pretty much right away, there is a safe viewscreen in the first room that hints to the location of both said weapons and jetpack, as well as where to go next. There are +30 medkits and atomic healths all over the place on the edge of the buildings, fairly obvious secret and non-secret places to take cover if needed, and even a secret pistol accessible at floor level for those who really want to kill those lizmen before they enter the first building (at first I really wanted the pistol to be found in the first building only, so that the player would be forced to go outside again a bit later after reaching the swimming pool in order to take care of the bad guys he had left behind... but I eventually went out of my way and added one in a trash can because I knew some people wouldn't like that). Playing on Let's Rock there really is a lot of weaponry and health left over once you complete the map, and while most items are a bit out of sight it is not like they are literally hidden either. I am not questioning the criticism really, I am just a bit puzzled because I really thought I had made the map too easy (at least in comparison to how I usually like to play and make maps), so I was not expecting this kind of reaction, it is interesting.

Forge : thank you for your review. Good job as usual. I have added a link to it in my first post, and replied in the thread on the CGS forum.

[Mikko]

I didn't find the map difficult, merely challenging because of the scarcity of guns. I died twice until the end, first when I dove into the pool and ended up right in front of a Battlelord and second in the Octabrain filled sewer. Then I died of my own Devastator three times during the boss fight because of the crappy angle and thickness of the edge, so I switched to the RPG which was a breeze. Took me 20 minutes, found two secrets.

[Mikko]

Here's a review: http://msdn.duke4.net/hotwideawake.php

[ck3D]

Damn neat review. Thank you for your time, I am glad you enjoyed the map that much. I hope you will enjoy the next one I have in line as well, even though I am quite unsure it will be released anytime soon... got loads of original ideas for it.

[MetHy]

There is one thing I forgot to mention : I liked how wide the map was, there is a lot of space for fights (hence the title I guess ? ).
However I'd say the street is maybe a bit too wide : during fights there is nothing to hide behind so you're forced to hide in building corners. A car or a box or something on the streets would have fixed that, those usually make gameplay more fun (think of FBSP003 and how you can crouch behind cars to fight Battlelords for example).

[Merlijn]

Neat level! I think the progression and different approach to gameplay is this maps greatest strength. I never found the RPG, but still managed to beat the battlelords with my freezer. And sometimes I just avoided them. I like how the jetpack plays an important part in the level, this doesn't happen very often. This worked very well. Also love how this map encouraged me to use tripbombs and pipebombs, I usually don't use those weapons at all.

If I have one complaint it would be the darkness, I would love to see a brighter map from you one of these days. The outdoor area could have used some strong lightning for example (from lanterns, car lights or fire). It's a minor complaint though, design is good even though it's a bit more 'simplified'. I also liked how you used different colors (the blue room is probably my fav.).

Boss fight was really easy btw, the auto-aim bug didn't occur and I could easily kill the bastard.

[ck3D]

I had been typing a fairly long reply to MetHy's and Merlijn's post for the past ten minutes, then my internet crashed and I lost everything. So I am just going to thank you both for playing the map and appreciating its originality. To make a long story short, I was deliberately trying to avoid certain patterns that I think most Duke mappers and players are used to, that distracts them from considering all the possibilities offered by the game... This was just a test map, but if I ever end up releasing more maps they are definitely going to feature a lot of stuff noone has ever seen, not necessarily in terms of technical effects (which have never been my strong suit and make for an aspect that has been dominated and beaten to bits for years already anyway), but in terms of taking advantage of the features of the game, and imagination. I am making a mental note of all your feedback. Thank you for your time and once again, I am glad you liked this little map.

On a side note, I was watching youtube videos of Zaxtor's Oblivion TC the other day on youtube. How come that dude never got any recognition whatsoever outside a certain minority in the Duke Nukem 3D community ? the amount of work and thought he seems to have put in his creation is unbelievable. Probably ten times worth what any company puts into a modern game nowadays, or what most modern artists put into their work in general.

[Mikko]

ck3D, on 22 October 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

On a side note, I was watching youtube videos of Zaxtor's Oblivion TC the other day on youtube. How come that dude never got any recognition whatsoever outside a certain minority in the Duke Nukem 3D community ? the amount of work and thought he seems to have put in his creation is unbelievable. Probably ten times worth what any company puts into a modern game nowadays, or what most modern artists put into their work in general.

Most people get stuck in the first map or something and give up.

[Merlijn]

Yeah, Zaxtors levels have brilliant design, but (usually) terrible gameplay. Remember, it's the guy who thought starting a map with a 5 minute elevator ride whilst listening to Pink Floyd was a good idea.

A shame really, if the gameplay and voice acting were just as good as the mapping, Oblivion would be an absolute classic.

[MetHy]

Design-wise Zaxtor's maps are great and unique; you can tell his mind his flowing with ideas and he knows build/mapster like the back of his hand. However my main concern is that puzzles and level progression are sometimes too hard to figure out.