[Lord Misfit]

Captain Awesome, on 24 May 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

I haven't toyed with this yet, but I think it could be useful to implement a "layers" system, much like photoshop. Like you could make the different levels count as layers, and you could toggle them invisible so you can work on one area without the other clogging up. Don't know if that's viable, or if it makes sense or what.

I would think this concept would be helpful to many mappers, probably myself included. I understand the whole layers principle myself, being a Paint Shop Pro user [since it also takes advantage of layers].

[Helixhorned]

Micky C, on 24 May 2011 - 05:41 AM, said:

When sectors are grayed out, their vertices can still be moved if they're selected with right shift, which makes moving sectors around on different floors very difficult, even impossible when working on more than two or three layers.It's not just the bunch vertices, even standard single sector vertices are moved, is there any way to constrain right shift vertex selection to the confined z-coordinates?

I see that it's annoying, but fixing it isn't completely straightforward (you anticipated that, didn't you?). If only the non-grayed-out wall-points were selected, you could end up in a situation that allowed to separate points that structurally belong together, like the point2 of the nextwall. As a workaround, you can select inner sectors inside your working level loop-by-loop with RCtrl-RShift: that is, RCtrl has to be pressed when RShift is released. Now also with set op support...

Captain Awesome, on 24 May 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

I haven't toyed with this yet, but I think it could be useful to implement a "layers" system, much like photoshop. Like you could make the different levels count as layers, and you could toggle them invisible so you can work on one area without the other clogging up. Don't know if that's viable, or if it makes sense or what.

But this is 3D space, there ain't no 'layers' by themselves! Of course, a set of sectors stacked on top of each other can be seen as consisting of layers, but the system allows for much more general constructions. Have you tried the Ctrl-A 'auto-grayout' feature which makes portions of the map outside of the z range of the currently edited TROR portion of the map uneditable?

[Micky C]

Helixhorned, on 24 May 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

Now also with set op support...

If that means that right-ctrl + right-shift selects all points that are connected with walls and not just one loop, then it'd be a pretty handy feature.

Helixhorned, on 24 May 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

(you anticipated that, didn't you?)

It might seem like we're complaining to some degree, but we're all quite grateful for the whole system you've put in, it's surprisingly intuitive and works quite well

Captain Awesome, on 24 May 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

I haven't toyed with this yet, but I think it could be useful to implement a "layers" system, much like photoshop. Like you could make the different levels count as layers, and you could toggle them invisible so you can work on one area without the other clogging up. Don't know if that's viable, or if it makes sense or what.

But the system that's currently implemented is a system of layers so to speak. I couldn't figure out how to use the TRoR system until I came to realize that. Take a look at the pic below and expand it to full, full size. You'll see that the entire map is a set of layers, with the added bonus that you can make sub layers for water and other things, and you can adjust heights and slopes.

Edit: I hoped that cleared something up. Helixhorned gave some good advice with the ctrl-A 'auto-grayout' feature. You can toggle between the layers with the page up and page down buttons, or by holding the middle mouse button and moving the mouse up and down in side view mode (F3)

[Hendricks266]

Helixhorned, on 24 May 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

But this is 3D space, there ain't no 'layers' by themselves! Of course, a set of sectors stacked on top of each other can be seen as consisting of layers, but the system allows for much more general constructions. Have you tried the Ctrl-A 'auto-grayout' feature which makes portions of the map outside of the z range of the currently edited TROR portion of the map uneditable?

How about some sort of slicing? Like hold a key or combo, then move the mouse up and down and it will show different vertical layers?

[Plagman]

Isn't that exactly what already exists and Micky C just described with the side-view mode?

[Stabs]

would a "alt+ctrl+e" or something similar allow us to place a TROR layer in between layers in a TROR group?

i dont really mind if the heights go a bit funny as a bit of page up/page down fixing is alot more easy than deleting and remaking a ton of sectors

[Helixhorned]

Micky C, on 24 May 2011 - 02:13 PM, said:

It might seem like we're complaining to some degree, but we're all quite grateful for the whole system you've put in, it's surprisingly intuitive and works quite well

No problem, the complaining is perfectly fine with me. After all, the system is only as useful as the mappers get along with it. It's just that I'm well aware of many of the issues, and the reason they exists is that they're NESWTF.

DanM, on 26 May 2011 - 03:43 PM, said:

would a "alt+ctrl+e" or something similar allow us to place a TROR layer in between layers in a TROR group?

i dont really mind if the heights go a bit funny as a bit of page up/page down fixing is alot more easy than deleting and remaking a ton of sectors

That could be intergrated without too much effort, I think.

[Stabs]

Cheers, i guess it could be inserted or it just splits the selected layer horizontally whatever really works, ive come to grips with the limitations and can only really see this as its biggest flaw

However when i used to play around with RoR and polymer making a rooms top and lower half and moving them into each other i was able to create floating diamond shapes when viewed outside the map with noclip on, the floor could even be made see through by making it a null texture and parralaxed, so when polymer RoR support rolls around it should be able to support individual raised red sectors within a TROR bunch, well i hope anyway

[fgsfds]

Helixhorned, are you going to add possibility to join two separate sectors with different count of vertices and without changing position of these sectors?
For example on the screenshots we have two sectors with the same outline but different count of vertices. How to join them in ror?

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[Helixhorned]

empy, on 28 May 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

Helixhorned, are you going to add possibility to join two separate sectors with different count of vertices and without changing position of these sectors?
For example on the screenshots we have two sectors with the same outline but different count of vertices. How to join them in ror?

Insert the vertices manually. The code I have up does in fact check the points for being at the same position and connected to the same neighbours in the two sectors to join (instead of checking the outline or area), there are no plans to rewrite it.

[m210®]

Helixhorned, on 28 May 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:

Insert the vertices manually.

I tried to do this and sectors was joined but they became the misalignment, and now map have 51 errors. any way to correct it?

[Helixhorned]

Thanks for sending me the map, M210. It helped tackling a nasty bug that made TROR joining wrong in all but the simplest cases.

[Gambini]

empy, on 28 May 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

Helixhorned, are you going to add possibility to join two separate sectors with different count of vertices and without changing position of these sectors?
For example on the screenshots we have two sectors with the same outline but different count of vertices. How to join them in ror?

That´s a pretty lazy request.

[necroslut]

I think this deserves front page, not everyone (not even all those who would be interested) reads the editing forums. I didn't see it until now. Really cool!

[DavoX]

Excellent addition!! Fuck yeah!!!! We've waited so long for this!!! Thanks!!!

[fgsfds]

Helixhorned, can you add ability to raise or lower an entire sector or a bunch of sectors with all sprites it contains? It will be useful for joining sectors in ror.

[darkcaleb]

Sorry if i may ask this quistion but, could anyone explain this to me step by step how i can make this ror work in wich mode (3d or 2d) i need to be.

[Helixhorned]

empy, on 03 June 2011 - 04:14 AM, said:

Helixhorned, can you add ability to raise or lower an entire sector or a bunch of sectors with all sprites it contains? It will be useful for joining sectors in ror.

Joining sectors to make a bunch already displaces one component if needed, along with the sprites contained in it.

darkcaleb, on 03 June 2011 - 07:18 AM, said:

Sorry if i may ask this quistion but, could anyone explain this to me step by step how i can make this ror work in wich mode (3d or 2d) i need to be.

For every question that is known to man,
there's often one answer: please RTFM

OK, short answer: Highlight some sectors and press Ctrl-E to make an extension.
Long answer: read every post in this thread. There's no other documentation at this point, but if someone is willing to prettify everything for the wiki, that's certainly welcome.

[fgsfds]

Quote

Joining sectors to make a bunch already displaces one component if needed, along with the sprites contained in it.

But it can't displace other sectors which attached to it.
For example here I have 2 bunches of sectors (underwater and surface). Joining 2 sectors will displace one sector under another, but the rest part will remain in place, so I can't attach it.

Attached thumbnail(s)

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Attached File(s)

•  map.zip (448bytes)
  Number of downloads: 229

[Helixhorned]

The rest will be displaced too (even though it's not highlighted), unless there's a red-wall- or TROR-connection between the two components.

[fgsfds]

Can you show it on map that I attached? When I joining sectors it desplaces only these sectors, the rest parts always remains on a place.

[Helixhorned]

You're right, they weren't displaced because red walls are whited out when highlighting, and the search naturally didn't find the sectors behind those former red walls. It's fixed in the new revision by adding another query.

[fgsfds]

Great. Big thanks.
And one more question. How can I move sectors with ror? If I try to make it, mapster writes: "All sectors of a bunch must be selected".

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[Helixhorned]

Either highlight all sectors for all bunches that get selected, which can lead to a pretty large portion of them, or cut the TROR-connection on some of them manually, with Ctrl-U in 2D mode. Ctrl-TAB can assist you in doing that.

[Micky C]

Is it possible/will be possible in the future so that you can use an SE 13 over a ROR sector to break the connection between the rooms until activated, so as to make it seem like a hole has appeared in the ground? This would be similar to how the SE 13 treats parallaxed ceilings.

Also, I'm having the darnedest time trying to figure out how to make some space under these stairs so that it looks like they're sticking out of the wall.

[Helixhorned]

Having sensible support for all the sector effects is something that I'd like to tackle some time. As for the stairs, maybe it's better to make them sprite-based. TROR isn't really up to such detail modelling.

[Master Fibbles]

To do what you want to do, Micky C, you'd have to make a layer for each step...or just use sprites.

[necroslut]

Micky C, on 26 June 2011 - 04:13 AM, said:

Is it possible/will be possible in the future so that you can use an SE 13 over a ROR sector to break the connection between the rooms until activated, so as to make it seem like a hole has appeared in the ground? This would be similar to how the SE 13 treats parallaxed ceilings.

Couldn't you just put a breakable sprite over it?

[Helixhorned]

Breakable ceilings and floors with SE13 are now supported by TROR. See attachment for an example.

Attached File(s)

•  ceilexpltest.zip (898bytes)
  Number of downloads: 242

[Hank]

Helixhorned, on 26 June 2011 - 03:32 PM, said:

Breakable ceilings and floors with SE13 are now supported by TROR. See attachment for an example.

I just ran the map, again with the latest of todays build.
Thanks for all your work.

added - still can't get it to work. The ceiling looks undamaged viewed from the bottom. The floor is open viewed from the floor above; see image below. How do I get the top portion to look undamaged, before the crack sprite is activated? I tried another crack, no luck. NOT a complained, just a question