[Stabs]

depends if you want polymer or polymost / 8-bit ror

polymost and 8-bit is a whiny little bitch that gets reduced to tears from anything and polymer ror knows no limits, polymer is very hard to break

edit : is this possible in anyway shape or form?

[Fox]

If SOS supports Lunatic Fring, that should be easy.

[Stabs]

yeh i dunno that was all vertical, i dont think eduke plays nice with SoS on the horizontal factor

[Master Fibbles]

It probably could be done...just would be buggy as hell.

[Zaxtor]

Reminds of those corridor I did in my weird levels. A way continue but if you go around a wall you don't see the other side of the way. You see a wall while otherside of the wall is a way.

[Carl Winslow]

it's already been done. check out the map 2bizzare. one section actually has a room that does that, and does so nearly flawlessly.

[Helixhorned]

 DeeperThought, on 28 September 2011 - 09:38 PM, said:

I need a way to be able to detect, using CON script, whether a given sector's floor or ceiling has a TROR extension. It would be nice if it was something simple like a bit in the floor/ceiling stat (it doesn't matter that the bit won't actually control it).

 Plagman, on 29 September 2011 - 01:57 AM, said:

Bit 10 of the floor/ceiling statnum should tell you if it's part of a TROR bunch.

No, don't use bit 1<<10. There's a sector[].bunchnum field which you can check for being greater or equal 0. Cstat can be accidentally tampered by the CON code, while .bunchnum accesses the saved-off value. A bit paranoid, I know...

EDIT: sector[].floorbunchnum/.ceilingbunchnum, of course...

[Helixhorned]

 Fox, on 28 September 2011 - 04:52 PM, said:

Heck, I still think you should be able to view everything as layers. For example I assign the bottom of the ROR as Layer 1 and top of a ROR and the roof of surrounding buildings as Layer 2.

Otherwise it's nearby impossible to work, since my brain lacks processing power to work with multiple RORs in ortogonal view.

Have you tried the various Ctrl-A (gray out plain sectors) and Ctrl-Alt-A (don't display gray sectors) combinations?

 DanM, on 28 September 2011 - 07:56 PM, said:

I seem to recall you mentioning a slicer tool that allows you to dissect multiple sectors with a single line, how do i use that?

and the squish code, that mite have to be modified to not squish when going between some TROR portals or is that just something that cant be helped?

Dissect?! Never heard of such a thing working in Mapster. I think it might have been some experimental code by TX at some stage, though.
edit: about the squish, can you PM me a part of a map that clearly shows this behaviour?

 DanM, on 29 September 2011 - 03:30 AM, said:

edit : is this possible in anyway shape or form?

Only one way to find out. My prediction: classic will underdraw ("HOM"), Polymer will overdraw.

[Danukem]

 Helixhorned, on 29 September 2011 - 09:02 AM, said:

No, don't use bit 1<<10. There's a sector[].bunchnum field which you can check for being greater or equal 0. Cstat can be accidentally tampered by the CON code, while .bunchnum accesses the saved-off value. A bit paranoid, I know...

Now I'm confused. I already tried using Plagman's suggestion and it seems to work fine. I am using "ifvarand sector[THISACTOR].floorstat 1024".

If I try "ifvarg sector[THISACTOR].bunchnum -1" I get a compiler error.

[Helixhorned]

See the edit above.

[Danukem]

 Helixhorned, on 29 September 2011 - 09:20 AM, said:

See the edit above.

Still won't compile

ifvarg sector[THISACTOR].floorbunchnum -1

error: symbol `floorbunchnum' is not recognized.

[Stabs]

oh lebuild has something similar, divide sector by line, was useful when trying to make point lights "cast shadows" i just know it would shit it pants at a tror map now and was a very useful feature

ill put together a map tommoro, to drunkerered now

i will have to check out this area 52

[Kyanos]

Is there a way to work clipshapes into a TROR sector? It doesn't want to work for me.

[Plagman]

 DavoX, on 29 September 2011 - 03:19 AM, said:

Is it hard to implement ROR the way Blood does it?

That was what TX's SE-based ROR was and there's no reason to use that over TROR.

 DanM, on 29 September 2011 - 03:30 AM, said:

edit : is this possible in anyway shape or form?

 DanM, on 29 September 2011 - 08:29 AM, said:

yeh i dunno that was all vertical, i dont think eduke plays nice with SoS on the horizontal factor

Look at Tier Drops, all the four central rooms share the same space and are connected by a hallway that goes around. It should be possible and work fine in all three render modes; you just need to make sure that you split the sectors correctly. That worked in classic DOS Duke, there's no need for TROR or anything.

[Helixhorned]

 DeeperThought, on 29 September 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

Still won't compile

ifvarg sector[THISACTOR].floorbunchnum -1

error: symbol `floorbunchnum' is not recognized.

Ah, sorry! It's "floorbunch" and "ceilingbunch", without the "num". That's what you get when posting in a hurry.

 Drek, on 29 September 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

Is there a way to work clipshapes into a TROR sector? It doesn't want to work for me.

They should work independently, but this hasn't been tested at all. One thing is pretty clear already, though: the clipping is only active for the sector the sprite is contained in, and doesn't extend to its vertical neighbors, regardless of whether it's done with the usual clipping box or a clip shape.


About "interesting" geometry in BUILD: keep in mind that it's an error for a sector to intersect itself. Functions like inside() will get confused and you'll get stuck in the doubly-covered part, for example. Thus, when volumes intersect each other, there should be separate sectors.

[Helixhorned]

OK, this is embarrassing. Revisions prior to r2050 had the sector[].ceilingbunch/sector[].floorbunch return the values of the .extra member due to a copy&paste error. I guess you're now totally discouraged to use my solution, DT.

[Plagman]

 Helixhorned, on 30 September 2011 - 02:16 AM, said:

About "interesting" geometry in BUILD: keep in mind that it's an error for a sector to intersect itself. Functions like inside() will get confused and you'll get stuck in the doubly-covered part, for example. Thus, when volumes intersect each other, there should be separate sectors.

Yep, that's exactly what I was referring to by "splitting sectors correctly". In addition of sectors intersecting themselves, you also never want to see part of a sector that intersects another sector you're also seeing (so you have to split around the corners and so on). Assuming you do that, all kinds of cool impossible geometry should be doable without gameplay or rendering errors.

[Kyanos]

 Helixhorned, on 30 September 2011 - 02:16 AM, said:

They should work independently, but this hasn't been tested at all. One thing is pretty clear already, though: the clipping is only active for the sector the sprite is contained in, and doesn't extend to its vertical neighbors, regardless of whether it's done with the usual clipping box or a clip shape.

That's similar to this situation as well, if a model extends outside of a TROR sector it disappears when you can't see the "parent" sector. Anyways you probably knew that, as I am posting I guess it's a build issue more than TROR.
I made a working clipshape bridge over TROR water.

[Stabs]

 Plagman, on 30 September 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

Yep, that's exactly what I was referring to by "splitting sectors correctly". In addition of sectors intersecting themselves, you also never want to see part of a sector that intersects another sector you're also seeing (so you have to split around the corners and so on). Assuming you do that, all kinds of cool impossible geometry should be doable without gameplay or rendering errors.

polymer sorta of does that hallway right, and then you add lights and its fubar, flickering floors and shit.

[Danukem]

 DanM, on 30 September 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

polymer sorta of does that hallway right, and then you add lights and its fubar, flickering floors and shit.

Are the lights fucked up in mapster, or only in game?

[Plagman]

Lights should work on map geometry, but models and sprites will get lit regardless of their sectors if they're near any light that shares the same position. None of what I describe should cause flickering, so I guess attach the map?

[Stabs]

oh just a test map i never bothered saving, ill attempt it again soon, the effect is very intriguing

[Stabs]

Well here is an example of the slicer tool, it would make mapster even cooler, it is cooler than lebuild right?

[DavoX]

 Plagman, on 29 September 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

That was what TX's SE-based ROR was and there's no reason to use that over TROR.

Actually there is one: You don't have to worry about overlapping lines, sectors, or making layers or anything, because those are separate sectors that don't overlap in 2D mode

I know it looks and sounds better from a programmer's point of view, but it's almost a nightmare for a level designer.

[Hendricks266]

 Plagman, on 29 September 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

That was what TX's SE-based ROR was and there's no reason to use that over TROR.

Also, retrofitting.

[Micky C]

 Helixhorned, on 28 September 2011 - 12:43 PM, said:

You can't. Recall that a bunch is a collection of N ceilings and M floors (N, M >= 1) so that the ceilings cover the same planar area as the floors. Unlinking only a subset of the ceilings or floors from a bunch would invalidate this requirement except for special cases.

Perhaps when you find some time, could you program a special case or two? The method you suggested isn't really practical for more complicated TROR or areas that are almost finished, not to mention it takes a lot of time to do.

 DavoX, on 03 October 2011 - 12:17 PM, said:

Actually there is one: You don't have to worry about overlapping lines, sectors, or making layers or anything, because those are separate sectors that don't overlap in 2D mode

I know it looks and sounds better from a programmer's point of view, but it's almost a nightmare for a level designer.

But don't forget that you can build areas separately, as though you were making them for an SE based ROR system, and then join them using the join tool at the last minute to make TROR. It's actually surprisingly easy to do as the function does all the moving and joining work for you.

[Jimmy]

I find the whole system very confusing, and personally would prefer a system that works more like the old one (though without it's inherent issues.) However, I'm not going to bitch about it, but I still think TROR could be a little more userfriendly. I was mindfucked trying to use it.

[DavoX]

 Micky C, on 03 October 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:

But don't forget that you can build areas separately, as though you were making them for an SE based ROR system, and then join them using the join tool at the last minute to make TROR. It's actually surprisingly easy to do as the function does all the moving and joining work for you.

Let me guess... you can't unjoin the sectors if you want to modify it agan comfortably, right?

[TerminX]

You can unjoin them if you want, and you can set the editor to only display stuff within a certain range of coordinates on the z axis, allowing you to isolate a particular layer in your TROR construction.

[DavoX]

Yeah that's what I said, complicated