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True Room over Room  "A truly '├╝ber' feature for classic and Polymer"

User is offline   Helixhorned 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer

#211

View PostMicky C, on 08 July 2011 - 05:43 AM, said:

Why is joining of sectors with different bunchnums not allowed? I created extensions above basically the entire outside area, and all their ceilings have the same height. I'm going to be adjusting their heights a lot and it would be easier if I could join them all together instead of having to select all of them each time.

On a side note, I don't know what I'm going to do with all these layers, it's probably going to be hell trying make parallaxed walls.

It would be legal under the restrictions you mentioned, but I haven't gotten around coding that particular special case.

Hm, that "parallaxed wall" problem is indeed worrisome. Maybe allow having N:1 next{secor,wall} links like in some of Billy Boy's maps? You wouldn't want to be on the "1" side of them, though.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#212

Unfortunately I've never played any of Billy Boy's maps. I can imagine a way of how I could add parallaxed walls, but it would take a very long time and eat up some of my sector/wall counts. I'd hate to have to do it on the other map I was working on which had 7 layers :)

I didn't understand your last sentence, but if that means that the parallax effect can carry down through extensions that'd make things a whole bunch easier. The only place I'll use such parallaxed walls will be on the outer edges of my WGRealms 2 map.
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User is offline   Helixhorned 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer

#213

What I mean is that a whole set of walls having the same (x,y)-endpoints links to one and the same wall on the other side. Billy Boy used that to implement fake RoR, but since having 1:n links wasn't (and isn't) officially sanctioned, this can lead to some other corruption if you aren't careful, usually meaning not to touch the construction afterwards. I'm attaching your 'windows' map treated this way. You'll see that you only need two sectors on the outside which give the parallaxed view. Right now, the only way to achieve the effect is by turning on 'script_expertmode' and tweak the .nextsector/.nextwall fields by hand for every affected wall. Btw, the effect works fine with both classic/Polymost and Polymer.

Attached File(s)


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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#214

There's this thing which is really bugging me and I have no idea how to overcome it. I'm trying to connect the two highlighted sectors, I had to break the TROR link before to make the village, but it keeps saying that I can't have TROR connections between the two components. I can't see any extensions between the two regions so I'm at a loss.

In both cases I'm very reluctant to delete anything because everything's TROR'd to everything else and it'd get messy very fast. Any help from anyone is appreciated http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif


http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/connect.png

And while I'm asking for help, this lone white wall suddenly appeared out of the blue for no reason, and it's passing through all the TROR layers, and I have no idea how to get rid of it :)

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/crimic01/whitewall.png

This post has been edited by Micky C: 11 July 2011 - 05:13 AM

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User is offline   DavoX 

  • Honored Donor

#215

I'm loving this! The only problem besides the masked walls on polymer is that the dynamic lights don't pass from one sector to another in a normal way. They look kinda weird and you can see the seam from one sector to another.
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User is offline   Helixhorned 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer

#216

View PostMicky C, on 11 July 2011 - 05:11 AM, said:

There's this thing which is really bugging me and I have no idea how to overcome it. I'm trying to connect the two highlighted sectors, I had to break the TROR link before to make the village, but it keeps saying that I can't have TROR connections between the two components. I can't see any extensions between the two regions so I'm at a loss.

In both cases I'm very reluctant to delete anything because everything's TROR'd to everything else and it'd get messy very fast. Any help from anyone is appreciated http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif

That message should really read "... TROR or red-wall connections ..." in case you opted to also displace sectors reachable by former red walls. The solution is to break the connection somewhere.

Quote

And while I'm asking for help, this lone white wall suddenly appeared out of the blue for no reason, and it's passing through all the TROR layers, and I have no idea how to get rid of it :)

Uh-oh. Can you trace it to some specific action? Also, can you get in out of your way without affecting other sectors? You might want to analyse it in some more detail. My guess is that it's either a two-walled sector (which I've seen in some maps, but never got to the cause of them) or inner loop (which would be a bit more tedious to get rid of than a lone sector).
edit: An also important piece of information is whether you're getting corruption warnings.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#217

View PostDavoX, on 11 July 2011 - 05:27 AM, said:

I'm loving this! The only problem besides the masked walls on polymer is that the dynamic lights don't pass from one sector to another in a normal way. They look kinda weird and you can see the seam from one sector to another.


From my brief experimentation with polymer lights, they don't pass through extensions at all. And there are times when sectors directly below the player don't get rendered if the player is in a different TROR layer.


View PostHelixhorned, on 11 July 2011 - 10:40 AM, said:

Uh-oh. Can you trace it to some specific action? Also, can you get in out of your way without affecting other sectors? You might want to analyse it in some more detail. My guess is that it's either a two-walled sector (which I've seen in some maps, but never got to the cause of them) or inner loop (which would be a bit more tedious to get rid of than a lone sector).
edit: An also important piece of information is whether you're getting corruption warnings.


I don't believe it happened when I was working on the area, and it's in all but one of my backups so it's been there for a few days. I have no pink text corruption warnings, and I'm unable to move the wall without moving other walls connected to its vertices. I tried deleting stuff then reconnecting it, but that caused 2 other lone white walls to spring up nearby which weren't there before. If I send you the map, do you think you might be able to perform some kind of magic?
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User is offline   Plagman 

  • Former VP of Media Operations

#218

Ugh, yeah; I forgot to propagate lights through TROR! Pretty big oversight, sorry..
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User is offline   DavoX 

  • Honored Donor

#219

LOL! :) don't worry. You're forgiven.
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User is offline   Helixhorned 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer

#220

View PostMicky C, on 11 July 2011 - 04:56 PM, said:

If I send you the map, do you think you might be able to perform some kind of magic?

I'm always curious about such weird stuff.
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User is offline   HJ-kos 

#221

is there any way to make "true" elevator between bunches? using elevators and "floor door" makes a SQUISH!
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User is offline   DavoX 

  • Honored Donor

#222

You mean something like the elevator in the stadium in DNF? A door opens above you and you are risen to the field?
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User is offline   Master Fibbles 

  • I have the power!

#223

There has to be a way to make a lift work with TROR...Maybe I'll try it out when I get home.
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User is offline   HJ-kos 

#224

View PostDavoX, on 15 July 2011 - 09:05 AM, said:

You mean something like the elevator in the stadium in DNF? A door opens above you and you are risen to the field?

not as much, that would be too complex for now. just making simple elevator would do it. i am using simple scheme: lower lever, inside it small "shaft" sector and inside it is "platform" sector. on the upper level there are hole in floor, that "shaft" i mentioned before. platform sector is "floor door" and heights aligned so that when platform reaches "top" it has same height as upper level's floor. ingame when activating "door" and standing on it it squashes player against invisible celling, using elevator instead of floor door does the same thing.
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User is offline   Hank 

#225

never mind

This post has been edited by Hank: 15 July 2011 - 06:22 PM

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User is offline   Master Fibbles 

  • I have the power!

#226

I made a lift in an area with 3 layers and it doesn't move when I am trying to "use" it. I suspect that since the areas don't interact with each other, it doesn't recognize that there is an adjacent sector (albeit in the above layer) that is sticking out. When I create a sector within the same layer that is flush with the ceiling, I get the lift to move but, like is stated above, I get squished.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#227

View PostHJ-kos, on 15 July 2011 - 08:30 AM, said:

is there any way to make "true" elevator between bunches? using elevators and "floor door" makes a SQUISH!


Why are you using the floor door effect as an elevator? There's a perfectly good 'elevator platform up' effect. Unless I'm not understanding what you're trying to say.


View PostMr.Flibble, on 15 July 2011 - 04:51 PM, said:

I made a lift in an area with 3 layers and it doesn't move when I am trying to "use" it. I suspect that since the areas don't interact with each other, it doesn't recognize that there is an adjacent sector (albeit in the above layer) that is sticking out. When I create a sector within the same layer that is flush with the ceiling, I get the lift to move but, like is stated above, I get squished.


I haven't tried it myself, and in past experience, the player can still get squished as through the TROR boundary between upper and lower sectors is a ceiling (mainly because it is in fact a ceiling), but if you want to make an elevator platform up, you're going to need a lower floor and upper floor (I'm not talking about TROR here), as in you're going to have to have a sector adjacent to the elevator in the same layer that has a higher floor than the elevator starts at. Try making this adjacent floor really high up, right below the TROR boundary.

I doubt TROR was really designed with this in mind though.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 16 July 2011 - 01:09 AM

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User is offline   Helixhorned 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer

#228

View PostHJ-kos, on 15 July 2011 - 09:21 AM, said:

not as much, that would be too complex for now. just making simple elevator would do it. i am using simple scheme: lower lever, inside it small "shaft" sector and inside it is "platform" sector. on the upper level there are hole in floor, that "shaft" i mentioned before. platform sector is "floor door" and heights aligned so that when platform reaches "top" it has same height as upper level's floor. ingame when activating "door" and standing on it it squashes player against invisible celling, using elevator instead of floor door does the same thing.

That's certainly possible, but you're better off leaving a bit of headroom between the platform floor and the extended ceiling in the stopped upper position. Also, SE 31 or ST 17 are more suited to the task, but remember that the platform elevators determine the stopping position by an adjacent (red-wall) neighbor sector, so you'll need some kind of pole to mark that. See the attached map for a proof of concept.

Attached File(s)


1

User is offline   HJ-kos 

#229

View PostMicky C, on 16 July 2011 - 01:07 AM, said:

I haven't tried it myself, and in past experience, the player can still get squished as through the TROR boundary between upper and lower sectors is a ceiling (mainly because it is in fact a ceiling), but if you want to make an elevator platform up, you're going to need a lower floor and upper floor (I'm not talking about TROR here), as in you're going to have to have a sector adjacent to the elevator in the same layer that has a higher floor than the elevator starts at. Try making this adjacent floor really high up, right below the TROR boundary.

I doubt TROR was really designed with this in mind though.

did something like that already, but i will try that again, will do more experiments on that topic.

Ran into several other problems

Classic renderer is "okay"
http://i.imgur.com/DRBVQ.png
http://i.imgur.com/tO6pF.png
http://i.imgur.com/IsRMy.png

Polymost fucks up pretty much badly
http://i.imgur.com/5aJ7W.jpg

Polymer is excelent but... this one particular sector suddenly "disappears" when i am directly above it on upper levels. also lower level can be seen through it at some angles (not shown here)
http://i.imgur.com/McGJv.jpg

Here's my map as it is now.
http://filesmelt.com/dl/nnnnn.map
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#230

Polymost is the least supported renderer at the moment so you can expect bugs with that. The classic renderer's glitches are propably there because you have a sector sticking up in the middle of a TROR sector, judging from the photos. Try breaking up the TROR boundary into more sectors.

I agree polymer is by far the best, but I'm experiencing the same "disappearing sector" glitches that you are. I hope it'll be fixed soon, but Plagman did mention that there were some instances where parts of maps aret being drawn and that it's very easy to fix, I hope he's referring to this in particular. I've got a polymer WGRealms 2 user map coming out in 2 months and I'd like it to be relatively glitch free.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 16 July 2011 - 05:57 AM

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User is offline   HJ-kos 

#231

mapping issue:
http://gyazo.com/9a1ec42bdb778d99511bd65ac760686e.png
i need to make that sector white, overlooked it while mapping, but when i press ctrl-del it deletes extensions or how do i call it - it no longer connected to upper and lower (didn't check it) levels, i tried using ctrl-j and ctrl-u, experimenting with adding sectors and stuff, still no luck
i guess i'll delete upper levels and start over, kinda sucks. anyway, how to use that joining command?

This post has been edited by HJ-kos: 16 July 2011 - 06:37 AM

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User is offline   Zaxtor 

#232

As I known of
when you make a sector / bridge etc.

going in zigzag the corners will do hom or slime trail bugs. Like on ur pic.
ROR is fairly new so new things always has down sides.
Probably when it evolve it will improve and let u do zig zags, floating platforms and other complex (non straight) things etc.


Pic 1 (top view doing the slime train like your pic)
Pic 2 (underview doing hom now replaced by black emptiness)
Pic 3 (zigzag bridge top views doing strange fuckups)
Pic 4 (under the zigzag bridge doing like pic 1)
These aren't in mod is in a test map.
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1488/drawbackror.jpg
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#233

View PostHJ-kos, on 16 July 2011 - 06:33 AM, said:

how to use that joining command?


Just select the bottom sector and top sector using right alt, and press ctrl-j. It'll ask you if you want to join the bottom's floor to the top's ceiling or vice versa, naturally in this situation you'd choose the vice versa.
If you hold right ctrl while releasing alt, it'll only select the sector which contains the mouse cursor, and you can hold ' during this process to select additional sectors, or ; to deselect sectors. Experiment.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 16 July 2011 - 06:49 PM

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User is offline   Hank 

#234

this there a way to make this a sticky? http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#235

@Helixhorned
I decided to break the link between two extensions so I could add some floating sector stuff. Is this the only way to do it, or is there a better way? Because I'm trying to rejoin the sector's and it's being very stubborn. I've changed absolutely nothing except adding some sectors, and I've kept the vertices of the boundaries of the sectors on the top and bottom extensions at identical coordinates, so I don't think that's the problem. Can a join option be added to automatically join any sectors in the map which have their floor at the same height as another sector's ceiling?
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User is offline   Helixhorned 

  • EDuke32 Senior Developer

#236

Mapster32 can sandwich a sector in the place of a bunch, just 'extend' one that already exists, and all the work will be done for you. The HOME and END modifiers to AltGr might come in handy here. As for your second question, no, because that's not the only condition that must be met. Outer wall-points have to exactly lined up, for example. Checking for the mutual alignment of each ceiling and floor every time something is moved would just be too fragile.
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User is offline   Muelsa 

  • Bad Mother Fucker

#237

I used TROR to make transparent water and i put the skybox below
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3149/duke0001.th.png

but they are some bugs, I hope it can be solved, I really want to use this for my mod.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4687/duke0000.th.png
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#238

Those bugs shouldn't happen in polymer.

If you want to get rid of those bugs in polymost/classic then you'll need to break up the TROR sector. For example, it looks like you've got a river going out to the ocean, try putting a wall between the river and ocean.
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User is offline   Muelsa 

  • Bad Mother Fucker

#239

View PostMicky C, on 21 July 2011 - 03:01 AM, said:

Those bugs shouldn't happen in polymer.

If you want to get rid of those bugs in polymost/classic then you'll need to break up the TROR sector. For example, it looks like you've got a river going out to the ocean, try putting a wall between the river and ocean.


with polymer, sometimes all the map disappear with this efffect. I will try what you tell me, the submerged area is only one big ssector, it may be the problem
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User is offline   Daedolon 

  • Ancient Blood God

#240

View PostMuelsa, on 21 July 2011 - 02:57 AM, said:

I used TROR to make transparent water and i put the skybox below
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3149/duke0001.th.png


That's amazing, I hope that bug can be fixed or somehow avoided.
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