[Spirrwell]

The Dukenator, on 14 May 2011 - 06:25 AM, said:

Oh? Mine explaining where?

He's talking about footage from the demo elsewhere, like PAX. I hate to admit that he is right in that aspect, but I still agree with you that it's a potential bad idea to post.

[DN4EVR]

Spirrwell, on 14 May 2011 - 06:29 AM, said:

He's talking about footage from the demo elsewhere, like PAX. I hate to admit that he is right in that aspect, but I still agree with you that it's a potential bad idea to post.

Post here or in general anywhere on the net?

[The Dukenator]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 06:26 AM, said:

Review sites show photos of review demos they get all the time. And if people copy those pictures and edit/post them on their blogs it's fair use. This was a demo video but imo it's not much different really.

Actually, it depends on the source where the original photo/video came from.

[DN4EVR]

The Dukenator, on 14 May 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:

Actually, it depends on the source where the original photo/video came from.

Not unless it's the reviwers/etc leaking it...if it's some kids copying videos/pics off of a review site and using them or taping a demo booth it's fair use.

[The Dukenator]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 06:33 AM, said:

Not unless it's the reviwers/etc leaking it...if it's some kids copying videos/pics off of a review site and using them or taping a demo booth it's fair use.

Fair use or not, claiming that you own the items and not be the copyright holder is illegal. Every place in the world has their own way to dealing with copyrights.


I see we have moved away from piracy and got into discussing copyright.

[Spirrwell]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 06:31 AM, said:

Post here or in general anywhere on the net?

Nice question. If I say it's a bad idea to post anywhere, you'll pin me in the majority vs minority argument. If I say it's just a bad idea to post here, you can call me hypocrite.

My stand point has been, that it's a bad idea to spread the word that it has been leaked.

[DN4EVR]

The Dukenator, on 14 May 2011 - 06:36 AM, said:

Fair use or not, claiming that you own the items and not be the copyright holder is illegal. Every place in the world has their own way to dealing with copyrights.


I see we have moved away from piracy and got into discussing copyright.

I don't think they ever said(the video uploaders) that it was their content.

Spirrwell, on 14 May 2011 - 06:37 AM, said:

Nice question. If I say it's a bad idea to post anywhere, you'll pin me in the majority vs minority argument. If I say it's just a bad idea to post here, you can call me hypocrite.

My stand point has been, that it's a bad idea to spread the word that it has been leaked.

I actually just asked to clarify, not to trap you on the issue.

Also my standpoint is and has been that stopping leak talk on GBX and youtube links here won't stop anything.......it will maybe prevent less than 4% of pirates from finding out, and many of them will eventually find out elsewheres anyways.

[The Dukenator]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 06:38 AM, said:

I don't think they ever said(the video uploaders) that it was their content.

True. They didn't, but doesn't mean that they copyright holders won't have it taken down.
This why Youtube removes video, audio from video because of claims by copyright holders. Its a fucking mess.

I used to belong to an Iron Maiden bootleg site, but their now defunct as I haven't seen it for a few years. They got shut down due to having bootlegs on their site.

I gotten banned for posting a link to it on 3DR back in 2007.

[DN4EVR]

The Dukenator, on 14 May 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

True. They didn't, but doesn't mean that they copyright holders won't have it taken down.
This why Youtube removes video, audio from video because of claims by copyright holders. Its a fucking mess.

That's not what I was fully adddressing here, which was(from the beginning) that links to said videos(fair use imO) posted here wouldn't be illegal or put the site into a position to be sued by GBX/etc, and that it wouldn't prevent the leak much if at all by such being done.

The Dukenator, on 14 May 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

I used to belong to an Iron Maiden bootleg site, but their now defunct as I haven't seen it for a few years. They got shut down due to having bootlegs on their site.

I gotten banned for posting a link to it on 3DR back in 2007.

There's a BIG difference, though between a site hosting illegal copyrighted content, and a forum link to some demo video footage.

[Spirrwell]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 06:42 AM, said:

That's not what I was fully adddressing here, which was(from the beginning) that links to said videos(fair use imO) posted here wouldn't be illegal or put the site into a position to be sued by GBX/etc, and that it wouldn't prevent the leak much if at all by such being done.

That doesn't make it the right thing to do now does it? It's still a kick to Gearbox that it exists.

[DN4EVR]

Spirrwell, on 14 May 2011 - 06:45 AM, said:

That doesn't make it the right thing to do now does it? It's still a kick to Gearbox that it exists.

The site is still not legally liable for it, and IMO the fact that GBX/Randy is basically buttering up and taking advantage of Yatta makes me :facepalm: and pity him/the mod even more. I like Duke as much as the next guy, and would kill to get what he's going to get in on....but I wouldn't take the swag if they made me go against my principals in such a way.

P.S. I love GAMES, not game publishers. Most of them, imbo, are greedy scavengers that sit on old titles and ips to make a buck or to inconvenience the gamer community at large, and only throw us a few bones every so often to keep us complacent. I mean big publishers btw, not indie ones.

[The Dukenator]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 06:42 AM, said:

There's a BIG difference, though between a site hosting illegal copyrighted content, and a forum link to some demo video footage.

One video, I have, wasn't acquired illegally as it came from the official Download 2007 concert site. They allowed you to download the entire webcast if you had missed the live broadcast.


Companies don't always release demo videos. IGN did for the BioShock demo as an alternative to users who couldn't run the demo on their PC and wanted to see the gameplay in it.

[Spirrwell]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 06:48 AM, said:

The site is still not legally liable for it, and IMO the fact that GBX/Randy is basically buttering up and taking advantage of Yatta makes me :facepalm: and pity him/the mod even more. I like Duke as much as the next guy, and would kill to get what he's going to get in on....but I wouldn't take the swag if they made me go against my principals in such a way.

He's not taking advantage, he's asked for respect, that's something that almost everyone wants, so how the hell can you blame him? The fact that you're okay with all of this is insane. What I get from you is that as long as it's not illegal to post it, it's okay to hurt Gearbox even more by posting it.

[DN4EVR]

Spirrwell, on 14 May 2011 - 06:52 AM, said:

He's not taking advantage, he's asked for respect, that's something that almost everyone wants, so how the hell can you blame him? The fact that you're okay with all of this is insane. What I get from you is that as long as it's not illegal to post it, it's okay to hurt Gearbox even more by posting it.

He doesn't want respect, he wants blind loyalty....look at the GBX forums situation to see what I mean. Lucky his company doesn't own this forum or we'd all be banned by now. Also yes, I follow the law, not someone else's moral set. I'm strongly anti-corporate in this regard.

Also c'mon here...a few gameplay videos aren't going to cause the game to flop......or even suffer major losses. If you think they will then I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

[Spirrwell]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 06:55 AM, said:

He doesn't want respect, he wants blind loyalty....look at the GBX forums situation to see what I mean. Lucky his company doesn't own this forum or we'd all be banned by now. Also yes, I follow the law, not someone else's moral set. I'm strongly anti-corporate in this regard.

Also c'mon here...a few gameplay videos aren't going to cause the game to flop......or even suffer major losses. If you think they will then I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

I didn't say that it would suffer major because of it, but every single loss it still a little stab at Gearbox. I have a difference of opinion that Randy wants blind loyalty, but that's opinions, so that's not an argument.

So you're just an average person with bad morality. Okay, now I understand.

[DN4EVR]

Spirrwell, on 14 May 2011 - 06:58 AM, said:

I didn't say that it would suffer major because of it, but every single loss it still a little stab at Gearbox. I have a difference of opinion that Randy wants blind loyalty, but that's opinions, so that's not an argument.

So you're just an average person with bad morality. Okay, now I understand.

differing morality doesn't mean it's bad morality........also brown nosing much?

I could say the same thing about your piracy btw.

[Mad Max RW]

Spirrwell, on 14 May 2011 - 06:58 AM, said:

So you're just an average person with bad morality. Okay, now I understand.

On the other hand, a person can easily interpret your thought process as blind fanboyism with no common sense. You admit to being a pirate then defend the censorship of discussion? But let's not get sidetracked with personal attacks. Gearbox is acting like bullies here, let's not sink to their level.

[Spirrwell]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 07:00 AM, said:

differing morality doesn't mean it's bad morality........also brown nosing much?

I could say the same thing about your piracy btw.

No I'm not brown nosing Gearbox. I'm showing my respect for them and more specifically, Duke Nukem.

I'm a pirate because I don't have money. Also, this is the one game I have the most respect for.

[DN4EVR]

Spirrwell, on 14 May 2011 - 07:01 AM, said:

No I'm not brown nosing Gearbox. I'm showing my respect for them and more specifically, Duke Nukem.

yes you are....again this is imo.

Mad Max RW, on 14 May 2011 - 07:01 AM, said:

But let's not get sidetracked with personal attacks. Gearbox is acting like bullies here, let's not sink to their level.

agreed

[Spirrwell]

Mad Max RW, on 14 May 2011 - 07:01 AM, said:

On the other hand, a person can easily interpret your thought process as blind fanboyism with no common sense. You admit to being a pirate then defend the censorship of discussion and videos? But let's not get sidetracked with personal attacks. Gearbox is acting like bullies here, let's not sink to their level.

I guess I could say that you're right. but I'm only trying to show my respect towards Gearbox and Duke Nukem, not as a fanboy.

[The Dukenator]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 06:55 AM, said:

Also c'mon here...a few gameplay videos aren't going to cause the game to flop......or even suffer major losses. If you think they will then I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

I remember when 3DR shutdown, some ex-devs released gameplay footage/screens online.
It was when we saw more shit of DNF than before. Later, they were taken offline and we haven't talked about the leaked footage much. We were wondering about the future of Duke & 3DR, then Gearbox comes along.

Spirrwell, on 14 May 2011 - 07:01 AM, said:

I'm a pirate because I don't have money. Also, this is the one game I have the most respect for.

So you do know about abandonware?

[Mad Max RW]

Spirrwell, on 14 May 2011 - 07:01 AM, said:

I'm a pirate because I don't have money. Also, this is the one game I have the most respect for.

How do we know that's true? Since you're the only admitted pirate in this discussion who's to say you aren't the source of the leak?

[Spirrwell]

Mad Max RW, on 14 May 2011 - 07:04 AM, said:

How do we know that's true? Since you're the only admitted pirate in this discussion who's to say you aren't the source of the leak?

Ha! That's funny. What a great story!

News Headline: Fifteen year old leaks the Duke Nukem Forever Demo!

[DN4EVR]

The Dukenator, on 14 May 2011 - 07:04 AM, said:

I remember when 3DR shutdown, some ex-devs released gameplay footage/screens online.
It was when we saw more shit of DNF than before. Later, they were taken offline and we haven't talked about the leaked footage much. We were wondering about the future of Duke & 3DR, then Gearbox comes along.

Yes, we're lucky that they came along...but if it wouldn't have been them it would've been someone else eventually. The IP of Duke is THAT good to not sample every so often. Also 3DR released those media AFTER the game flopped not before.

For what it's worth, I owe my thanks more to 3DR keeping it alive for so long and the Duke for being so awesome than anyone at GBX.

[Spirrwell]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 07:06 AM, said:

For what it's worth, I owe my thanks more to 3DR keeping it alive for so long and the Duke for being so awesome than anyone at GBX.

Me too, I think the publisher is an asshole when they decided to help Gearbox and not 3DRealms, but I still thank Gearbox for stepping in and not letting Duke completely die.

Opps, almost forgot to mention the people that kept working on Duke after the death of Duke Nukem Forever at 3DRealms.

Edit: Triptych right?

[The Dukenator]

DN4EVR, on 14 May 2011 - 07:06 AM, said:

Yes, we're lucky that they came along...but if it wouldn't have been them it would've been someone else eventually. The IP of Duke is THAT good to not sample every so often. Also 3DR released those media AFTER the game flopped not before.

For what it's worth, I owe my thanks more to 3DR keeping it alive for so long and the Duke for being so awesome than anyone at GBX.

Btw, some of the ex-devs wouldn't let the dream die.
George worked out a deal so they could continue to work on it from their own houses while 3DR was fighting Take 2 in court. Then Gearbox came in.

About the leaked footage, its hosted here on Duke4.net, but it may be outdated now. I also have the same footage uploaded on a file storage site.


@Spirrell They work for Gearbox, I believe.

[Mad Max RW]

Spirrwell, on 14 May 2011 - 07:06 AM, said:

Ha! That's funny. What a great story!

News Headline: Fifteen year old leaks the Duke Nukem Forever Demo!

The dude who hacked into Valve's servers and leaked Half LIfe 2 was about the same age.

[The Dukenator]

Mad Max RW, on 14 May 2011 - 07:16 AM, said:

The dude who hacked into Valve's servers and leaked Half LIfe 2 was about the same age.

Speaking of which, this happened: http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-13394968

[DN4EVR]

Mad Max RW, on 14 May 2011 - 07:16 AM, said:

The dude who hacked into Valve's servers and leaked Half LIfe 2 was about the same age.

His name wouldn't happen to be Zer0 Cool, would it?

[Spirrwell]

Mad Max RW, on 14 May 2011 - 07:16 AM, said:

The dude who hacked into Valve's servers and leaked Half LIfe 2 was about the same age.

Really? DAMNIT! Someone my age is smarter than me? Oh what the fuck!? No I didn't leak the demo. I don't know how I'd prove that to you.