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Black Mesa 2012 media campaign

User is offline   Bloodshot 

#151

Well I was trying to illustrate the point that I love that stuff so having a chapter mostly with that was great for me.

And I don't think Xen is going to focus on having as much jumping over insta-death. If they do have jumping it will probably be more forgiving this time around - but their goal is more akin to what Xen would've been - a completely different section of the game that (it was supposed to be the second half of the game originally) that mixes it up gameplay wise.

Unfortunately, the only thing that made it into the final release from their concepts was the visual style. Valve didn't have time to flesh Xen out so they basically slapped a bunch of jumping puzzles in and shipped it.

This post has been edited by Bloodshot: 22 September 2012 - 06:35 PM

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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#152

I'm in the middle of the conveyor belts section in residual processing right now, and I have to say, looking at my revolver I wish there was the ability to shoot myself. Right now it feels exactly like DNF: almost no combat, just wandering around through corridors, solving 'puzzles' and doing platforming segments. Unlike DNF though the combat is actually pretty fun, which is why these last few levels desperately need more of it.

I'm stuck at the moment so I'm going to look up a video walkthrough (I'm fed up with this section so I'm not going to put the boring time it'll take to figure out where I have to go properly). But to the game's credit, I remember getting stuck a lot easier in the original (mostly in a bunch of vents iirc). So they've done something right here.

Edit

Also, not sure if I've mentioned this: I hate that the crouch-jumping is still in there. I hated the jumping physics in the original and this was one of the reasons. I know it was probably a big deal back in 1998 with more control and skill required for jumping, but seriously, we've moved on in the last 14 years and IMHO it's a redundant feature. I'd rather be able to jump a normal height rather than 3 inches. Maybe they should have put in a special climb move for when you have to get on top of pipes and crates. I guess this is another reason I like Duke 3D; you can jump onto everything.

And I can never find anything in the wooden crates (there was an explosive one time). I remember being able to find all sorts of goodies in crates in the original game http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif

This post has been edited by Micky C: 24 September 2012 - 12:19 AM

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User is offline   necroslut 

#153

Yeah, I can't see why people have such a problem with On Rails as it always was pretty short, Residue Processing is much worse...
It will be interesting to see how Xen turns out, IMO most of the problems with Xen in the original came from the shitty player physics, the engine just wasn't up for that kind of gameplay. And it still isn't.
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User is offline   Bloodshot 

#154

View PostMicky C, on 24 September 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

I'm in the middle of the conveyor belts section in residual processing right now, and I have to say, looking at my revolver I wish there was the ability to shoot myself. Right now it feels exactly like DNF: almost no combat, just wandering around through corridors, solving 'puzzles' and doing platforming segments. Unlike DNF though the combat is actually pretty fun, which is why these last few levels desperately need more of it.

I'm stuck at the moment so I'm going to look up a video walkthrough (I'm fed up with this section so I'm not going to put the boring time it'll take to figure out where I have to go properly). But to the game's credit, I remember getting stuck a lot easier in the original (mostly in a bunch of vents iirc). So they've done something right here.

Edit

Also, not sure if I've mentioned this: I hate that the crouch-jumping is still in there. I hated the jumping physics in the original and this was one of the reasons. I know it was probably a big deal back in 1998 with more control and skill required for jumping, but seriously, we've moved on in the last 14 years and IMHO it's a redundant feature. I'd rather be able to jump a normal height rather than 3 inches. Maybe they should have put in a special climb move for when you have to get on top of pipes and crates. I guess this is another reason I like Duke 3D; you can jump onto everything.

And I can never find anything in the wooden crates (there was an explosive one time). I remember being able to find all sorts of goodies in crates in the original game http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif


You just have to check a lot of them, there's plenty of supplies

Also,

bms_normal_jump_vertical_speed "x"

Replace X with a value higher than 160, and there you go.

View Postnecroslut, on 24 September 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

Yeah, I can't see why people have such a problem with On Rails as it always was pretty short, Residue Processing is much worse...
It will be interesting to see how Xen turns out, IMO most of the problems with Xen in the original came from the shitty player physics, the engine just wasn't up for that kind of gameplay. And it still isn't.


On a Rail was incredibly long and drawn out in the original

This post has been edited by Bloodshot: 24 September 2012 - 06:26 AM

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User is offline   Inspector Lagomorf 

  • Glory To Motherland!

#155

View PostBloodshot, on 24 September 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

On a Rail was incredibly long and drawn out in the original


Haha...
"Just take this old rail system to the other side of the facility and you'll be at the Lambda Complex in no time!"

Valve Time applies to within Valve games too, it seems. ;)
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User is offline   necroslut 

#156

View PostBloodshot, on 24 September 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

On a Rail was incredibly long and drawn out in the original

I disagree, compared to the conveyor belts chapter it's not that long. Not nearly as long as I remembered it (I replayed the original game some time ago).
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User is offline   Bloodshot 

#157

On a Rail had a terrible first level, with a total of eight levels, each of them pretty long except the last one.

Residue Processing had four, and the first level is the outside area that you can finish in 20 seconds

This post has been edited by Bloodshot: 24 September 2012 - 10:06 PM

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User is offline   ---- 

#158

View PostMicky C, on 24 September 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

Also, not sure if I've mentioned this: I hate that the crouch-jumping is still in there. I hated the jumping physics in the original and this was one of the reasons. I know it was probably a big deal back in 1998 with more control and skill required for jumping, but seriously, we've moved on in the last 14 years and IMHO it's a redundant feature. I'd rather be able to jump a normal height rather than 3 inches.


You could change the jumpheight in the skills.cfg

bms_normal_jump_vertical_speed	"200"
bms_normal_jump_crouch_vertical_speed	"200"


The default value is 160 and the two lines are at the top of the file. Play around with the values above. 200 should be fine but some people reported 250 is OK too. I haven't tested it myself.

EDIT: Ninja'd for the vertical speed, sorry, but I was about to post a second solution anyways.


I played BM with this:

Instead of the above I recommend adding the following line to your auoexec.cfg, because that leaves the heights the devs designed the game around intact.

bind "space" "+crouchjump"
alias +crouchjump "+jump; wait 5; duckON"
alias -crouchjump "wait 5; duckOFF; -jump"
alias duckON "+duck"
alias duckOFF "-duck" 

//fix jump from crouch state
bind "ctrl" "+normalduck"
bind "c" "+normalduck"
alias +normalduck "+duck; alias duckON; alias duckOFF"
alias -normalduck "-duck; alias duckON +duck; alias duckOFF -duck"


You need to change "space", "c" and "ctrl" to your likings, of course.

The above code makes it so, that if you tap your jump key you jump normally. If you hold down your jump key, you do a duck jump automatically. It raised the enjoyment of the mod by 576% for me.

Both files (skills.cfg and autoexec.cfg) are in your Steam Folder -> SteamApps -> sourcemods -> BMS -> cfg.

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 25 September 2012 - 03:17 AM

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User is offline   necroslut 

#159

View PostBloodshot, on 24 September 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

On a Rail had a terrible first level, with a total of eight levels, each of them pretty long except the last one.

Residue Processing had four, and the first level is the outside area that you can finish in 20 seconds

Maybe I should have rephrased that as "the dull parts of On a Rail". RP might be small looking at it that way, but that's not really fair since you have to go around alot more there, and it's easy to get lost even after playing it several times. And it's boring, and doesn't even have almost any enemies. Worse than the "terrible first level", IMO.
Anyway, I realized I really missed On a rail now that it was (almost) gone.
I didn't realize people had a problem with the crouch jumping. You just hold the crouch key?

This post has been edited by necroslut: 26 September 2012 - 05:59 AM

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User is offline   Kathy 

#160

View Postnecroslut, on 26 September 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

I didn't realize people had a problem with the crouch jumping. You just hold the crouch key?

Because there is no point in having two jumps with the lesser one being almost useless and a better one a real pain to perform.
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User is offline   necroslut 

#161

View PostBurnett, on 26 September 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

Because there is no point in having two jumps with the lesser one being almost useless and a better one a real pain to perform.

I can understand that, what I don't get is how it's a "real pain".
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User is offline   thatguy 

#162

How is crouch jumping hard to perform? Easiest thing since sliced cheese. :/
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#163

Wow, I feel so old when I read shit like "omg why does crouch jump exist in half life" considering that in my youth I used to win money and hardware components in half life 1 multiplayer championships...
The crouch jumping is one of the most awesome and NOT pointless features ever to be added in half life.
Do not ask me to explain why I think that because I am not sure that I can explain to you why I believe that in a way that any hl noob can understand.
What I can say though is that coruch jumping becomes extremely useful in multiplayer matches, especially when you get the power-assist movement module.
Black Messa Source did not just add the crouch jumping because they thought of it, they added it because it was a key feature of hl1 and if I'm not mistaking even hl2 has crouch jumping.

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 26 September 2012 - 11:25 AM

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User is offline   Kathy 

#164

View Postnecroslut, on 26 September 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

I can understand that, what I don't get is how it's a "real pain".

Well... that's because I use ALT for a crouch. ;)
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User is offline   ---- 

#165

The problem is not pressing two buttons for crouch-jumping*.

The problem with crouch-jumping in Black Mesa is, that it isn't a special feature anymore.

In HL1 it was a special jump you needed for special occasions, which made it a unique feature for HL1. In BM it was simplified and degraded to a normal jump you need to perform everywhere, ripping off everything that was unique and special about crouch-jumping in HL1.


*) Although people might have forgotten about it in the first place because neither HL2, EP1 or EP2 required one single crouch-jump to complete the game without problems.

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 26 September 2012 - 02:13 PM

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User is offline   Sangman 

#166

View Postfuegerstef, on 26 September 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

In HL1 it was a special jump you needed for special occasions, which made it a unique feature for HL1. In BM it was simplified and degraded to a normal jump you need to perform everywhere, ripping off everything that was unique and special about crouch-jumping in HL1.


Lol it's just a jump, not a special occassion.
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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#167

I propose we round up all fanboys and have them shot.
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User is offline   ---- 

#168

View PostSangman, on 26 September 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

Lol it's just a jump, not a special occassion.


Yes, just a jump. Which you needed (!!!) to perform at special occasions like jumping into pipes or through windows. Not always.

And if it was just a jump as you say, then why do I have to press two buttons?
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User is offline   Sangman 

#169

What I meant was I don't get why you're so religiously defensive over a (crouch)jump. The jumping is ass in Black Mesa but I didn't feel like any kind of precious sacred vow was broken because I had to use crouchjump all the time.

This post has been edited by Sangman: 27 September 2012 - 11:36 AM

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User is offline   ---- 

#170

View PostSangman, on 27 September 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

What I meant was I don't get why you're so religiously defensive over a (crouch)jump. The jumping is ass in Black Mesa but I didn't feel like any kind of precious sacred vow was broken because I had to use crouchjump all the time.


If you actually had read my post (which you obviously did not, so I don't know why you even reply) you had gathered the following information:

I am against crouch-jumping as it is in Black Mesa because it is too much (well, almost everywhere) and not only usedr to get into a higher but smaller space. I am not against a crouch-jump at special occasions that would requires it to get for example into a pipe, which is too small to enter it uncrouched.

That is also the reason why I posted two methods in this very thread (which you just replied in several times) to get rid of the need for crouch jumping everywhere.

I also posted earlier in this thread (which you replied in but obviously didn't read at all) that getting rid of crouch jumping raised my enjyment of the mod by over 500% ... which to people who can read is a sign that I like the mod better without crouch jumping.

Hope that clears it up even for you. If not, try google-translate with chinese or so...

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 27 September 2012 - 12:51 PM

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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#171

View Postfuegerstef, on 27 September 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:



I also posted earlier in this thread (which you replied in but obviously didn't read at all) that getting rid of crouch jumping raised my enjyment of the mod by over 500% ... which to people who can read is a sign that I like the mod better without crouch jumping.



Eh, and therein lies the problem: you've given the feature an unduly weight which makes your position seem ridiculous.
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User is offline   Sangman 

#172

View Postfuegerstef, on 27 September 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

<stuff>


I did read your posts, I also read this:

Quote

everything that was unique and special about crouch-jumping in HL1.


It's just a jump during which you crouch. Who cares.
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User is offline   thatguy 

#173

View PostSangman, on 27 September 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

I did read your posts, I also read this:



It's just a jump during which you crouch. Who cares.


Game developers everywhere cringe. Its not as simple as that. The action is simple, but what it offers to gameplay isn't. It friggin allows you to crouch midair! It opens up possibilities when used properly. Your lack of caring is just as pathetic as someone saying, interactivity in Duke? Who cares. Needs more guns. Small things that make things work.
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User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#174

View Posts.b.Newsom, on 27 September 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Game developers everywhere cringe. Its not as simple as that. The action is simple, but what it offers to gameplay isn't. It friggin allows you to crouch midair! It opens up possibilities when used properly. Your lack of caring is just as pathetic as someone saying, interactivity in Duke? Who cares. Needs more guns. Small things that make things work.


No shit.


The difference in standard jumping between the two games is really big. They basically marginalised the different jumps entirely. Which was a dumb move.

This post has been edited by Commando Nukem: 27 September 2012 - 10:46 PM

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User is offline   ---- 

#175

View PostSangman, on 27 September 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

It's just a jump during which you crouch. Who cares.


Never get close to designing game, please.


View PostMikko_Sandt, on 27 September 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Eh, and therein lies the problem: you've given the feature an unduly weight which makes your position seem ridiculous.


Your lack of understanding things about gamedesign makes your point even more ridiculous.

There are at least 30 threads (and a lot are even merged now) about crouch-jumping on the BM-forums alone with hundreds of people complaining about it. And that's only those who registered there. A post on their FB page usually results in comments about crouch-jumping and how the commenter dislikes it. I don't blow anything out of proportion, you are just to limited to see beyond your own point of view. Crouch-jumping (as it is executed in BM) is a problem for a whole lot of people reducing their enjoyment of the mod.

I guess that a person like you will say "They suck." or "They should learn." or "these hundreds of people blow things out of proportion", but that only shows that you have no idea.

When you design gameplay and a large percentage (minus the blind fanboys and those with no unerstanding for game design) really dislikes a gameplay mechanic, there is a problem with the design, not with the people. Simple as that.

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 28 September 2012 - 02:30 AM

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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#176

View Postfuegerstef, on 28 September 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:


Your lack of understanding things about gamedesign makes your point even more ridiculous.

There are at least 30 threads (and a lot are even merged now) about crouch-jumping on the BM-forums alone with hundreds of people complaining about it.


Thank you for proving my point about fanboy idiocy. There are hundreds of topics on the official BF3 forums with angry virgin fanboys complaining the game is "broken" because of some tiny bug, filled with hackers (I've seen two in one year), is a console port, is not BF2, etc. These prove nothing about the game itself.

Quote

When you design gameplay and a large percentage (minus the blind fanboys and those with no unerstanding for game design) really dislikes a gameplay mechanic, there is a problem with the design, not with the people. Simple as that.


It's not a large percentage, only a vocal minority with time consumption problems. That's like saying bin Laden represents all Muslims.

This post has been edited by Mikko_Sandt: 28 September 2012 - 03:31 AM

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#177

Speaking of Ninja's...

I'm a bit sad that there are only 5 or 6 (I think) Ninja's in the entire game, or at least that is all I encountered in the section with all the Black Mesa metal containers. Is that all there were in the original HL1? It seems a shame the BMS team built and coded Ninja's, only to use 6 of them.

The crouch jump I like. Guess I'm used to it. I use it a lot on the level with all the trip mines and you cant set one off or the whole place explodes. Because jumping through the blue mine-rays you got to have a lot of control (sudden stop once you make a jump etc), and I found crouch-jumping a great control technique.

Every now and then someone will run into a bug and get stuck, It happend to me the other day in BM, but it rarley happens. When it does instead of complaining, I just noclip and get out of it that way. Not a big deal.

I dont know about the rest of you but I like Black Mesa a lot, I think they did a hell of a job on it.

What do you guys think of the HandHive animation when you first pick it up? ;)

If you "impulse 101" with cheats turned on, the HiveHand is the first weapon you get and it goes thru the animation.

This post has been edited by Blue Lightning: 28 September 2012 - 07:48 PM

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User is offline   Lunick 

  • Snazzy Ex Tazzy

#178

View PostBlue Lightning, on 28 September 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

video


http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af68/Lunick_Fiore/LOLGIFS/cce6aa9e-c40c-4ae7-aebe-d7780d6fc009.gif
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User is offline   Bloodshot 

#179

Black Mesa has actually got me really interested in HL again. I'm probably going to play HL2 and it's episodes soon, but It's also got me looking up so much stuff about the HL2 beta again, which I think would have been awesome if some of that stuff made it in the game. I love the darker tone and atmosphere, and overall visual style of it.

It's also got me interested of mods trying to emulate (and replicate) the original HL2 ideas, like Dark Interval, Conscript, and Opposing Force 2 (not exactly beta-based but it integrates some beta concepts/designs as well as some cut HL1 stuff, and looks damn cool to boot.)

This post has been edited by Bloodshot: 28 September 2012 - 09:15 PM

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User is offline   ---- 

#180

View PostBlue Lightning, on 28 September 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:


What do you guys think of the HandHive animation when you first pick it up? ;)


I love it. A bit too long, though. And unfortunately a lot of people didn't get to see it. Gordon's left hand is hard to see before he "puts on" the hivehand and people posted bug reports because the hivehand floats in the air on the left and is not on Gordons hand. (And noooo, it wasn't me, just pointing out that threads in the bug report secion had been made) Could have been fixed by either making it shorter it or having Gordons left hand hold the hivehand more obviously.

About the feamle assasins. I think there aren't really more in HL. IIRC you don't see one single assasin in HL1 when you play on easy.
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