[Inspector Lagomorf]

The 3D Realms maps provided LOTS more ammunition than needed, most likely to account for the fact that the average player (that term has become such a buzzword really) is quite trigger-happy, so it comes as no surprise that the user maps are a lot more conservative with ammo placement.

I agree with Gambini. I noticed that near the end it got really quiet and there was a sudden glut of heavy weapons and ammo. I was a bit disappointed to find that it was just another Battlelord Jr..

[Mikko]

 The Mighty Bison, on 25 February 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

I agree with Gambini. I noticed that near the end it got really quiet and there was a sudden glut of heavy weapons and ammo. I was a bit disappointed to find that it was just another Battlelord Jr..

I'm not sure what Corentin added to the last version but all I did, as far as heavy weaponry is concerned, is give an RPG (and even that was hidden) prior to the first Battlelord fight and, after that, a Devastator with 45 rockets, about the right amount for one Battlelord fight.

[Micky C]

Is Gambini's review meant to be on MSDN yet? I can't see the map and I thought he submitted it yesterday.

[MetHy]

 Hank, on 25 February 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

@ MetHy - I just noticed two more legitimate 'short cuts' in the map. It seems the map gets better the more I play it. Yes, I am for alternate ways. Cheers, and thanks.

I assume the first shortcut is the backdoor of the strip room, but what's the 2nd one?

[MetHy]

 Paul B, on 25 February 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

More missed textures and shading spots. I was pretty tired last night and forgot to mention more of the obvious stuff. So here it is there isn't much.

pic 4 wasn't fixed because it only happens for you

the other pics are really huge nitpicking and if neither mikko nor myself noticed it I doubt anybody else will except for you, and even if they did, it's really not much

[Mikko]

 Micky C, on 25 February 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Is Gambini's review meant to be on MSDN yet? I can't see the map and I thought he submitted it yesterday.

It's up now: http://msdn.duke4.net/hotsincenter.php

[Paul B]

Definitely a more than generous review. I think Gambini meant to say that weapons and ammo aren't plentiful and the map takes an average of 20 minutes not 10 minutes. If you run through the map in 10 minutes your on some substance. I found there to be too much health and not enough ammo.
What this map was missing was Steroids for those long streets and big jump.

Let's recap the actual stats found on the map.

75 monsters 2 of which are mini bosses. Includes alien respawns

Big Health Kit:11
Atomic Health: 1
Small Health Kit: 10
Armor: 4

Pistols: 3 Ammo: 1
Shot guns: 3 Ammo boxes: 5
Chain Guns: 2 Ammo boxes: 3
RPG: 2 RPG Ammo: None
Devestator: 1 Ammo: 3
Shrinker: 1 Ammo: 1
Expander Ammo: 4
Freezer Gun: 1 Freezer Gun Ammo 1
Pipebombs: 4 boxes

You can draw your own conclusions. I would consider this map a medium sized map based on its physical size and 3 keycard system.

Hmm... this gives me an idea of making a short speed map. Not designed to kill every enemy but keep the player moving forward without back tracking. Back tracking would result in death it would definitely be a speed run with limited ammo and health. Maybe I can pull it off in an hr and a half of mapping too. I think i'll call it Run and Gun. (R&G.map) Now back to Mapster

[Hank]

 MetHy, on 25 February 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

I assume the first shortcut is the backdoor of the strip room, but what's the 2nd one?

The second one is the Boss in the garage. Instead of killing the actor, one can run just run along the columns out to the street to the next 'fight'. The loss in health can be made up with new armour later on. It is not an actual route as in a tunnel or duct run. - Keep in mind, I'm weird.

@ Mikko. Why is there such a rush in posting a review? It takes weeks to make a map, and a day after the official issue, we have two reviews. One from Forge and one from Gambini. Is there a competition going on? Yes, I am asking and not implying anything negative or positive.

[High Treason]

Ont he subject of the mini-battlelord thing, I can assure you that mini-battlelords can be shrunk in V1.3D and V1.5 - See here - you can do it in a single hit too, but I was quite far away that time and the game tends to snap the aiming to a point just above the area you need to hit, aim for the battlelord's crotch.

I haven't had a chance to try the map yet but it looks good, I shall try it tomorrow and come back here to post my opinions on it.

[Gambini]

 Paul B, on 25 February 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Definitely a more than generous review. I think Gambini meant to say that weapons and ammo aren't plentiful and the map takes an average of 20 minutes not 10 minutes. If you run through the map in 10 minutes your on some substance. I found there to be too much health and not enough ammo.
What this map was missing was Steroids for those long streets and big jump.

The rating has been tweaked to suit MSDN´s standards better. Otherwise I think the review is fair, not generous. Nobody will play a map for 2nd time as they did for first time. Now I know where all keycards are and everything i have to do to make my way to the nukebutton. Otherwise I´d show you through Live Stream how easy it is for me.

But i can assure you the map took me 17 minutes, and in that time I took screenshots, left the game running for a drink (forgot to pause it first) and wandered around watching everything to be sure I didn´t miss anything. So it´s safe to say that I wasted about 7 minutes. I didn´t need to retrieve any save game, and only was below 70 on health in that part of the garage where a lot of turrets are shooting at you. At the end of the level I had all that remaining ammo I previously mentioned.

I don´t know you, but I´m the kind of player that finds slightly hard what most other players find normal. So, i can honorably define myself as a subpar player.

[MetHy]

I don't understand why all the comments about the abundance of ammo when it's something that happens in the vast majority of Duke maps (and I'm also talking usermaps here). Not to mention that the aim of the map was to feel like of the original Duke maps (which all have even more ammo).

On a side note, if you don't like the abundance of ammo here you're going to loathe our upcoming classic style episode. This one really has as much as the original maps (also because each original map was designed so that they could be beaten starting with only the pistol and 100 health, which was our goal as well).

Also about the map not ending on a "battle with a big wave of enemies", it was sort of intentional as well, the point was to make a map that felt like an episode 3 map. My biggest inspiration for the map is a map that I consider being the best "classic style" usermap ever made : Back Alley (aka _balley.map), although I detached myself from the classic style in quite a few parts because of texturing which is something balley never did. But if you played that map you'd understand where I'm going.
Not every map is supposed to end on a big fight.

[teemac]

I joined this forum just to thank and congratulate the author on his map. As a first attempt (if I read things right) this is very well done. I use Linux for everything and all my gaming for the last 5 or 6 years (love eDuke32) and have about 35 years computer experience behind me.

The errors several members mentioned did not affect me at all on my version.

Reminds me of the classic levels I played when Duke first came out, way back when - well done and I hope to see many more maps from you.

[Lunick]

You're making an episode? I'll be patient and wait for it

[MetHy]

 teemac, on 26 February 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

I joined this forum just to thank and congratulate the author on his map. As a first attempt (if I read things right) this is very well done. I use Linux for everything and all my gaming for the last 5 or 6 years (love eDuke32) and have about 35 years computer experience behind me.

The errors several members mentioned did not affect me at all on my version.

Reminds me of the classic levels I played when Duke first came out, way back when - well done and I hope to see many more maps from you.

Thanks for the feedback. It's not exactly "my first attempt" at the same time because I didn't finish it alone, and also because I have quite a bit of other stuff built: quite a few unreleased/unfinished stuff, made parts in the following CBPs s (maps in which several mappers build together) : CBP6, 2hour CBP, JFCBP1, JFCBP2, Suburban Hive (aka 2hour CBP2), Suburban Hive 2 - Crimson Moon (aka 2hour CBP3); as well as two deathmatch maps I'm rather proud of: Atomic Bunker and Canyon Bunker.

But I have yet to release a standalone map in which I've worked alone.

I also made 2 maps and 3/4 of a third one (which Mikko finished as well) in this upcoming episode

 Lunick, on 26 February 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

You're making an episode? I'll be patient and wait for it

which is 98% done.

[Mikko]

 Paul B, on 25 February 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Definitely a more than generous review. I think Gambini meant to say that weapons and ammo aren't plentiful and the map takes an average of 20 minutes not 10 minutes. If you run through the map in 10 minutes your on some substance

It's a fair review. If I had reviewed the map without having worked on it, it probably would have scored above 90 (assuming identical map versions, of course). Maps of this size (medium) are also easily beatable in less than ten minutes. Few maps take 20 minutes.

 Hank, on 25 February 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

@ Mikko. Why is there such a rush in posting a review? It takes weeks to make a map, and a day after the official issue, we have two reviews. One from Forge and one from Gambini. Is there a competition going on? Yes, I am asking and not implying anything negative or positive.

There's no competition but at least I have always tried to come up with reviews as soon as a level is released which is of course how it should be, seeing how reviews are supposed to tell players whether the map is worth playing and to advertise the map. A review that's published after everyone has already tried the map is like a lost opportunity, mostly serving the author's curiosity. Apply what I just said to games in general and you should understand my point.

[Forge]

 Mikko_Sandt, on 26 February 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

There's no competition but at least I have always tried to come up with reviews as soon as a level is released which is of course how it should be, seeing how reviews are supposed to tell players whether the map is worth playing and to advertise the map. A review that's published after everyone has already tried the map is like a lost opportunity, mostly serving the author's curiosity.

this




if a review can't be put out in a reasonable time then it might as well be put off for months, or even years, when it's opportune to re-advertise the map. it may catch the eye of a new group of people or remind veterans that it was a map worth re-playing.

[Jblade]

About the shrinker/battlelord debate - it IS possible, but only if you hit the dead center of the battlelord's sprite. This was hard in original Duke3D since autoaim was always on and couldn't be disabled. With Eduke32 it CAN be disabled, meaning you can aim for the dead center much more easily.

[rasmus thorup]

What does auto-aim aim for? I thought it was the center of the sprite?

[Jblade]

It aims for the middle of the sprite, but if you try it out you'll see that it fires at at an angle if you're not facing the monster dead on meaning it doesn't hit it right. It's difficult to explain but go ingame and try firing at one with autoaim turned on and then off.

[Mikko]

 James, on 26 February 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

About the shrinker/battlelord debate - it IS possible, but only if you hit the dead center of the battlelord's sprite. This was hard in original Duke3D since autoaim was always on and couldn't be disabled. With Eduke32 it CAN be disabled, meaning you can aim for the dead center much more easily.

That explains a lot.

[Forge]

my personal opinion is that using the shrinker on mini-battlelords is cheating. it completely detracts from the challenge and fun. boring would be a good description.

this map provides more than an adequate amount of fire power. its wide selection of weapons and large supply of health render this "cheating" as unnecessary

if you used this cheap method to defeat the mini-battlelords in this map then complain that it was too easy, then shame on you for not following the spirit of the challenge. using it "just because it's there" is your personal choice to take the easy way out

[Merlijn]

I wouldn't go as far as calling it cheating, after all it's a game mechanism. Personally speaking, I rarely use the shrinker on tough enemies at all because it just makes the game way too easy. I usually prefer to beat commanders with regular weapons as well - unless they're in tight areas.
Having said that, it's good to make the weapon available in a map, so every player can choose his own strategy and playing style.

[rasmus thorup]

I think the right word is cheap. I think it's cheap to use it on battlelords too. Just like i hate using potions and such items in RPG games xD final fantasy gets hard at times :S

[High Treason]

I like the way nobody noticed I posted practically the same thing as James several posts before - and I though I needed glasses

Anyway, the map. I have just played it, took me around 15 mins to complete (I took my time, I'm in an overobservant mood), I like the design and layout, the "feel" of the map is good too. I barely noticed the patches that were overscaled or had stretched textures as it played very well, the spawning enemies helped keep me on my toes. a good map.

[Danukem]

 High Treason, on 26 February 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

I like the way nobody noticed I posted practically the same thing as James several posts before

That's because you didn't use the magical word "autoaim".

[Blue Lightning]

I like how open it is in some areas. Although a linear map for the most part, some large open areas allows players to choose direction and gives it some semi-non linearity. and of course I like a city-scape. However, a few areas were very dark.

Nicley constructed...it made some sense. It seemed clean and fairly polished too.

The giant crater in the middle of the intersection...I hate invisable walls. I know, it had to be made so a player couldnt get thru there, but still...

I would of liked to hear some ambient sound. Yes, I always talk about that on every map I play...but simple stuff like wind-noise adds atmosphere to a map in a big way (at least to me).

All in all a good romp. Look forward to playing it again tomorrow.


PS: I thought you could freeze or shrink a battlord after you knocked his health down to almost zero first. I didnt know you could hit him in the center with one shot to shrink (freeze too?).

[Gambini]

 Blue Lightning, on 26 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

PS: I thought you could freeze or shrink a battlord after you knocked his health down to almost zero first. I didnt know you could hit him in the center with one shot to shrink (freeze too?).

Correct me if I´m wrong but the shrinker doesn´t alter the health, whileas the freezer hurts the objective until it reachs 1 and then it gets frozen. You can experiment this with your own "body" since those are two bouncing weapons.

[rasmus thorup]

Try and kill the cycloid emperor with the shrinker, it's possible. But you are right.

[Forge]

down vote this post if you eat tossed salad with man sauce

[rasmus thorup]

Who are you talking to -.-