[SolidSnake27]

It's been saddening me so much that Powerslave/Exhumed was such an underrated game, I thought about a few things and I would like to hear about your opinion/advices on them.

1. Legal issues
Lobotomy Software doesn't exist anymore and I don't know about Playmate Interactive Entertainment. The only thing I know is BGM Entertainment (the european publisher) has been acquired by Take Two Interactive. Are they really the only right holder of the game to this day ?
To sum it up: who could make it salable again on sites like GOG.com ?

2. Source code ?
Yeah, I'm being a bit too much optimistic there. While Monolith remained a wealthy company, I can't tell the same for Lobotomy Software. So in your opinion, is the source code lost forever ?

3. An EDuke32 remake ?
Considering the game's quality was a bit neglected (horrible mouse support that even BMouse can't fix up, failed multiplayer support, performance issues, slow strafing) and that the game seems like it's been designed to cover up these issues, wouldn't it be too easy if players were offered proper keyboard+mouse movements and mouse look ?

[DNSkill]

1. Not sure about this.

2. Maybe, maybe not. Somebody from the development team may still have the source locked up, maybe they even have the source for the PSX/Saturn version (these were better in my opinion anyways). Maybe Joe from 3DR still has all the old pre-release stuff from when they owned the game rights, but they'd probably not release it. To get it on GoG.com, contact the site itself, they'd have a better chance finding out how to get it to their site than any of us.

3. I had at one point thought about making a complete remake. The reason is.. Powerslave ran on a weaker version of BUILD, and it's a shame because the version after it allowed pyramid like structures. I always visioned making sand stroms and stuff. Porting it directly to eDuke32 (provided source code got released), would probably require many changes (many might want a save game feature instead of having to use those bug things that save your game when you walk over them). The controls could have a setup menu, and maybe there could be the feature of having MIDI or the CD soundtrack, because there was MIDI music, and a lot of it was on the beta version of the game. Porting the console versions would probably not work out, there would need to be a new engine to run those.

[Hendricks266]

SolidSnake27, on 30 September 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

So in your opinion, is the source code lost forever ?

If you can look up the credits and get in contact with the original programmer then they may be willing to leak it for you.

gerolf, on 30 September 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

maybe there could be the feature of having MIDI or the CD soundtrack, because there was MIDI music, and a lot of it was on the beta version of the game.

There were only two MIDI files and they are both identical.

[SolidSnake27]

gerolf, on 30 September 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

To get it on GoG.com, contact the site itself, they'd have a better chance finding out how to get it to their site than any of us.

I'll look into that. I guess I'll have to provide them names I guess since all of the devs split up.

gerolf, on 30 September 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

I had at one point thought about making a complete remake. The reason is.. Powerslave ran on a weaker version of BUILD, and it's a shame because the version after it allowed pyramid like structures. I always visioned making sand stroms and stuff.

Geez, this is making me dream.

gerolf, on 30 September 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

Porting it directly to eDuke32 (provided source code got released), would probably require many changes (many might want a save game feature instead of having to use those bug things that save your game when you walk over them).

The only important change I'm thinking of is the pushable sector feature. For the save game feature, I guess it'll be more difficult removing than leaving it.

gerolf, on 30 September 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

The controls could have a setup menu, and maybe there could be the feature of having MIDI or the CD soundtrack, because there was MIDI music, and a lot of it was on the beta version of the game. Porting the console versions would probably not work out, there would need to be a new engine to run those.

It was in the beta only then. In the final product, no CD means no soundtrack.

Hendricks266, on 30 September 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

If you can look up the credits and get in contact with the original programmer then they may be willing to leak it for you.

This reminds me of a memorable prank: a friend of mine and myself had a dream where we would ask a Monolith dev kindly to give us the Blood source code and he would do it without any question. He told me once he sent a mail to Monolith about the source code so I sent him a fake mail under an address that looked like Monolith's. I'll remember forever when he yelled "I RECIEVED A MAIL FROM THEM !! " only to read in it "Thank you Ken, but the source code is in another company.". He then understood the joke and shouted at me. Priceless.
Anyway, since the company doesn't exist anymore and that Take Two may not be aware of having any right over this long forgotten title, it may be worth trying.


Btw, Kaiser from Doom 64 EX said he might do a port for Powerslave/Exhumed in the future.

[necroslut]

Powerslave is really an underrated game. I love the look and feel of the game, the platforming, and IMO the checkpoint system makes it's more exciting and challenging. Only problem is it tends to crash occasionaly in DosBox
I can't answer any of your questions though, so my post is completely useless. But if it were to appear on GoG I'd buy it.

[SolidSnake27]

necroslut, on 30 September 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Only problem is it tends to crash occasionaly in DosBox

It runs perfectly here (except multiplayer mode which runs at something like 15 fps for some reason). I wrote a little launcher if you have the CD (legal stuff again) but I have to rewrite the installer part.

necroslut, on 30 September 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I can't answer any of your questions though, so my post is completely useless.

Nah, just throw your two cents. I usually never post in here but it's always a pleasure to read you guys' opinions about old games.

necroslut, on 30 September 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

But if it were to appear on GoG I'd buy it.

I don't know if I would either because I already have Exhumed in a jewelcase with its manual and it looks unused. I also made a CD image out of it to have its soundtrack without having to insert the CD and scratching it over the time.

[Loke]

I didn't really like the PC version at all. The PSX/Saturn version was by far the best one especially in terms of its non-linear system in which you could revisit previously completed maps and gain access to new areas that were otherwise inaccessible due to lacking a specific ability. Very underrated game imo. Had some really good music as well (again, speaking for the console versions).

[SolidSnake27]

Loke, on 01 October 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

I didn't really like the PC version at all. The PSX/Saturn version was by far the best one especially in terms of its non-linear system in which you could revisit previously completed maps and gain access to new areas that were otherwise inaccessible due to lacking a specific ability. Very underrated game imo. Had some really good music as well (again, speaking for the console versions).

Indeed I liked the final boss music. It's a shame I couldn't get my hands on a physical copy of this game on PSX. And yes it seems like the whole series is underrated, except maybe the Saturn version because it was an epic win to write a decent 3D game on this retarded machine but since it was as expensive as a PS3 no one really cared much about this.

Btw, I started searching for the main programmers (Kurt Pfeifer and John Yuill) and so far I found an african tennis player, a doctor and an actor. But rest assured, according to giantbomb.com, both of them are persons (derp, that's all this stupid database could tell me).
I also found a Kurt Pfeifer on Google+ who works for PopCap Games. I hope it's the good one. There's a profile with the same name on Linked In but I don't know if it's the same person because the profile picture on G+ shows someone disguised as a piece of bacon. This is gonna be exciting... Also if anyone could tell me where they work now and even some way to contact them, this would greatly help me.

[necroslut]

I got the Saturn version too, and while it looks great I prefer the gameplay and structure of the PC version. I seem to be the only one, though.

SolidSnake27, on 01 October 2012 - 01:57 AM, said:

It runs perfectly here (except multiplayer mode which runs at something like 15 fps for some reason). I wrote a little launcher if you have the CD (legal stuff again) but I have to rewrite the installer part.

I haven't actually tried it in DosBox since I got a new computer, the old one was pretty old (ten years), I should probably not blame DosBox.

[MrFlibble]

Loke, on 01 October 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

Had some really good music as well (again, speaking for the console versions).

Hmm, isn't the music actually the same (or at least, very similar) in the PC version?

[Loke]

Don't remember honestly. Only thing I do sorta remember is that the training level/first level had the Set boss music but apart from that I'm not entirely sure.

[Martin]

The PC version wasn't anywhere near as good as the console releases, I'm afraid. Buy it for PSone or Saturn and be done with it. I think I posted this before somewhere, but this is a nice interview with ex-Lobotomy Software lead programmer Ezra Dreisbach. He goes into some details about Exhumed, plus the Quake and Duke 3D ports for Saturn (and even a little bit on PSone vs Saturn!).

[MrFlibble]

Martin, on 07 November 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

I think I posted this before somewhere, but this is a nice interview with ex-Lobotomy Software lead programmer Ezra Dreisbach. He goes into some details about Exhumed, plus the Quake and Duke 3D ports for Saturn (and even a little bit on PSone vs Saturn!).

Nice, thanks for the link!

[Martin]

If you choose not to get the PC version (which would be wise), I'd say for the majority of people - the PSone version is the way to go. Most people have a PSone or PS2 lying around, and of course you can play it on PS3 if you have one as well. Not many people have a Saturn about the house. If you do, maybe get it for Saturn? Not that it makes much difference, but it's one of the only good 3D games on the platform. If you're in the enviable position of having a Sega Saturn and one of the three PlayStations (like me /> ), then this video might help you decide.



The uploader of that video had this to say..

Quote

therealbluedragon said:

Lobotomy Software were one of few development teams able to achieve consistently excellent results with the Saturn hardware as they were also responsible for the exceptional Saturn ports of Quake & Duke Nukem 3D.

As far as I can tell both games run very smoothly but feature lots of minor design differences. Such as the first enemy type you encounter in the game (PS1 has blue Scorpions & Sat has red Spiders), Item, key & weapon locations & countless geometry inconsistencies.

I'd say get it for Saturn just for the cool factor of having it on Saturn.

[Martin]

Sorry for the necropost, but I figured some here may be interested in this, and it doesn't deserve a new thread.

[Loke]

Nice watch, thanks for posting. Really didn't know they were so passionate and hardworking, makes me even more sad that they went under so early.

[Tetsuo]

It'd be great to see a TC of the console version of Exhumed/Powerslave with Polymer. I see there was at least one such project for ZDOOM but it has been abandoned.

I never played the console version as by that time I had already switched to PC gaming exclusively and didn't look back at console gaming.

[Lunick]

That video was awesome!

[thatguy]

Tetsuo, on 07 January 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

It'd be great to see a TC of the console version of Exhumed/Powerslave with Polymer. I see there was at least one such project for ZDOOM but it has been abandoned.

I never played the console version as by that time I had already switched to PC gaming exclusively and didn't look back at console gaming.

I absolutely loved the PSX version of the game. It is like a totally different game. Sort of like a mix between Quake and Zelda Ocarina of Time (Character Powerups). Its such a unique experience. I'd love to work on a port, but i'm just way to busy. Honestly, I'd prefer someone to port the game with Quake over Duke just because they are the exact same engine...but hey, its a lot more fun treading new territory.

[LAW]

Yeah, I've been thinking about a port OR a sequel. I have some historical maps in mind, but it would be a titanic task for one person.

This game is in my "all the time top ten" (or just behind) along with Disruptor.

Even though I have the original CD, the crash or two can happen in Dosbox. When it happens in Karnak level then it is very sad, because unlike console Karnak, the PC one is really hard.

Oh, and I can't believe that back in those times, there was nobody willing to publish Quake on PSX. Shite...

[Tetsuo]

I'm not sure I'd entirely agree that their engine was exactly like the Quake engine seeing how different their port was from the PC version. Also eduke32 currently has caught up and surpassed their engine as far as I'm concerned especially now that it has TROR & stuff like more real time lighting and normal maps, etc.

[thatguy]

Tetsuo, on 21 January 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

I'm not sure I'd entirely agree that their engine was exactly like the Quake engine seeing how different their port was from the PC version. Also eduke32 currently has caught up and surpassed their engine as far as I'm concerned especially now that it has TROR & stuff like more real time lighting and normal maps, etc.

I think you're missing the point. Quake is the perfect engine to make a direct/perfect port of the game. Sad to say, design wise Eduke32 wouldn't capture the essence of the SlaveDriver version. Eduke has surpassed, doesn't mean its a logical choice.

Also if you're gambling on the idea that EDUKE has surpassed Quake, then you are severly mistaken. Have you not used the Quake port? Yeah, surpassed Eduke32 in every way. Yet again, its not about the extra features. Its about the compatibility of features. Quake utilizes light baking which EDuke will never be able to capture. In essense, you are porting the pc version of Exhumed and not the SlaveDriver version.

[MrFlibble]

s.b.Newsom, on 22 January 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

In essense, you are porting the pc version of Exhumed and not the SlaveDriver version.

Well, in fact EDuke does have an edge over the PC version of Powerslave because the original Powerslave is based on a rather early version of Build which doesn't allow for sloped surfaces, and some other features as well IIRC.

[Person of Color]

I've had this game on the top of my retro "must play" list for a long time.

Next week, I'm going to install my Saturn modchip and burn this sucker. I had a modded Saturn but I killed it.

Oh, and you guys are wrong - There are TONS of great 3D games on the Saturn, and it produces better graphics than the PS1 if programmed correctly.

/segafanboy

[thatguy]

MrFlibble, on 23 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Well, in fact EDuke does have an edge over the PC version of Powerslave because the original Powerslave is based on a rather early version of Build which doesn't allow for sloped surfaces, and some other features as well IIRC.

The point is, why half as it if you're trying to port/remake the SlaveDriver version. I understand remaking the PC version on eDuke. Its a perfect match and then some. But if you look at the discussion, we are talking about the SlaveDriver/PSX version of the game which pc gamers never got a chance to play...which in my opinion was vastly superior to the Build version....although with a bit of coding, the Build version could of been great for its time.

In the end, I love both games as they are vastly different and provide a different experience for the same subject. Though if I had to pick one for a remake, i'd pick the SlaveDriver version.

486DX2, on 23 January 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

I've had this game on the top of my retro "must play" list for a long time.

Next week, I'm going to install my Saturn modchip and burn this sucker. I had a modded Saturn but I killed it.

Oh, and you guys are wrong - There are TONS of great 3D games on the Saturn, and it produces better graphics than the PS1 if programmed correctly.

/segafanboy

</SarcasmSegaFanboy?Not?> The emulation of the PS1 version on the PC was vastly superior in terms of enhancements and resolution....just not use to the controls. Man, it was pure crap playing FPS games back in the day on a controller. I'm so happy console FPS controls evolved.

[Tetsuo]

Superior to Build back then... not so much now or for all time. What does it have that eduke32 lacks especially now that it has TROR?

Baked lightmaps? Even Quake is moving away from those with engines such as Darkplaces with their real time lighting additions. That being said I'm sure darkplaces for example could make a great Exhumed port. I'm sure a skilled eduke32 modder could do an awesome job as well. But we're not talking Crysis here with stuff that's well beyond the scope of eduke32... we're talking about 1996 level stuff. Superiority to the PC version back then aside. Even eduke32 has gone well past 1996 level by now.

Basically it seems you are saying even with polymer & TROR eduke32 can't hope to match a Quake 1 level engine from 1996.

[Hendricks266]

Why would you even want baked lightmaps anyway? Static lighting (Source engine, etc.) is going out of style; we're returning to BUILD-like dynamic lighting.

[Person of Color]

s.b.Newsom, on 24 January 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

</SarcasmSegaFanboy?Not?> The emulation of the PS1 version on the PC was vastly superior in terms of enhancements and resolution....just not use to the controls. Man, it was pure crap playing FPS games back in the day on a controller. I'm so happy console FPS controls evolved.

The Saturn has an analog pad, and the layout is similar to DC/XBox. If you map BCYZ to movement, analog stick to aim, and triggers to fire, it's fine. It's the same reason I've always used the C buttons to move in Goldeneye. It's like ghetto WASD.

[thatguy]

I'm not going to argue with people who don't understand lightmapping. I guess its hard for all of you to believe every game still uses lightmapping, even unreal engine 4.

Lightmapping provides natural lighting without bleeding edge hardware and provides excellent lighting without no additional computation. I find it insulting any of you are saying Lightmapping is a fad or pure crap. You know whats pure crap? Eduke. Why? Because it still uses the same ol edge with a few extra features. Yeah, is that insulting? Of course, but not as insulting as something that has stayed with gaming and will never leave until all computers can simulate a holodeck in your living room.

Hendricks266, on 24 January 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Why would you even want baked lightmaps anyway? Static lighting (Source engine, etc.) is going out of style; we're returning to BUILD-like dynamic lighting.

What? The ugliest lighting known to gaming? Doom 3? Fear? Yeah, don't compare todays lighting to build. Build never was dynamic. Unless you are talking about Polymer, which isn't saying gmaing is going back to Build Like lighting. Don't fool yourself with misuse of words.

Imagine gaming had changed and abandoned lightmapping when Doom 3 came out. "Hey guys, we got new lighting tech, abandon all lightmapping, this system is DYNAMIC". Queue a decade of ugliest games imaginable until tech finally makes it usable for top of the line computers.

[Tetsuo]

Nobody said lightmapping is pure crap or a fad. Especially not pure crap.... that's an assumption.

What I said was that they're transitioning away from it with some form of dynamic lighting. It served its purpose to help conserve resources while delivering some great looking environments. You can't tar all those engines with the same brush because they use dynamic\static lighting to different degrees and are becoming more dynamic all the time. UE4 is purely static baked in lighting? I highly doubt that. We will have static lighting until the end of time? Not so sure about that either. In fact they are saying there's no faking, no baking there..

Quote

This Unreal Engine 4 demo is something else. The most basic principles it is based upon strongly suggest that games based on this platform simply couldn't be achieved on current gen hardware without fundamental compromise. In the here and now, most games mostly use a mixture of static lighting - pre-calculated and "baked" into the environments - and dynamic light sources. The global illumination system employed by UE4 is all real-time, all the time: no faking, no baking - and the level of fidelity in the simulation is an obvious step beyond what is possible on existing console hardware.

Quote

"There's no static lighting at all in this demonstration. We've actually removed the ability to bake down lightmaps," reveals Alan Willard, senior technical artist at Epic Games.

Now if you want to take offense to that fine.. but I wasn't being offensive nor using descriptions like crappy or fad in my original reply. I even admitted that for example, Darkplaces could probably make a wonderful Exhumed port when you come down to it. But like I said even Darkplaces is having dynamic light add-ons to improve the look. If anything dynamic is the future not static especially as hardware gets faster and faster... the future will be more dynamic not less or the same as now... No, Doom 3 era was probably the wrong time to totally transition to dynamic but that time is coming... take that as you will.