[Mark]

I played a little bit so far. I was suprised when I saw a flaming skull, skeletons and medival knights in the map. I accidently installed the map into the folder where I was experimenting with replacing original enemies with other ones. Duh.

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[ck3D]

LeoD, on 12 October 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

EDIT: cd3D, what's a dogville in this context?

taivo maaripuu released a map called dogville many moons ago that was clearly over the top in terms of roch influences, with dozens of instances of sector, texture and sprite combination recreation or copy-pasting. pascal rouaud eventually sent a few angry emails, asked everyone with duke-related reviewing sites to remove it from their server, and told taivo that because of his behavior he was giving up on mapping altogether (although in the eyes of many that sounded more like an excuse to abandon roch 9 if anything). besides the argument the map was actually really good too, taivo quickly released a modified version without the blatant rip-offs but still the map fell through, remained absent on most websites for a while and only got a little popular again many years later when that modified version eventually got shared on forums by people who still had it on their hard drive after all this time. it was a ridiculous case really and the typical exemple of what happens when someone's ego gets in the way of other people's work

Commando Nukem, on 12 October 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Thats not gonna happen. It's a bench. If Gambini had made a full on mod and Paul B had jacked code and resources without any prior knowledge, that'd be one thing. It's a BENCH. A very small piece of a level. This would be like someone losing their shit over one of the soda machines in Half-Life.

well no shit, that was the joke. i seriously hope noone on earth actually devotes some of their time to genuinely collecting each revision for each duke 3D user map in 2012

[Mblackwell]

Pretty sure everything is "stolen" from people like C3P0, Salacius Crumb, Pascal Rouaud, and Billy Boy (among others) anyway. I wouldn't worry about it. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[MetHy]

Mblackwell, on 12 October 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

Pretty sure everything is "stolen" from people like C3P0, Salacius Crumb, Pascal Rouaud, and Billy Boy (among others) anyway. I wouldn't worry about it. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Maybe to some extent, but back then the situation was ridiculous. Rouaud claimed that HE invented the use of sprites to make 3D objects and used Merljin's chairs in Red3 as an example to claim how big of an influence, even though 3D sprite objects have existed in usermaps since 1996 and even in the original game (think the bridge at the end of E1L1).

Anyway like MRCK said the comparaison with this map and Dogville is just a joke. It's true that Dogville used a lot of stuff from the Roch maps, and Rouaud got mad because it wasn't the first time (think Taivo's Spiegul contest map). In this case Gambini is making a fool of himself because of one bench.

[LeoD]

ck3D, on 12 October 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

taivo maaripuu released a map called dogville many moons ago

I should have searched my HD then instead of Wikipedia and my online dictionary.

ck3D, on 12 October 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

taivo quickly released a modified version without the blatant rip-offs but still the map fell through,

Hm, the only one I can find has a map file date from 2004-08-11 which I suppose to be the original release.

[Merlijn]

MetHy, on 12 October 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

Maybe to some extent, but back then the situation was ridiculous. Rouaud claimed that HE invented the use of sprites to make 3D objects and used Merljin's chairs in Red3 as an example to claim how big of an influence, even though 3D sprite objects have existed in usermaps since 1996 and even in the original game (think the bridge at the end of E1L1).

Anyway like MRCK said the comparaison with this map and Dogville is just a joke. It's true that Dogville used a lot of stuff from the Roch maps, and Rouaud got mad because it wasn't the first time (think Taivo's Spiegul contest map). In this case Gambini is making a fool of himself because of one bench.

One of the problems with Tiavo was the lack of proper credits: it's ok to be inspired by other peoples work, but he didn't even admit it although it was blatantly obvious. That's what really pissed people off back then. I could also add that 'being inspired by' and 'blatant rip-off' are not the same thing, but that's another discussion.

Anyway, the bench thing really seems really blown out of proportion, sorry Gambini. Gonna play the map ASAP.

[ck3D]

LeoD, on 13 October 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

I should have searched my HD then instead of Wikipedia and my online dictionary.

Hm, the only one I can find has a map file date from 2004-08-11 which I suppose to be the original release.

i think the only version that is still around is the modified version, i might have the original somewhere on one of my old hard drives, but i am not even sure. i think i was the one who brought the map back after a while by posting it on dn-r, but i am not even sure anymore, maybe it was someone else. some rooms and spriteworks in the original version were completely similar to some locations in the roch series. in the modified version taivo tweaked a few textures so that it wouldn't be the exact same and he would be able to release it, but if i remember correctly pascal said it wasn't enough and that taivo should really just keep the map strictly to himself unless he rebuilt everything from scratch (how does one go about just thinking up such a request anyway ?). mikko removed the link to the review on msdn for a while, but for many years after the event the page was still there and one could still access it if they had the url.

[LeoD]

Paul B, on 11 October 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Okay so I think I've got mantling disabled in the areas where Duke might Mantle.. hmmm don't have time to mantle myself lol. LeoD can you please confirm that it is fixed now for your mod?

DukePlus is not my mod, it is made by Trooper Dan aka DeeperThought. I'm just the biggest remaining fan and propagator. Unfortunately your no-mantling fix does not work. Instead of urging you to put too much time into this I'd hereby like to ask the DukePlus-experienced mappers to have a look into it.

(Besides updating the download link you should have better put your text update at the bottom or better into a new post to avoid irritation for first-time visitors of the thread.)

Paul B, on 11 October 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Also... I didn't realize how sloppy my texturing was until I used the HRP pack. So while I was at it I fixed some textures. Thank goodness for HRP it really allows for better accuracy aligning textures.

HRP rulz!

Paul B, on 11 October 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

I can't wait for the day Gambini decides to use TROR that's my copyright bitch! LOL!

Please stop beating dead horses. He has a point even if we don't agree.

Paul B, on 11 October 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

I'm still struggling with this and frame rate. I think my next map I will work on will have basic detail and it will be done in classic mode so that we can all enjoy a good old fashioned multiplayer with the old version of EDuke with stellar frames per second.

There's only two frame rates: Enough and not enough.

[Forge]

ck3D, on 13 October 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

i think the only version that is still around is the modified version, i might have the original somewhere on one of my old hard drives, but i am not even sure. i think i was the one who brought the map back after a while by posting it on dn-r, but i am not even sure anymore, maybe it was someone else. some rooms and spriteworks in the original version were completely similar to some locations in the roch series. in the modified version taivo tweaked a few textures so that it wouldn't be the exact same......

I lost the original version to a hard drive crash, but wasn't one of the main differences also having to do with some car (that was removed)? I don't remember properly; Mikko would know.

IIRC we were discussing mappers or some such, and you brought up Taivo and dogville, so I knocked out a review, then double "dog" dared the admin at DN-R to upload it.


(patiently waiting for the "updated" version as requested)

[rasmus thorup]

I think i need a newer version of eduke. Could someone give me that link. For some reason, the link on www.eduke32.com isn't the latest version. The version i have is 5.1.285.

[LeoD]

rasmus thorup, on 13 October 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

I think i need a newer version of eduke. Could someone give me that link. For some reason, the link on www.eduke32.com isn't the latest version.

That is the latest version (r3068). Maybe updated by TX just a couple of minutes ago.
(However, http://dukeworld.duk...e32_current.zip is from 2011-03-19 and desperately needs an update)

rasmus thorup, on 13 October 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

The version i have is 5.1.285.

That's your HRP's version number.

[Gambini]

Ok. I won´t hijack this thread with my "whining" but there are a few things that shouldn´t remain unanswered.

Commando Nukem, on 12 October 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Also it's pretty laughable for ANYONE in the Duke community to talk about copyright infringement when we have so many mods made, downloaded, and played featuring sounds, graphics, even map layouts borrowed, (stolen) from dozens of other games. Ya know, real, actual copyright infringement.

It will be laughtable the day you see me using stuff made by somebdy´s else without their permission. It may not be copyrighted, but it´s still my intelectual property.

Paul B, on 12 October 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

I am also considering changing my benches and removing Gambini's name completely off the credits of my map after I make a few subtle changes. I dont want his name associated with anything that i do anyway because in the end its not really worth it. I'd rather just take the credit for it. I didn't think he was such a whiny bitch.

I may be a whiny bitch, but you are a worthless prick. You could have just made them yourself, even if they were highly inspired in the ones I did. You knew this was going to piss me off, yet you decided to carry on. Also in the updated map the benches are still the same, you just added a sprite behind them. You can shove your credits up your ass. Thanking someone for something they didn´t agree is like stealing something off a room and leaving a "thank you" note.

You can say now that I´m a bitch and all that, but you were the one licking my balls sack some posts ago.

MetHy, on 12 October 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

P.S: Gambini, you're making a fool of yourself

You think so? I didn´t spent 1000+ hours along three years designing that map, just to be used by an asshole as a prefabs resource. I´m in all my right here. I´m sure everybody that gave me their back would be pleased if he rips stuff from their maps. But I´m not.

Also doesn´t matter how small the stuff he ripped is. It´s his attitude of not aknowledging the fact and his ironical answers towards my concern (prior and post release) which aggravate it.

[Mikko]

All patents should be abolished. (This coming from someone who supports copyrights!)

Anyways, a review is available here: http://msdn.duke4.net/hotbrooklyn.php

[rasmus thorup]

LeoD, on 13 October 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

That is the latest version (r3068). Maybe updated by TX just a couple of minutes ago.
(However, http://dukeworld.duk...e32_current.zip is from 2011-03-19 and desperately needs an update)

That's your HRP's version number.

edit:I found it!

And it still bugs up the game. Do i need something else beside the latest eduke? I got it from here http://dukeworld.duk.../20121013-3068/

[underTaker]

Mikko_Sandt, on 13 October 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

All patents should be abolished. (This coming from someone who supports copyrights!)

Anyways, a review is available here: http://msdn.duke4.net/hotbrooklyn.php

Here, have my plus, sir.

[t800]

I am totally lost. It is nice looking map, shame that I cant finish it. Last things that I manage to acheive is to collect yellow keycard from bridge, kill battlelord, change sign to U.S. flag and jump on roofs from pillars of bridge but after that I am lost and confused about where to go.
EDIT: I wouldnt expect that admitting that I am lost and asking for help is considered to be insult. Whatever. Sometimes I really dont understand what goes trough your minds, guys.

[underTaker]

t800, on 13 October 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

I am totally lost. It is nice looking map, shame that I cant finish it. Last things that I manage to acheive is to collect yellow keycard from bridge, kill battlelord, change sign to U.S. flag and jump on roofs from pillars of bridge but after that I am lost and confused about where to go.
EDIT: I wouldnt expect that admitting that I am lost and asking for help is considered to be insult. Whatever. Sometimes I really dont understand what goes trough your minds, guys.

If you are according to minus you've just got, i'm pretty confused as well, since i got lost on the map as well. Even couple times. I'd help you but i can't really remember the map just now. It was little bit confusing, in that part, as i remember.

[Loke]

t800, on 13 October 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

I am totally lost. It is nice looking map, shame that I cant finish it. Last things that I manage to acheive is to collect yellow keycard from bridge, kill battlelord, change sign to U.S. flag and jump on roofs from pillars of bridge but after that I am lost and confused about where to go.

Use the bridge pillars to jump up on the roof on the building near the bridge entrance. Once up there use the yellow key card you just picked up to activate the yellow switch.

[t800]

OK, I finally found that goddamn hidden switch! It is at back of those electric generators or whatever they are. How could I not notice it before? Maybe I just considered it to be part of scenery. Anyway thanks for help.

[LeoD]

rasmus thorup, on 13 October 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

And it still bugs up the game. Do i need something else beside the latest eduke?

Earlier this year I made a help pack for someone else which might be useful in your case, too.
Download and start with:
eduke32 -noautoload -gzzz_UniversalHelpPack.zip
Don't skip the intro.

[Paul B]

Mikko_Sandt, on 13 October 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

All patents should be abolished. (This coming from someone who supports copyrights!)

Anyways, a review is available here: http://msdn.duke4.net/hotbrooklyn.php

Thanks Mikko for the review and the upload. I just wish that damn Mantle option was working. Do you know anything about this?

[Paul B]

I am just curious to know if any one has taken out the mini boss on the bridge at the starting position with the RPG? You can spawn the RPG from the starting position. (you don't have to leave the pier).

[Mikko]

Paul B, on 13 October 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

I just wish that damn Mantle option was working. Do you know anything about this?

I don't play usermaps with DukePlus unless the map was specifically designed for it. I did once design a DukePlus map however and I think I successfully disabled mantling but obviously I cannot recall how it was done. DP came with instructions on DP effects so check it out if you really think it's worth the time. If I were you I'd just forgetaboutit. The last thing I'd want to do is disable mantling for a map that was never designed for DP in the first place.

[Gambini]

Put a M sprite (tile 2952) hidden somewhere in the map with these values: lotag 1, extra 0 (which is accessed pressing F8).

[Paul B]

Gambini, on 13 October 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Put a M sprite (tile 2952) hidden somewhere in the map with these values: lotag 1, extra 0 (which is accessed pressing F8).

Wow! The last person i'd expect to help me. Hi Gambini that's exactly what I did but it doesn't appear to have worked. I did read the manual but it was vague and didn't mention anything about disabling the feature. I figured the Hitag 0 would have disabled the mantling but it appears it didn't work. Maybe I accidentally added a palette to the M sprite. I'll double check. I appreciate your help. Thank you!

Okay for the record I thought the EXTRA Value was the Hitag value. I had no idea there was a separate attribute only accessible in 2D mode by using the F8 Key on the sprite.

I have located that 'EXTRA' value which was defaulted to -1 and changed it to 0. I believe this was what was needed to make it function. I have placed several of these sprite M tiles in sectors duke shouldnt' be doing anything fancy. Hopefully this smooths out the game play for the Duke Plus fans.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. LeoD can you please confirm this functions for you now?

Attached File(s)

•  BrooklynBridge.zip (182.29K)
  Number of downloads: 206

[Micky C]

From Mikko's review:

Quote

Paul has once again demonstrated the power of the TROR feature

Ouch, I suddenly feel all my work on Parkade get swept under the rug

At this stage Paul is a fully fledged and experienced TROR mapper and has an extensive understanding of the feature, however going back to Parkade I must have made about 85% of the TROR, and I definitely made all the complicated stuff. I even think Paul reverse-engineered some of my methods of construction of some architectural objects from Parkade (don't worry Paul, I won't pull a Gambini about it ).

However don't let this take the light off Paul's TROR in Brooklyn Bridge; the use of TROR is definitely a lot more consistent, practical and polished than in Parkade. There's also some sloped platforms (the vents in the arcade) which aren't in any released maps as far as I can tell, so kudos to Paul for that (as for unreleased maps... muahahaha ). My favourite cases of Paul incorporating TROR into the layout included jumping into a vent and being able to crawl over grates, which is nothing new, except you couldn't break anything which is a new and fantastic thing in vanilla mapping, then being able to work your way down all those platforms to the floor of the arcade room. The other place is that wooden room where you can see all the floors at once though the middle open area. It's not particularly new or complicated but damn it was executed brilliantly.

[Paul B]

Micky C, on 13 October 2012 - 01:56 PM, said:

I even think Paul reverse-engineered some of my methods of construction of some architectural objects from Parkade (don't worry Paul, I won't pull a Gambini about it

Micky this isn't true at all. I could never reverse engineer your work because I never understood how you got to the final product. Your work demonstrated what was possible with TROR. By seeign your concepts and design I fought with TROR until I finally understood how I could use it practically.

Honestly, when I read the initial documentation with TROR I was so lost. What really helped me progress with TROR was Helixhorneds documentation afterwards a tutorial more or less that showed me how I could break a TROR sector and re-join it. It was only after understanding that concept in conjunction with the F3 view could I begin to appreciate TROR properly. The one thing though I did try and mimic of yours was the TROR desks as you have seen in this map. But I have not stolen any of your implementations with TROR. But I have admired your work and vision because without your examples I don't think I would have known its capabilities.

I have also introduced new method in this map with TROR. For example how to get the red keycard and have it get pushed along a conveyor belt after activating it via a switch when a conveyor belt can't start in the stopped state TROR makes this possible using a bridge effect in an expanded sector.. Typically a conveyor belt is always moving and can only be stopped not started to produce an effect.

[Micky C]

Yeah I was thinking about the 3D desks when I said that. Still, you've done a great job with the map and I can tell you put a lot of work into it. I was blown away by how you were able to implement TROR in new and original circumstances. I'll add this as another example map to the wiki article on TROR that people can look at when you think you've submitted a final version.

Edit: Don't worry to much about my previous post, I wrote it in the heat of the moment after reading Mikko's review and took that line to mean something along the lines of "Parkade is Pauls map and he built most of the stuff in it" but I understand now I overreacted and it doesn't really mean much.

[LeoD]

Paul B, on 13 October 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

LeoD can you please confirm this functions for you now?

It works! Thank you, man.

EDIT: The silently updated version works, too. (Bad boy)

[Paul B]

LeoD, on 13 October 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

It works! Thank you, man.

EDIT: The silently updated version works, too. (Bad boy)

Yea well Trooper Dan got back to me and explained that I only need that sprite in the map once. I thought I needed to put it in every sector there was a wall that duke would want to grab. So I removed the extra's when they didn't need to be there and in the process I screwed something up so I had to adjust it. But I'm glad it works now. I appreciate your feedback. I just like to make a map that works for everyone. I hate knowing that there's some stupid quirk which is screwing up the experience.

I've been silently updating this map all day hoping that I can come up with some benches that will relieve some tension between Gambini and myself. I'm sorry for the frustration this has all caused.