[iamaloner]

Hello guys...

I am a kid/teen that is kinda a fan of Duke Nukem trilogy and that, also I love to see things done with BUILD engine when I see in some videos maps and games that showing modified/added/tricks for mods/standalone build games with or without some of DN3D art/sprites or most of it content...

I want to make a mod or a even standalone game on running on eduke32, if even in reality it can be standalone mod/game like Zombie Crisis...



...and Duke Theft Auto but most of these standalones games/mods were officialy or unofficialy dead/abandoned and dint had any progress or giving others people to continue the project under their supervision or direction.

I would like to make a standalone mod based on BUILD engine and bunch of people to help me and to teach some things that I would like to do and to make together something special and imersive and I need alot of informations and suggestions of what to use!

I dont know what tools to use, what to extract or pack data from GRP/SSI data packs or I rather called them BUILDs version of WADs...

Anyway my expirience with modding was simple, I had few mini-project... Mostly failed because of lack of skills or no information/tutorials on the web how to learn things and uncorperative modding community to newbs or not willing to share the o mighty knowlegde how to mod some game because they want to have less modders on some game and to have a status of "rarity" or like "skilled" modders...! >_>

So I would like to make a huge modification that would be kinda complex, RPG elements, some realism, lots of features(mostly simple or something), good game mehanics, etc... Actually a standalone mod/game that tons of people would play it in singleplayer or multiplayer...

If possible:
- 128 or 256+ players in one server (and map if possible)
- role-playing elements
- various scripted events depending on what happened and whats the date
- kinda open-world
- if possible an MMO made in BUILD engine

I want to learn how to extract stuff, make things, change some stuff, add some stuff, tons of things if possible... !!

Currently the only things I know is some little simple mapping in mapster32 and thats all involved in Duke Nukem 3D...

I made maps for Doom 2 a year ago or two, simple... I tried to make things like in those tutorials and that, experimented, I quited because of various things, I learned from one guy the mapping in hammer editor for Half Life 2... He is now banned on Steam, he teached me stuff but because of financial crisis my parents couldt afford to pay internet anymore

So after 9 months of not being online and getting back internet 2/3 months ago I decided to get back into modding...

I cant wait for the response... Will I be flamed or accepted... Shot or recruited...

It depends on upon you...

[Hank]

can't resist : Welcome to the forum.
I'm Hank, resident smartass, old fart, single player, and ... good luck

[iamaloner]

Yea, thanks Hank...

I hope you might someone that could help me... I would really like to make some mod that modding comunity would remember and probavly preserve on continue the work of the mod if I am not avalible anymore for the mod/game or if I decide to make other mod or learn modding for others game and that the community continues the development of the mod with or without of my direction or suggestions(supervision)...

[Hendricks266]

I'm not going to sugar-coat this: There is no chance a self-professed newbie can pull off something of this scale. You are going in way over your head.

iamaloner, on 11 February 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Mostly failed because of lack of skills or no information/tutorials on the web how to learn things and uncorperative modding community to newbs or not willing to share the o mighty knowlegde how to mod some game because they want to have less modders on some game and to have a status of "rarity" or like "skilled" modders...! >_>

It depends on upon you...

This isn't actually the case. Learning how to mod is difficult and the best way to learn is not to beg to be taught or be given lots of help, but to rather start small, try new things, and over the course of years develop your talents. It doesn't depend on us. It depends on you.

I would suggest start making small but good maps, like a map of your house with working doors, etc. (You don't have to release it if you don't want to.) I would also suggest you start making small CON modifications to the enemies of the original game to do things you think are cool.

We'll be here if you have questions, but we won't hold your hand.

http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/Main_Page

[LeoD]

iamaloner, on 11 February 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

I cant wait for the response... Will I be flamed or accepted... Shot or recruited...

You would have been better off by reading some recent threads before starting this one. Unless you are a troll anyway, you should expect this:

[Jimmy]

My best recommendation for you is to figure out what you might be good at. Try taking a crack at all the aspects, 8-bit and 32-bit art, maps, coding, etc and see what you feel comfortable with. Start out with that. I started out coding, and I've since moved onto all aspects of modding, and I've found my niche at 8-bit art. It just depends on how much time and effort you want to put into it.

[rasmus thorup]

I think that the most important thing to have when you mod, is the will to finish it. Especially when you are trying to finish long term projects. Do you think that you have the willpower?

[Mikko]

Fake account?

[Micky C]

To be honest you've picked the wrong engine if you're planning some kind of MMORPG. The multiplayer code is in the middle of being reworked and there's no indication that it'll be finished any time soon, even then it would be designed for about 16 players, I doubt you'll get anywhere near 128 players online, or for that matter I doubt that 128 people would be willing to play your mod over all the other RPGs out there.

Another fly in the ointment is that maps can only be so large, and the larger maps are, the less detailed they have to be. It would be very difficult or impossible to have a very large, realistic-enough-looking map to fit all the quests or whatever you're planning. In fact even if there weren't any limits, simply making that kind of map is an unthinkable amount of work.
The closest thing you can get is possibly this:




It looks large and detailed because of all the trees and hills but all the map resources would have gone into making the terrain, which means you won't have anything left over for towns or whatever you else you want to add. And on the code side I'd imagine coding things like stats that can be increased would be a lot of work.

Like Hendricks said, there's no way you're going to pull of what you're proposing, even if the community helps you. Making a big, ambitious mod as you learning to mod is doomed to failure. On the other hand, if you follow his advice and start off small you'll have a much better chance of ultimately (a few years down the line) reaching your goal. There are a lot of aspects to modding; mapping, coding, art managing that you have to master before you attempt to make a decent mod or TC.

[Hank]

iamaloner, on 11 February 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

Yea, thanks Hank...

I hope you might someone that could help me... I would really like to make some mod that modding comunity would remember and probavly preserve on continue the work of the mod if I am not avalible anymore for the mod/game or if I decide to make other mod or learn modding for others game and that the community continues the development of the mod with or without of my direction or suggestions(supervision)...

Just do as Hendricks266 wrote. Hang out. Get mapster32 and start modding. Post question in the forums. To make a TC you need to establish yourself first. There are no rules to go about it. There is a saying: If you build it, they'll come.

Again ... good luck.

[Danukem]

Of course there are many of us here in the Duke 3D community who know how to do all that stuff in BUILD: MMORG, "kinda open world", etc. and we could easily teach you all of that. But we got bored with it and currently the community is moving in a different direction, so probably you won't get anyone to help you.

We call our new direction: MOCWWNGRPE, and it stands for Massively Offline Closed World With No Gay Role Playing Elements. We feel the lack of RPG elements is actually more realistic, because in real life when you shoot things it doesn't make you go up a level or make your weapon any better, it just makes you a guy who shot things. There is also less stress because you don't have to worry about where to put your stat points or other BS and whether you are building your character wrong. Closed world may not be realistic but it is better because it prevents the player from going to boring places where nothing is happening. And offline is better because other people suck. If they didn't suck, then you would be spending time with them instead of sitting at your computer.

[ReaperMan]

Something smells fishy about this guy...

[Hank]

.... like the whole week with all those new upcoming TCs? (I checked, it ain't my boys playing a prank) It feels like the someone put out the word that the Duke community is joining TC makers instead of them joining the Duke community.

[The Commander]

Mikko_Sandt, on 11 February 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Fake account?

ReaperMan, on 11 February 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Something smells fishy about this guy...

I suspect this to be the truth.

[Mia Max]

DeeperThought, on 11 February 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

Of course there are many of us here in the Duke 3D community who know how to do all that stuff in BUILD: MMORG, "kinda open world", etc. and we could easily teach you all of that. But we got bored with it and currently the community is moving in a different direction, so probably you won't get anyone to help you.

We call our new direction: MOCWWNGRPE, and it stands for Massively Offline Closed World With No Gay Role Playing Elements. We feel the lack of RPG elements is actually more realistic, because in real life when you shoot things it doesn't make you go up a level or make your weapon any better, it just makes you a guy who shot things. There is also less stress because you don't have to worry about where to put your stat points or other BS and whether you are building your character wrong. Closed world may not be realistic but it is better because it prevents the player from going to boring places where nothing is happening. And offline is better because other people suck. If they didn't suck, then you would be spending time with them instead of sitting at your computer.

That comment is gold

BTW: Duke Nukem + MMO = nah
Duke Nukem 3D is an Egoshooter from the first generation and we still play it, because of its gameplay.
RPG stuff? Hmm, ehm, I guess Duke Nukem has already reached the maximum level when he was born.
You can't improve a character that got balls of steel, no way.
All we can do is to give Duke more levels to let him blow the shit out of the alien bastards.
And mods do make this even more funny.

I think there's just one mod that totally changes Duke Nukem 3D might be cool, I mean the Jurassic Park mod by Melusa.

[iamaloner]

This is my first account and everybody that says that its not should deserve a hard smackdown to reality...

Well I want roleplaying mod but without levels and that... Maybe if you use alot of some skills that you get better on it and that you can upgrade weapons by ammo type...

I made few simple maps on mapster32... I would like to know most of tricks in mapster editor and that... I want to have wide knowlegde from mapping, simple or even complex scripting to making art...

As for MMO type game, I would like to have it online... Enemies would be mostly bots and open world would be actualy tons of levels/areas connected together in one way... It would be nice to have 16 to 32 players in one area... But it probavly wouldt reach that much if there were tons of original or similar levels hosted in one or multiple servers...

[The Commander]

How much will you pay me to work on this with you?

My minimum rate is $20 per effect.

[rasmus thorup]

Micky C, on 11 February 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

To be honest you've picked the wrong engine if you're planning some kind of MMORPG. The multiplayer code is in the middle of being reworked and there's no indication that it'll be finished any time soon, even then it would be designed for about 16 players, I doubt you'll get anywhere near 128 players online, or for that matter I doubt that 128 people would be willing to play your mod over all the other RPGs out there.

Another fly in the ointment is that maps can only be so large, and the larger maps are, the less detailed they have to be. It would be very difficult or impossible to have a very large, realistic-enough-looking map to fit all the quests or whatever you're planning. In fact even if there weren't any limits, simply making that kind of map is an unthinkable amount of work.
The closest thing you can get is possibly this:




It looks large and detailed because of all the trees and hills but all the map resources would have gone into making the terrain, which means you won't have anything left over for towns or whatever you else you want to add. And on the code side I'd imagine coding things like stats that can be increased would be a lot of work.

Like Hendricks said, there's no way you're going to pull of what you're proposing, even if the community helps you. Making a big, ambitious mod as you learning to mod is doomed to failure. On the other hand, if you follow his advice and start off small you'll have a much better chance of ultimately (a few years down the line) reaching your goal. There are a lot of aspects to modding; mapping, coding, art managing that you have to master before you attempt to make a decent mod or TC.

Maps doesn't have to be that big. My mod consists of maps that looks a bit like those. Remember that he can include multiple maps.

[iamaloner]

Cody, on 12 February 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

How much will you pay me to work on this with you?

My minimum rate is $20 per effect.

Dude, I wont pay you... I wont do anything commercial... -.-"

I just want to make a mod or standalone mod/game that would maybe involve whole community if possible...

Anyway NO WAY but if you are really dev of Red Alert mod for DN3D then I can say its good ... Dint played it but videos and pictures... Its good...

[thatguy]

iamaloner, on 12 February 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

Dude, I wont pay you... I wont do anything commercial... -.-"

I just want to make a mod or standalone mod/game that would maybe involve whole community if possible...

Anyway NO WAY but if you are really dev of Red Alert mod for DN3D then I can say its good ... Dint played it but videos and pictures... Its good...

People still get paid, even for non-commercial projects.

[iamaloner]

s.b.Newsom, on 12 February 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

People still get paid, even for non-commercial projects.

Well if I start making some complex mod I dont want people that want to get paid to work on my mod... >_>

I want people that would like my mod and that would work with me for fun... Modding should be about fun and not about getting paid and bitchin...

[rasmus thorup]

Could you post some pictures as soon as you have made something iamaloner?

[LeoD]

iamaloner, on 12 February 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

I just want to make a mod or standalone mod/game that would maybe involve whole community if possible...

iamaloner, on 12 February 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

... a hard smackdown to reality...

Your smackdown to reality comes here:
The DN3D community has been in existence since the nineties. Those who have some spare time are usually involved in their own projects. New members are always welcome. But do you really expect that we all have been waiting to jump on the bandwagon of a newbie kid who has just a not so well-thought proposal (hard to call it an idea tbh.) and no references at all?
This only happens in American movies addressed to teenagers.
Imagine going to IBM and asking them to help you build a new type of processor based on an idea you had after fiddling with a mouse and a keyboard. If they talk to you at all they will ask you at least if you know how a computer works ... then what's your answer to convince them?

[High Treason]

Edit: There were a few posts since I started writing...

Hmm... I'm gonna start charging $5 per download of my content then, in fact, I'm going to write a system in CON to implement Adsense into EDuke32 so you're all paying me without knowing it! "I get to fight the battlelord now!!!" - "Buffering Ad... The NEW Toyota Cor..." "FFFFUUUUU!!!"

Anyway, iamaloner, people are generally reluctant to sign onto a project without a lot of progress being made first, the best advice I can give you is to poke around with everyhing, attempt to make something small, maybe a level with a few new elements (new art, sounds and some simple CON code) - this way you can find out what you are good at. You don't necessarily have to release that, it's just to get started. Next, you could try something a bit bigger, a mini-episode perhaps with some new stuff again and release that, this would show people you were capable of using the tools and make them more willing to help in future, especially if you dropped hints you were developing something bigger. From what you would have learned, you could play to your strengths, for example, if you found you were good at level design, you could make the levels quietly, then, when you have reached a reasonable percentage of these, you could post media and say you needed help to finish it.

It's not easy to get into this stuff, I've been there myself, I remember the first time I saw Build (Now Mapster) I was like "WTF? This can't be what the devs used, it's rubbish!" (A bad workman blames his tools) and I'm still learning and then the CON Code, I was like "WTF! This is impossible, this thing doesn't even have a GOTO command in it!" - Then I tried to start a Duke Nukem II MOD and had to cann it because I couldn't finish it and couldn't get the support, I still dream of making it though and one day I may be able to.

Here are some good places to start;

For level editing, have a look at the Infosuite: http://infosuite.duke4.net/index.php
The EDuke32 Wiki has some useful information on this too: http://wiki.eduke32....i/Level_editing

The Wiki has a lot of other useful articles, such as the "DEF File Language" used to add new art to the game, it also has almost every CON command documented as well as some tutorials, the tutorials are incredibly useful as you can look up each command they use and once you've implemented something, you can read up on the commands and poke them around in your implementation - eventually you get bored of this and start experimenting, at which point the "Error in GAME.CON" message is permanently burned into your retina, but it is always possible to get there in the end.

[Hank]

Cody, on 12 February 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

My minimum rate is $20 per effect.

This is too low. The Build-Con-Script is a fucking pain in the arse. One 'effect' took me four hours including testing. Try $1000 for a completed effect, minimum!

iamaloner, on 12 February 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

I want people that would like my mod and that would work with me for fun... Modding should be about fun and not about getting paid and bitchin...

Dude, read my posts again. Speaking as a smartass: Join the community! The community ain't gonna do shit for you. I just joined a week ago. Entry level: Janitor. Hey it's a start.

[LeoD]

High Treason, on 12 February 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

"WTF! This is impossible, this thing doesn't even have a GOTO command in it!"

[iamaloner]

Yea, yea, yea...

See ya... I am going to make a map... Just need some time... It would be simple and that...

Thats all for now...

[iamaloner]

I finished my second map, I was making it like 30 min to 1.5 hours... If you include watching tutorials and trying to make a good map, few fails, corrections... A pain... Especialy some things that annoys me in mapster32 while in for doom map editor there are no problems like strenched textures, sprites, etc... ( i think)...

Anyway on this map Duke will look small... You will see that you are small... -.-" I dosent look like that in map editor when you compare sprites, darn it!!

Heres the download link:

http://www.2shared.c...losedstore.html

[Mia Max]

Well, sprites and textures like doors are both oversized in original.
I know, that's annoying and I also don't know why it was made so.
You will need some experience to learn the correct adjustments are.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Much to learn you have yet.
Study more maps you must.