[Paul B]

[The Update]

Okay so I think I've got mantling disabled in the areas where Duke might Mantle.. hmmm don't have time to mantle myself lol. LeoD can you please confirm that it is fixed now for your mod? Also... I didn't realize how sloppy my texturing was until I used the HRP pack. So while I was at it I fixed some textures. Thank goodness for HRP it really allows for better accuracy aligning textures. I've also fixed that vent I was talking about which obviously no one used and added minor things which took all night and morning to do. Oh yea modified the damn benches as well as the text file. I can't wait for the day Gambini decides to use TROR that's my copyright bitch! LOL!

Thanks everyone for the feedback! It really does make a big difference and I've tried to listen to just about everyone. Duke HRP should look better with this new version. I gather most are probably using it.

So how about my personal opinion of this map? Well to be honest I still like the way Parkade plays and I find Parkade more fun to play as I find it more traditional to the style of Duke that I remember back in the day. While this map is definitely a step out of my comfort zone it was the bi product of David looking at my original map and subtly telling me to start over. HAHA Thanks David you were really careful on how you worded yourself as to not offend me. =) 4 Months later... definitely far from the best map out there but at least its a pleasent map. I have definitely applied more detail to this map then previous ones but I'm not sure more detail is always better for my liking. I'm still struggling with this and frame rate. I think my next map I will work on will have basic detail and it will be done in classic mode so that we can all enjoy a good old fashioned multiplayer with the old version of EDuke with stellar frames per second.

Game on!



Hello,

Before I get too carried away the first thing I want to say is thank you to Micky C, Methy & David B for spending a lot of time with me testing this map and helping me along the way. Without their help this map wouldn't be the same.

So for those who have been waiting patiently since my initial post I believe this map is now ready for you to play and have fun with. This map supports: Single Player/Death Match/Co-op play when Eduke permits. Only play this map using the Polymer Renderer.

Before playing the map please read the readme file first. It may help you with your objectives. This is the first time I have ever made a more linear style map.. However, the map will open up the further you go and you will have choices as to how you choose to fight your battles. I didn't make this map extremely difficult so I would recommend playing it on Come Get Some for the more experienced players who want to be challenged. The player difficulty settings have been set for all 3 difficulties.

Have fun and remember to come back here and provide feedback so that I can continue to improve on my mapping!

- Paul

Attached File(s)

•  BrooklynBridge.zip (182.29K)
  Number of downloads: 502

[Gambini]

Funny how all the sprites in your benchs match exactly sizes, positions, angles, flips, panning values and -in proportion- shading of the benchs I did in my It Lives map. And not without a warning, considering we discussed about that.

If you´ve been taught to read, these lines are directly copied from It_lives.txt:

Do not use this map as a base for another map.

Do not copy/paste this map or part of its content in another map.

Do not modify this map in any way. If you find a bug, just send me your report to gallo.luciano1@gmail.com

YOU WERE NOT ALLOWED, AND PREVIOUSLY WARNED TO NOT COPY STUFF OFF MY MAP. One thing is inspiration, another thing is copypasting.

I please request any administrator to remove this map from the forum until all the stuff ripped from my map is removed/replaced. This is copyright infringment.

I hope you get buttraped by a blue whale, Paul B!

[Paul B]

Gambini are you high? I recall you telling me this earlier.

Gambini, on 11 October 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

Chill out, if the spritework/construction/whatever improves the map, that means I´m gonna play a better map . Don´t take me so serious. I´m fine with people taking inspiration from my maps (in fact it´s a honor to inspire other people). But I feel the need of barking and growling everytime I realize a bold one.

I have also made mention in my text file that i used your benches for which i gave you credit. You were aware of this before i posted the map. Chill out i'm not changing default sprite tiles after you've already gave me your blessing. you didn't create those tiles you have no say over them and I can use them as I see fit. Thank you.

So i guess because you have a swinging doors in your it lives map I can't use a swinging door and the same tile because you've already coined that look. That really limits what I can do.. Actually I guess you can say this map is a total rip off from everyone elses map. Because i used the same editor to make the map with the same tile set. So I'm sorry to everyone whose made a map before me that I created a sector that was box shaped which resembled so many other box sectors. Damn... I guess i better just stop mapping then since every thing I do in mapster has already been done before because you've done it all.

[Gambini]

You said you based their design in my benchs. But you obviously just copypasted them. Thing that is clearly against the common sense and principies of any mapper and clearly stated in the TXT of my map.

Nothing changes if you put a few flattering words in your TXT. That´s just an excuse.

edit: and to your ninja edited post: Don´t try to be so dodgy, with "a shameless copy" I assumed it was an imitation, not a direct copy paste. I didn´t have access to the map back then and you said you inspired them in mines.

[Paul B]

Gambini, on 11 October 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

You said you based their design in my benchs. But you obviously just copypasted them.

Actually, i used those same benches 100 times over in the map. Not always did i copy them because it was sometimes just easier to recreate them to get the desired angle and height for the current sector. So you will see that all those benches are not exact copies of each other and are not positioned the same way twice. Plus we are talking about a piece of shit sprite object which really doesn't amount to anything its merely used as a filler and if there was a tile for a bench i would have used that instead.

A difference in my benches from your benches is that you used 1 sided sprites. I made them two sided and I did change the angles and their positions slightly but there are only so many combinations you can do with such a basic object. Infact for as simple of a sprite object it is i would be embarassed for making such a fuss over it. You keep complaining and i'll just edit my text file and take your name right out of there as it doesn't really need to be there.

[CruX]

All this arguing and downvoting over a fucking bench. Jesus...

[ck3D]

hurry up everybody, download this version of the map before a dogville gets pulled and the original edition of the level becomes a collector item !

[OpenMaw]

Gambini, on 11 October 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

I please request any administrator to remove this map from the forum until all the stuff ripped from my map is removed/replaced. This is copyright infringement.

Gambini. Dude. It's not copyright infringement. Not even close. You aren't a copyright holder for Duke Nukem 3D, or any of it's assets. Your map does not have any copyright protection. It's made with the blessings of 3D Realms, and that is it. A piece of geometry in the map is not protected. The only group who would have any direct say over this is 3D Realms.

Also it's pretty laughable for ANYONE in the Duke community to talk about copyright infringement when we have so many mods made, downloaded, and played featuring sounds, graphics, even map layouts borrowed, (stolen) from dozens of other games. Ya know, real, actual copyright infringement.


Now, with that said I will certainly agree that what you should be given is courtesy, certainly, and if the community decides that Paul B's a big ass douche bag for stealing the bench from your map, then that's simply a community decision. It is not because this is any kind of copyright infringement. There is no legal protection for this kind of thing. It's all on the honor system.

ck3D, on 12 October 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

hurry up everybody, download this version of the map before a dogville gets pulled and the original edition of the level becomes a collector item !

Thats not gonna happen. It's a bench. If Gambini had made a full on mod and Paul B had jacked code and resources without any prior knowledge, that'd be one thing. It's a BENCH. A very small piece of a level. This would be like someone losing their shit over one of the soda machines in Half-Life.


This whole thing got blown way out of proportion.

[Mikko]

The benches will add 5 to the score just because.

Anyways, will play this a bit later as it's still way too bright to play such a dark map.

[underTaker]

Just finished it.

It was indeed pretty cool, however i expected something better. It was laggy like hell, but that's not too bad. Design was pretty cool, however gameplay was bit linear and was boring me sometimes. The map took me about 20 minutes, and i found 3 secrets. I'd rate it with 8-8.5/10.

One thing annoyed me a little bit - the lobby where the battlelord was. When i jumped in to get the RPG and rockets it'd just blown away killing me instantly, that i didn't even know what happened.

Overally i liked it, but i could be little less linear.

[LeoD]

Commando Nukem, on 12 October 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Gambini. Dude. It's not copyright infringement. Not even close. You aren't a copyright holder for Duke Nukem 3D, or any of it's assets. Your map does not have any copyright protection. It's made with the blessings of 3D Realms, and that is it. A piece of geometry in the map is not protected. The only group who would have any direct say over this is 3D Realms.
[...]
Now, with that said I will certainly agree that what you should be given is courtesy, certainly, and if the community decides that Paul B's a big ass douche bag for stealing the bench from your map, then that's simply a community decision. It is not because this is any kind of copyright infringement. There is no legal protection for this kind of thing. It's all on the honor system.

It's not that easy. As far as 3DR are concerned, looking into the map template included in BUILDHELP.TXT clears up that copying/modifying stuff is OK for them:

* Construction *

Base                    : New level from scratch/Modified ExMx/xxx.MAP

However, following your argument it wouldn't be possible to create a copyright-protected executable using the free GCC for example. Gambini's It_Lives 1.05.map file does not contain any 3DR material and is not a derived work when made from scratch.
As far as legislation in my country is concerned, anything you publish which you have made on your own is copyrighted by default, without the necessity to provide any specific licensing terms.
But what comes into play here to protect things like BrooklynBridge.map is a term that translates to something like level of creation.
As far as I am concerned the level of creation of this type of bench does not constitute a copyright infringement when being re-used. Even if "Do not copy/paste this map or part of its content in another map" is intended to be interpreted otherwise by Gambini.

So IMO it should indeed be a community decision if BrooklynBridge has been designed in an acceptable manner or not.

Paul B, you should have read It_lives.txt and asked Gambini beforehand, though, to avoid this hassle.

Now starting to play...

EDIT: cd3D, what's a dogville in this context?

[Loke]

Just finished it, I liked it apart from the performance which deteriorated my enjoyment significantly which is a shame since it looks great. I liked this a lot more than Parkade as well; feels a lot more polished. I'd like to give it another try whenever Polymer is more stable because as of now I don't feel that I got everything out of it.

PS. Took about 28 minutes to finish tho' a lot of time was spent reloading!

[Paul B]

Dont review or play this map yet. I just realized i broke a door switch when deleting a touchplate. I want to fix this minor mistake. I am also considering changing my benches and removing Gambini's name completely off the credits of my map after I make a few subtle changes. I dont want his name associated with anything that i do anyway because in the end its not really worth it. I'd rather just take the credit for it. I didn't think he was such a whiny bitch.

[necroslut]

Wow, great map! Very cool looking and fun to play. One of the best I've played in quite a while.

[MetHy]

Best use of TROR i've seen so far. I also like how the start focuses on non classic weapons such as the shrinker and freezer.

Also I didn't have any performance issue and my computer isn't even that recent.

Really good map overall.

P.S: Gambini, you're making a fool of yourself

[Mikko]

Cool map, took me 27 minutes. I got terrible performance though. Was there a command to completely disable all Polymer lights?

If I were to fix one thing, it'd be those ugly 2d city horizons. At least get rid of the cloud parts as they're obviously separate from the background clouds.

[MetHy]

Mikko_Sandt, on 12 October 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Cool map, took me 27 minutes. I got terrible performance though. Was there a command to completely disable all Polymer lights?

If I were to fix one thing, it'd be those ugly 2d city horizons. At least get rid of the cloud parts as they're obviously separate from the background clouds.

I recommended that after betatesting and he said he didn't want to change it to avoid performance issues.

[Mikko]

I don't see how removing just the cloud parts would hurt performance in any way.

[Loke]

Mikko_Sandt, on 12 October 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

If I were to fix one thing, it'd be those ugly 2d city horizons. At least get rid of the cloud parts as they're obviously separate from the background clouds.

Yeah, I didn't really like those either. Cool idea (reminded me of dm_tempest from UT99) but it looks very strange up-close.

[Mikko]

Yeah James turned the city sky texture into nice 3d buildings in AMC TC, kinda like in UT (as far as I remember).

[High Treason]

I'm about to play this now.

@Mikki_Sandt; try typing "r_pr_lighting 0" into the console without quotes.

[underTaker]

Paul B, on 12 October 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

Dont review or play this map yet. I just realized i broke a door switch when deleting a touchplate. I want to fix this minor mistake. I am also considering changing my benches and removing Gambini's name completely off the credits of my map after I make a few subtle changes. I dont want his name associated with anything that i do anyway because in the end its not really worth it. I'd rather just take the credit for it. I didn't think he was such a whiny bitch.

I couldn't see any error like that you've mentioned o.O Everything was completely fine to me.

Also i think our Dukers community should be happy with eachother, and we shouldn't argue about some stupid benches or other shit that could be made in 5 minutes of work. Come on - it's just like patent wars... "don't use my stuff, or i [insert anything here]".
Just be friendly!

[LeoD]

...finished.
A very good map. Quite a step forward in terms of design compared to Parkade. It didn't feel too linear to me due to the shortcuts that were opened for a quick sneak back. However, I liked the gameplay of Parkade somewhat more, I guess because of the outside combat arena around the center building which has to be passed regularly to fight a new bunch of baddies.
BrooklynBridge is smoother in all aspects but I sometimes missed a little roughness around the edges.

Note for DukePlus users:
Turn off mantling or you won't be able to reach the rooftop with the yellow keylock, and a secret later on. (Paul B, since you'll release an updated version anyway - I think this can be disabled within the map itself, regardless of the user's configuration file.)

[Paul B]

LeoD, on 12 October 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

...finished.
A very good map. Quite a step forward in terms of design compared to Parkade. It didn't feel too linear to me due to the shortcuts that were opened for a quick sneak back. However, I liked the gameplay of Parkade somewhat more, I guess because of the outside combat arena around the center building which has to be passed regularly to fight a new bunch of baddies.
BrooklynBridge is smoother in all aspects but I sometimes missed a little roughness around the edges.

Note for DukePlus users:
Turn off mantling or you won't be able to reach the rooftop with the yellow keylock, and a secret later on. (Paul B, since you'll release an updated version anyway - I think this can be disabled within the map itself, regardless of the user's configuration file.)

I have never heard of that feature before. Would this be something you can help me with? Where would i look to turn on and off that feature and what does it pertain to?

[Mikko]

It's not a DukePlus map and mantling is a DP feature so it's not really your obligation to turn it off.

[LeoD]

Paul B, on 12 October 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

I have never heard of that feature before. Would this be something you can help me with? Where would i look to turn on and off that feature and what does it pertain to?

Sorry, I'm no mapper. IIRC it is set in the starting sector but I might be wrong. It's done in It Lives for example but I'm not sure if you'd still dare to have a look into it now.

I have attached some DukePlus Documentation which should be helpful.

Mikko_Sandt, on 12 October 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

It's not a DukePlus map and mantling is a DP feature so it's not really your obligation to turn it off.

Of course not. But if this incompatibility (and noob frustator) can easily be avoided, why not? Wasn't DukePlus made to enhance standard maps' gameplay in the first place and only afterwards provided additional features for ambitious mappers?

Attached File(s)

•  DukePlusHelp.zip (48.5K)
  Number of downloads: 195

[Paul B]

LeoD, on 12 October 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

Sorry, I'm no mapper. IIRC it is set in the starting sector but I might be wrong. It's done in It Lives for example but I'm not sure if you'd still dare to have a look into it now.
NoMantle.jpg
I have attached some DukePlus Documentation which should be helpful.

Of course not. But if this incompatibility (and noob frustator) can easily be avoided, why not? Wasn't DukePlus made to enhance standard maps' gameplay in the first place and only afterwards provided additional features for ambitious mappers?

Okay I read the readme file on it and I know how it works. Since you mentioned the bug I will fix it as per your request under one condition. After I make the change you test it for me to tell me if it works better.

[LeoD]

Paul B, on 12 October 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Okay I read the readme file on it and I know how it works. Since you mentioned the bug I will fix it as per your request under one condition. After I make the change you test it for me to tell me if it works better.

Of course.
Think positive: it's not fixing a bug but an improvement.

[DNSkill]

Going to check this out soon, with a Gambini bench or not.

[MetHy]

LeoD, on 12 October 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

EDIT: cd3D, what's a dogville in this context?

http://www.amcwebfor...hp?topic=3808.0

Enjoy.

Jesus christ that was more than EIGHT years ago!

Edit : actually that wasn't the thread i was looking for but whatever; there was one involving pascal rouaud more directly