[Jimmy]

Mad Max RW, on 20 February 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Do you think they truly believe that? It was several years before Warren Spector and Harvey Smith publicly admitted how much of a piece of shit Invisible War turned out. The people at Tryptich were at best happy to be done and move on with their lives. I'm betting in the years to come we will hear the full truth and it won't be so pretty.

I believe that it is mostly true. From all the stuff that got leaked after the Take2/3DR shit storm, there really isn't anything that doesn't fit together. It could have been polished a little more, but we essentially got what was planned. I mean, just read the leaked design documents. It's all there. Even with full polish, it wouldn't have been the great game we all hoped for. That is the main point of contention with DNF. People cannot separate feelings from reality. 14 years of hype is what killed Duke Nukem Forever.

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Except what you're doing is now implying one has to have been around in the Duke Community since it began to have any clue as to what has gone on. What I wrote from the start was that Gearbox had blame in DNF, and on the side of that, the destruction of this Fan project (Which is what the topic is about, if you check). You then went into hyper drive and began ranting and raving on how Gearbox had no blame, and unless you've gone back and edited posts now, we both know this was true at the time. Completely missing the entire point of what I was saying from the start, I tried engaging with you, but you just didn't get it.

Am I going to try and get off on the rather foolish "A poor choice of words, if you will" Excuse like you just tried pulling off? No of course not, lol. I never stated in the original post that the other companies , and even the main guy behind the project, weren't to blame as well as gearbox, I simply expressed my main hatred towards Gearbox for the recent ways they have been acting and for the trainwreck of a game they released (DNF).

Did I miss something now or are you still raging?

It's funny because you have been the one using personal attacks and assumptions.

It means I have a better clue than you. There is a huge difference between experience and going back and reading the past. And I'm not editing any posts, Gearbox gave Interceptor a chance and they blew it. That was my original post, and YOU were the first one to go into hyperdrive writing a wall of bullshit to a line I wrote. And no, one of those downvotes was not from me, though you deserve it.

[Rebecca]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

And I didn't realize anything was 'wrong.' My post still stands to the reasoning of what I was saying. You cannot bring up one legitimate argument that proves me wrong, all you have is personal attacks, assumptions, and insisting you are correct.

It's funny because you have been the one using personal attacks and assumptions.

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

All I'm reading is fanboyisms...

...I've been in the community for ~10 years, and I've seen everything come and go from DukeWorld to today. You have no valuable reference point, because you just got here a few weeks ago max.

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

You are not as smart of a poster as I thought you might be. I bet you came in from Gearbox's forums. How am I defending Gearbox? Elaborate.

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

You're like a child wandering into the middle of a movie.

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

It means I have a better clue than you. There is a huge difference between experience and going back and reading the past. And I'm not editing any posts, Gearbox gave Interceptor a chance and they blew it. That was my original post, and YOU were the first one to go into hyperdrive writing a wall of bullshit to a line I wrote. And no, one of those downvotes was not from me, though you deserve it.

There was no hyperdrive on behalf of myself, other than you reacting as a troll in the face of something you didn't like. If you don't like the truth being spoken and enjoy seeing it silenced, perhaps the gearbox forums would be more suited for your tastes?

[Jimmy]

How exactly are those personal attacks? They are facts.

[Mad Max RW]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

14 years of hype is what killed Duke Nukem Forever.

I largely disagree. It may be a factor with older PC gamers, but the majority of people who bought DNF are too young to have been aware of the franchise and its history before the game was revealed at PAX. What killed DNF was unoriginality and poor design marketed as a AAA title with a AAA price. Before you come back with something witty about COD being unoriginal at least it delivers something to a large established fanbase who keep on eating it up. DNF didn't really deliver anything to the older fans and especially to the console kids they were targeting.

[Rebecca]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

How exactly are those personal attacks? They are facts.

Which is in turn another personal attack by brushing off other personal attacks as just "facts". It's just amusing you called me out on attacking you when it has been the complete opposite.

[Jimmy]

Well, I'm thinking on a larger scale. I think they thought that they could just ride in on this "messiah of FPS gaming" wave. Just look at the marketing cycle, what a charade. It was too much of a fencewalker, and it ended up being pleasurable in neither a classic nor modern sense. It was all cobbled together over the years.

How exactly are they personal attacks? Don't avoid the question.

[ReaperMan]

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

It's funny because you have been the one using personal attacks and assumptions.

Assumptions.

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Considering Gearbox have also been banning users for simply writing the truth, we move on to another pathetic story.. They are childish at the least.

You can speak with your wallet if you defend and support Gearbox , but they are just another pigish company in all fairness and it doesn't take an intelligent discussion to see that. Of course they will continue being pigish for as long as the fans they treat like shit support them,

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

By MODERN STANDARDS!? The game could run on a freaking PS2...

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

I don't believe this changes any of the companies in question being asshole companies that rip off users and care about money while treating the people that buy their stuff like shit,

Personal attacks

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

You seem extremely upset and utterly torn for somebody that these companies don't give two damns about.

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

Fixed!

Rebecca, on 20 February 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Lol coming from the poster that thinks his join date on the forum implies knowledge and has become enraged enough to use the rep system against me (Oh noes), which apparently means something around here.

So both of you STFU.

[Rebecca]

I'm on my period ffs ! Shit's like Brutal Doom down here.

Side note @ Reaper Man, none of those highlights even came close to attacks and where actual facts related to the discussion. Fail. The assumptions on Gearbox are also fact due to the well known bannings.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

I'm sure everyone knows what this is.




Stop beating it.

[LeoD]

Better let them. Otherwise they might turn to a living one.

[Come On And Slam]

How the fuck does this happen? Almost every--No, EVERY single topic I see on this forum that sparks a small debate ALWAYS has Wolfe and someone else arguing. That's not even an exaggeration. Every time someone disagrees with someone else ( Usually Wolfe. Maybe that's coincidence? ), they start throwing fucking fists at everything

PS: I still have to agree that Gearbox is full of assholes, and they ruined DNF.

[ReaperMan]

Leave the poor dead horse alone, stop beating it!

[X-Vector]

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

I believe that it is mostly true. From all the stuff that got leaked after the Take2/3DR shit storm, there really isn't anything that doesn't fit together. It could have been polished a little more, but we essentially got what was planned.

Planned in 2006 perhaps, at a point in time when 3DR were forced to abandon their original lofty ambitions and slip into damage control mode.
Locations and plot points aside, the version of DNF that was released bears almost no resemblance to the game that GB & co. were gunning for in the first five years of development.

Consider the most recent post by Charlie Wiederhold; that flamethrower idea alone contains more creativity than all of DNF and the DLC combined.

Now this is what Scott Miller told Daily Radar back in 2001:

Quote

Now with most of the gameplay elements in place, Duke Nukem Forever is finally taking on a final form that has raised the internal excitement here tremendously -- I think this game is going to rewrite the book on what gamers expect from a 3D action game. In fact, I'm betting that games of this magnitude will be few and far between in the future because of the time and money needed to make something this detailed and ambitious. DR: 3D Realms has a reputation for keeping release dates close to the vest; the line "it's done when it's done" has become synonymous with you guys. Why do you do that? It seems most folks in the industry are quite happy to give out release dates and then blow them. Why the difference in your case?

SM: We'd give out a release date if and when we knew the date ourselves. It's really that simple. If we were making a cookie-cutter or paint-by-numbers game, then sure, we could fairly accurately figure out a release date maybe a year in advance. But we design in a very organic fashion, and we will take the time to get things right, even if it means redoing things which might set us back.

As we make Duke Nukem Forever, we experiment with new styles of gameplay and other never-been-seen innovations, and this often takes time to figure out and implement correctly, or just completely drop if it's not working out.

Luckily for us and gamers, we have the financial independence to do this research while making the game, and when DNF comes out, everyone -- I hope! -- will be happy with the innovative results.

Source: http://web.archive.o...age_1608_1.html

Now, I know that 3DR's management was always keen on a bit of old fashioned hubris, but I still don't believe they would gleefully put their head on the chopping block, knowing from the start that they could never come even remotely close to the hype they were building up.

This is Miller some five years later:

Quote

First, we fully admit we're screwed up the development of DNF, and it's now an industry joke. I laugh (and cry) when I think about it, too. Our fault is that we set the bar too high, and we tried too hard to make the game to beat all games. In the last 18 months we've taken a much more realistic look at the project, we've hired a truckload of experienced help, and I personally believe we are now on the right track…finally.

Source: http://www.yougamers..._be_king-page4/

[Sangman]

I see this discussion has died out. This is of course not acceptable.

Wolfe, on 20 February 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

It means I have a better clue than you. There is a huge difference between experience and going back and reading the past.

Are you being intentionally dense? Cause that's ridiculous You don't really need to be an Einstein to get what this situation is about, reading works..

[Rebecca]

Slippy_Pig, on 20 February 2012 - 07:00 PM, said:

How the fuck does this happen? Almost every--No, EVERY single topic I see on this forum that sparks a small debate ALWAYS has Wolfe and someone else arguing. That's not even an exaggeration. Every time someone disagrees with someone else ( Usually Wolfe. Maybe that's coincidence? ), they start throwing fucking fists at everything

PS: I still have to agree that Gearbox is full of assholes, and they ruined DNF.

I know, that would be Wolfe. The few PM's I recently got telling me he was a raging troll weren't kidding. Perhaps the Gearbox forums are more suited for his tastes if he is looking for a place to defend them. As for the situation here, it really doesn't take a brain to know Gearbox are behind the fucking up of Duke just as equally as the other parties involved. You'd actually think that anybody who does have a brain wouldn't be a forum regular here defending Gearbox.

[Rebecca]

With all due respect to whatever reputation this Wolfe guy has around here, my only thoughts on the guy would be, as Duke would say, to get That Crap outta here.

I didn't realize this was the Gearbox forum when I posted here,

[Hank]

Rebecca, on 21 February 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

With all due respect to whatever reputation this Wolfe guy has around here, my only thoughts on the guy would be, as Duke would say, to get That Crap outta here.

I didn't realize this was the Gearbox forum when I posted here, doesn't really bother me if I'm a newbie to these forums or not, the guy's a raging troll, as a few others made me aware.

This is the duke4.net forum. If you have a beef with another member, either use PM or select an arbitrator i.e. moderator.

[Mad Max RW]

There is an ignore user option in your forum profile settings for a reason...

And you let yourself get baited into an argument with him. A stupid argument.

[Rebecca]

Hank, on 21 February 2012 - 08:15 AM, said:

This is the duke4.net forum. If you have a beef with another member, either use PM or select an arbitrator i.e. moderator.

Lol the guy's been throwing beef the moment I proved him wrong, quit sucking up. Problem with this community is the majority of users like you just sit back and take the stupidass trolling going on around here, usually because of biased views because you feel he is a decent modder or something or other. it's why most forums suck . If people don't like being told how it is around here, i.e. Gearbox suck, why not head over to the gearbox forum ? They would be the place to go for ones who don't enjoy reading the truth

Mad Max RW, on 21 February 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

There is an ignore user option in your forum profile settings for a reason...

And you let yourself get baited into an argument with him. A stupid argument.

I was bored, and knew I'd won the argument before it started, I just felt like calling the troll out and enraging him. Of course he was stupid from the start, but once again the problem is users like him are simply given the blind eye because all you guys suggest is to "ignore" it. It's the same reason every forum sucks.

People around here need to grow some balls and stop crying when somebody actually takes on a troll ...

[Mad Max RW]

Rebecca, on 21 February 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

If people don't like being told how it is around here, i.e. Gearbox suck, why not head over to the gearbox forum ?

I've been saying how much they suck since the day I registered here. Before DNF was released I took a lot of flack for speaking truthfully about them, but today the general tone is anti-Gearbox. However, a few knuckleheads still have a twisted view of history and cling to insane conspiracy theories because reality is too scary.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Rebecca, on 21 February 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

I was bored, and knew I'd won the argument before it started, I just felt like calling the troll out and enraging him. Of course he was stupid from the start, but once again the problem is users like him are simply given the blind eye because all you guys suggest is to "ignore" it. It's the same reason every forum sucks.

People around here need to grow some balls and stop crying when somebody actually takes on a troll ...

How often do we get people like this on the forum nowadays?

[Rebecca]

Mad Max RW, on 21 February 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

I've been saying how much they suck since the day I registered here. Before DNF was released I took a lot of flack for speaking truthfully about them, but today the general tone is anti-Gearbox. However, a few knuckleheads still have a twisted view of history and cling to insane conspiracy theories because reality is too scary.

Yeah true, but that's exactly the kinda stench around here leaving a musty stain on the community. People just need to start dealing with the truth and quit bursting into tears when it's said and told, i.e. Wolfe

@The Mighty Bison , you're 8 pages late for giving Wolfe that response, I'm afraid.

[Hank]

Rebecca, on 21 February 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Lol the guy's been throwing beef the moment I proved him wrong, quit sucking up. Problem with this community is the majority of users like you just sit back and take the stupidass trolling going on around here, usually because of biased views because you feel he is a decent modder or something or other. it's why most forums suck . If people don't like being told how it is around here, i.e. Gearbox suck, why not head over to the gearbox forum ? They would be the place to go for ones who don't enjoy reading the truth

People around here need to grow some balls and stop crying when somebody actually takes on a troll ...

How do you know who I am, what I think or who I respect? And what on earth makes you think the forum members are stupid enough to feed the trolls?
So I repeat and for the last time, this is the duke4.net forums.

[thatguy]

Hey! Is that a squirrel over there? Oh cool! A SQUIRREL! LOOK GUYS! A FRIGGIN SQUIRREL!!!!!

[Jimmy]

X-Vector, on 21 February 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

Planned in 2006 perhaps, at a point in time when 3DR were forced to abandon their original lofty ambitions and slip into damage control mode.
Locations and plot points aside, the version of DNF that was released bears almost no resemblance to the game that GB & co. were gunning for in the first five years of development.

Now, I know that 3DR's management was always keen on a bit of old fashioned hubris, but I still don't believe they would gleefully put their head on the chopping block, knowing from the start that they could never come even remotely close to the hype they were building up.

I get what you're saying, and I agree. But my point was that this far along, this is the DNF we would have gotten regardless. You get what I'm saying? It would have been hacked together at the last second if it was still in 3DR's hands.

Sangman, on 21 February 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

Are you being intentionally dense? Cause that's ridiculous You don't really need to be an Einstein to get what this situation is about, reading works..

You're right, but do you really expect a noob to read almost a year's worth of posts?

Rebecca, on 21 February 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Lol the guy's been throwing beef the moment I proved him wrong, quit sucking up. Problem with this community is the majority of users like you just sit back and take the stupidass trolling going on around here, usually because of biased views because you feel he is a decent modder or something or other. it's why most forums suck . If people don't like being told how it is around here, i.e. Gearbox suck, why not head over to the gearbox forum ? They would be the place to go for ones who don't enjoy reading the truth

I was bored, and knew I'd won the argument before it started, I just felt like calling the troll out and enraging him. Of course he was stupid from the start, but once again the problem is users like him are simply given the blind eye because all you guys suggest is to "ignore" it. It's the same reason every forum sucks.

People around here need to grow some balls and stop crying when somebody actually takes on a troll ...

You never proved me wrong. And much to my chagrin, this thread actually has no trolling from me whatsoever. I don't troll around here much anymore. There might be tinges of it occasionally. And your views are pretty wrong, most people around here have lukewarm feelings for me at best. And I never said Gearbox didn't suck. Afterall, I've never bought a recent game of their's, and there are plenty of threads where I've talked about how Borderlands is garbage.

On the other hand, it is apparent that you are a troll, and a bad one at that.

[Kathy]

Wolfe, on 21 February 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

most people around he have lukewarm feelings for me at best.

But... but...

[ReaperMan]

s.b.Newsom, on 21 February 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

Hey! Is that a squirrel over there? Oh cool! A SQUIRREL! LOOK GUYS! A FRIGGIN SQUIRREL!!!!!

[thelegend4ever]

Gaaahh it never ends...

Rebecca, on 21 February 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Lol the guy's been throwing beef the moment I proved him wrong, quit sucking up. Problem with this community is the majority of users like you just sit back and take the stupidass trolling going on around here, usually because of biased views because you feel he is a decent modder or something or other. it's why most forums suck . If people don't like being told how it is around here, i.e. Gearbox suck, why not head over to the gearbox forum ? They would be the place to go for ones who don't enjoy reading the truth

Bit of advice, when others are saying that the subject is dead and quit beatin it like a dead horse, saying you "won" the argument while dissing others in the process, won't help anything and will only add fuel to the fire that was supposed to be put out a couple of pages ago.

[Sangman]

Don't listen to the thelegend4ever, letting it all out is good!

[Rebecca]

Sangman, on 21 February 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

Don't listen to the thelegend4ever, letting it all out is good!

Wolfe spews it all out and has been since page 1 of this thread if anyone goes back and looks, the users that pick his side of things and say I'm the troll are the ones with biased views because of some sort of "reputation" he has around here. Just like he believes his join date and post count on the forums imply he knows best, those users believe it too. They just need to grow the fuck up. Also this all started because he didn't like my post saying Gearbox fucked up this project and sucked ass, makes sense in a Duke community to be getting mad over a known fact right?

Anyway I'm not trolling, I'm wrote the truth, and I will admit I did call him the Musty Stench of this forum, but he has also been attacking newbies in other threads so he needs to grow some balls. So do the people screaming and crying and standing on his side, since he attacks people first. Gearbox are to blame for fucking this fan project up just as much as the other guys, and considering they already fucked up DNF, why the hell does anyone wanna try arguing on their behalf here in the first place ?

This fan project looked a 100x better than that shit Gearbox released, so I don't care how many mistakes the guy behind the project made, the fact was it was still a decent project, and I find it hard to believe the guy behind the project can be a bigger douchewad than Wolfe, so he needs to stop trying to make out that guy was the reason it got fucked over.

thelegend4ever needs to take the advice, not me, and that would be stop acting like a pussywhipped noob and telling other people not to beat the dead horse while completley disregarding the fact Wolfe did it first.