[Nukester10]

I'd just like to mention something I've recently noticed about my Rep on here.It happens to be a lousy one at this time,due to some member(s) on here.Who keep giving me thumbs down to almost all my posts or replies to other posts I've made.It's a lousy(-19)at this time and I don't think that's really fair.To begin with,whomever is to blame for this BS is acting out very,boldly/selfishly and maybe you should step down from you're high horse you've placed yourself upon for five minutes and read more into it.

First of all everyone knows I'm a Newbie on here,I'm just asking questions to things I don't really understand and I'm trying to learn more.If this happens to offend some of you,then I really feel sorry for you.

I'm not just speaking for myself either,over the last few months I myself have also contributed various tutorials on Duke 4 that may or may not be of some use to someone else who doesn't have the answers to the questions you yourself may actually find useful down the road someday.All I'm doing is trying to simplify the understanding of various tutorials by asking questions,so that I and everyone else can use to they're best advantage and be as creative as they want.If you think about this anymore you might also understand too that if I ask the questions to problems others may be to afraid to ask then maybe you guys who are smarter or think you're smarter then anyone else,may just end up getting all the other Newbies to follow my posts instead of you more advanced guys having to complain all the time about repeating things over and over and over again.

Ever think about that?

And now that I've been offended by what I believe to be an unjust feedback rating.If you don't like what I just said, then don't read my posts any longer and just leave someone else who finds this information in my posts to be of some use to themselves so they can appreciate them even more and possibly pass it on to someone else who can also use it to they're advantage.

[bullerbullerseven]

Don't worry about the downvotes. It's probably just one fucker that keeps doing it, you can ask TX, he knows it. But he might not tell you. I kept getting downvoted by someone, then i but the guys that i thought it was on my ignore list, and for some reason i don't get those downvotes anymore...
And i were banned from voting lol.

[Nukester10]

Jhect, on 18 April 2011 - 01:57 PM, said:

Don't worry about the downvotes. It's probably just one fucker that keeps doing it, you can ask TX, he knows it. But he might not tell you. I kept getting downvoted by someone, then i but the guys that i thought it was on my ignore list, and for some reason i don't get those downvotes anymore...
And i were banned from voting lol.

Well,where all on here in the same boat.Just learning and passing on what we've learned to the next guy or gal who could use it.At least,that's what I think where supposed to be doing.I've been around "Highhorse"people before outside the net as well and they're just a pain in the ass to deal with too.Believe me.Because they expect everyone to have ESP or be already set at the same high standards as themselves as soon as they come through the door.They need to realize this always isn't so in real life.They especially hate it too when people start asking questions they probably already have the answers to as well.This attitude by some is just so damn distracting and disrespectful.Not only to the Newbs but Vets as well and I thought it was about time somebody spoke on this BS because like I said,"We're all just trying to learn something new here".

[Master Fibbles]

You know, whining isn't going to help your reputation right?
Reputation is based on productive and helpful posts. Just looking around at the posts you were downvoted on, you aren't being helpful and your questions aren't exactly unanswered in other places. Sure, you are new, and maybe you should be given some slack, but there is a search function and google works too.

[MrBlackCat]

I just read all of your posts. (Nukester10)

I don't know if I understand the situation, but I will give my reactionary view. I read all the Duke Mod stuff although I do not participate or ever play with eDuke or HRP. I have done this since it was started. Actually I have Duke with HRP running on this machine on an SD card... I just don't play it often.

Anyway... you have a lot of energy and a lot of questions which can be good sometimes. Not everyone wants to try to bring everyone else up to speed though. Not everyone wants a teacher role just because they know the material in other words. Some of these guys have been doing this stuff for so many years... it is amazing to me how long they have stayed with this... I can't speak for them, but if I had been doing something as long as they have been doing eDuke32 and HRP, I think I would want to spend most of my precious time learning rather than teaching. There is SO much to know at this point... and I am sure a fair bit still to learn.

The best teachers learn from their students in most cases... my overall impression from reading all those threads and posts is this... To me, as someone who is not involved with Duke Modifications, you do speculations too far beyond your current knowledge in some instances. As an outsider, it looks like this metaphor: "So doctor, if we operate on the patient, but lower the room temp the 40, don't you think there would be lower chance of infection?" The point being that some things are impracticality though based in some logical possibility.

I hope you don't feel attacked... this is just my view. Maybe some others might come in and offer their views and something could be learned from it.

Looking at your last post here, I have to say I don't agree... It is my opinion you are not in the same boat with these guys. You are new and enthusiastic, but a lot of these guys are hard core and tempered with patience you don't often find on the net. They seem to almost never be concerned with much other than "fixing this" or "improving that" and so on... almost like they "don't have time" for arguing or getting irritated at one another... their focus stays amazingly logical even in the face of confrontation. The ones who lack this characteristic have come and gone... and continue to.

You then went on to say "Because they expect everyone to have ESP or be already set at the same high standards as themselves as soon as they come through the door."
I don't think this is fair to these guys... I know you aren't talking about everyone because people I would not have expected to, have treated you with more openness that I have seen in the past.

Then you said this "They need to realize this always isn't so in real life." Actually, "they" don't need to do anything. Again, for an "outsider" with a lot of enthusiasm, I think they have been fairly welcoming. You have a lot to learn about this stuff... but I think you do ask some questions that could have been looked up or experimented out of with more time and patience.

Again, I don't want to sound like I am trying to speak for "them" as a group, but I have "known" these guys since the beginning of eDuke and HRP and all Duke Mods. (they don't know me) as with anyone, their time is very valuable to them, so from my perspective, asking should be not the last resort, but at least after you have tried to find more of the answers yourself.

In closing, your negatives? I don't know. Must have made someone mad as your posts don't seem overly aggressive for the most part, but I can see where some of them might be a little abrasive.

I could be off... but I saw this thread and had the time to check... and right or wrong, good or bad, it is my perspective, with my current level of understanding. I hope it is constructive for you... but remember, I could be "wrong" as I am suggesting what the views of others might be.

A final thought... maybe this is one of those cases where "one of the guys" resents someone who thinks and acts like they are "one of the guys" before they really are.

Good luck with your modding...

MrBlackCat

[Nukester10]

Even without not being entirely sure of the true situation.I definatly appreciate you going through all the trouble of reading all of my posts beforehand and I Thank You for that.I guess in the back of my mind I was hoping other newbies such as myself would follow suit.

Quote

"The best teachers learn from their students in most cases"

Yes,I'm sure many times this to be the case and I also realize not everyone wants to play the teacher role at the same time as well.But you can't have it both ways if your setting forth a supposedly productive environment only to be actually charading it's true vision overall.This makes things most difficult in the educational realm for most students of any level.

Quote

"The point being that some things are impracticality though based in some LOGICAL POSSIBILITY."

Yes, that phrase "logical possibility"rings so true of myself I suppose.In an energetic and enthusiastic sense as you mentioned, for some others unfortunately not the case and this makes things so very trying every now and then for me to understand THIS way of thinking and I'm finally learning where I stand in the reality of these matters.

Quote

"but I think you do ask some questions that could have been looked up or experimented out of with more time and patience."

Yes,I do tend to seem a lack of impatience I suppose to some,this all most likely falls under my clinging to the"logical possibility's"side of things rather then leaning in the other direction of impractical behavior,from my point of view again of course.

Quote

"maybe this is one of those cases where "one of the guys" resents someone who thinks and acts like they are "one of the guys" before they really are."

This is unfortunately, obviously the true matter of the situation and I will also furthermore tread so lightly on my keystrokes from now on as to avoid these ever so recurring unfortunate mishaps.

Thank You for replying, MrBlackCat,

Nukester10

[VinsaneOne]

I hope you don't take it all too personally from the one or two members downvoting your posts. It means nothing more than someone having fun clicking the minus button and really has nothing to do with you as a person. I can understand how you feel about it though, and I thought your post deserved a hefty plus just for the fact you're still on the forums. Hang in there buddy!

[CruX]

Mr.Flibble, on 18 April 2011 - 02:52 PM, said:

You know, whining isn't going to help your reputation right?
Reputation is based on productive and helpful posts. Just looking around at the posts you were downvoted on, you aren't being helpful and your questions aren't exactly unanswered in other places. Sure, you are new, and maybe you should be given some slack, but there is a search function and google works too.

This is true for the most part, but I looked at his posts in the modding section, and some of the downvotes he got were completely unnecessary, particularly in this thread where he was staying relatively decent.

@Nukester10: I think some of the reason behind the downvotes is the fact that you were spamming a lot of "help me" threads in a forum where they didn't belong. Micky C gave you some pretty good advice in the last thread you made, and I'd suggest you take it to heart. If you've got another question, you should probably post it in this forum. Still though, I don't think asking for help should warrant a downvote, so I went through and upvoted a few of the posts (where it seemed appropriate, of course).

[Yatta]

I don't like that some people are being voted down simply on the basis of a disagreement that another forum user has with their post.

At first I was neutral about the whole rating thing because, despite being harsh at times, I understood that it serves to get people to be nice to each other--but now I'm not so sure. Anyway, if you guys keep making reasonable arguments I'm sure the admins in charge who are in favor of the system (at least in terms of it appearing under your avatar) may change their mind about how it is used.

Also, I feel my 12 positive votes are totally undeserved. I haven't said anything praiseworthy in a while. I guess I'm getting preferential treatment for being an admin here, heh.

[blackharted]

Nukester10, on 18 April 2011 - 01:51 PM, said:

Non stop whining

Dude just calm the fuck down. People here just love to new guys a hard time.

It happens to us all.

Do not worry about the rep thingy ok?

From 18 April 2011 - 01:51 PM:

Don't worry about the downvotes. And i were banned from voting lol.

This.

From 18 April 2011 - 01:51 PM:

And i were banned from voting lol.

Ye were, were ye? Are you from York or something? LOL

[MrBlackCat]

Well I am glad you (Nukester10) didn't take my post as an attack... that is a good sign. People are both liked and hated for being different than a perceived norm.
Kind of the point to my post was to demonstrate that you are different than "the group" from my perspective relative to your questions etc. I have seen quite a few people slowly work their way into the mod community, but the ones that dive in (especially from the high-dive) don't usually stay unless they slow down a little and don't make so many waves.

You might be the best modder, with awesome ideas, but it doesn't matter if your approach is incompatible.

Even IF large groups of people hate you, that doesn't even mean there is anything wrong with eithers actions in my opinion. Incompatibility precludes being good at something, being right about something and so on. I am not saying to suck up to anyone either because inexperienced views are not valued by the experienced.

I agree with Yatta though... he doesn't deserve his rating. (hehehe, just kidding) I take my rating as a compliment and I am very surprised by it.

Like Vinsane stated... (wisely) your rating really doesn't mean anything about you personally. It also doesn't appear to be from a lot of different people. Even so, when mine goes back to negative (if it does) I just see it more as a compatibility meter with the people here. If I am getting negatives from a lot of different people then I might leave. I would not want to harass people just because we are different. I would feel like I was in a gay bar or something... I wouldn't fit in.

Further... Yatta said he doesn't feel he has said anything Praiseworthy. I find this interesting because I didn't know what the rating system was really intended to be for anyway. At the expense of sounding like a suck-up, Yatta does post some pretty "calm" and "neutral, maybe there is this alternative view" stuff in my opinion. I assume we are total opposites as I could not predict his reaction to anything.

I think I posted somewhere else (maybe not, but I thought about it) and the way I am handling the system for now is this. If I read a post and it strikes me "at all" I rate it on a scale of 1 to 10. (1 being lowest, 10 being highest) If I believe a post rates 1 or 2, I might down-vote it unless it is an Admin or Yatta. (hehehe) If I think it is a 9 or a 10, then I might vote it up. My reaction might be based in how beneficial the post is to the residing thread or the board as a whole, as well as the depth of the statement, or lack their of. I would exclude criteria like appropriateness just because humor and such is so varied and not everyone here has English as a first language... so it can get complex. But to some, I am sure it won't be that complex. You might get voted up or down based on if they agree or disagree with you, even if your statement is a Wisdom Tree Seed. You could also get voted down if they just plain don't like your whole posting and textual style. Everyones motivations will be different I am sure.

In summary, I would not just ignore the rating system, but at the same time, think out what it might mean, which could be nothing. If you believe you are unjustly being attacked, it might mean incompatibility, not that anything is wrong. (you know, like with that crazy chick you dated right after high-school you never understood what happened with!)

MrBlackCat

[blackharted]

MrBlackCat, on 19 April 2011 - 05:58 AM, said:

In summary, I would not just ignore the rating system, but at the same time, think out what it might mean.
MrBlackCat

Why? Its pointless. Just ignore it, no point in taking it seriously.

Also WHY THE FUCK have you started putting "MrBlackCat" at the bottom of your posts again?

I thought you'd stamped out that annoying as fuck habit? That is what a sig is for.

[Master Fibbles]

Yatta, on 18 April 2011 - 11:41 PM, said:

Also, I feel my 12 positive votes are totally undeserved. I haven't said anything praiseworthy in a while. I guess I'm getting preferential treatment for being an admin here, heh.

A lot of your positive points probably come from your posts in the new forum thread or the Duke Nukem Experience thread where you posted the goods. There is also that one picture in The Post Thread...I think that got a lot of up votes.

MrBlackCat, on 19 April 2011 - 05:58 AM, said:

I think I posted somewhere else (maybe not, but I thought about it) and the way I am handling the system for now is this. If I read a post and it strikes me "at all" I rate it on a scale of 1 to 10. (1 being lowest, 10 being highest) If I believe a post rates 1 or 2, I might down-vote it unless it is an Admin or Yatta. (hehehe) If I think it is a 9 or a 10, then I might vote it up. My reaction might be based in how beneficial the post is to the residing thread or the board as a whole, as well as the depth of the statement, or lack their of. I would exclude criteria like appropriateness just because humor and such is so varied and not everyone here has English as a first language... so it can get complex. But to some, I am sure it won't be that complex.

This is a good approach to the rating.

I don't vote much...but, if a post is generally unhelpful or even deliberately off topic *cough* I usually think about down voting it. If I have seen a trend of that type of posting, I will down vote it. I think I've up voted more than I have down voted because I prefer to give points than take them away. My grading style is that you start off at 0 so you work your way up to 100%. Some people might think that is harsh, but that is how life works. You don't start with everything and then lose it all. Physical prime is in the 20's and I am not a follower of Platonic Epistemology.

What EmericaSkater said about up voting to balance out the down votes is the purpose of the system. Some people are going to down vote you because they didn't like your post...but others will vote it up because they like your post or even just like you. I commend you for your enthusiasm and I hope you stay around long enough to build up a good reputation...or maybe stay around to be hated by all, but that wouldn't be cool or fun.

[TerminX]

Mr. Flibble has the right idea here. I wouldn't take the reputation system too seriously yet as its only been around for a few weeks; it's just a fun way for people to anonymously give their opinion on the content of various posts.

In the case of Nukester10, I don't think it's that anyone dislikes him, I think it's more that he's written more than a few giant walls of text that amount to what could even be called nonsense when taken as a whole. I don't believe the downvotes are a reflection on his character, more a reflection of the fact that most of the people who frequent these forums would prefer to read useful posts that further their knowledge rather than, well, what it is that he's been posting.

When considering the rating system, you guys should probably pause to ask yourself this one simple question--have you seen anyone with an overwhelmingly negative reputation who actually tends to make decent, informative posts? I personally haven't.

I would also like to address this comment by Yatta:

Yatta, on 18 April 2011 - 11:41 PM, said:

Also, I feel my 12 positive votes are totally undeserved. I haven't said anything praiseworthy in a while. I guess I'm getting preferential treatment for being an admin here, heh.

I don't feel like they're undeserved... if someone found something you posted to be useful enough to them to give you reputation for it, you deserved it! Ideally, everyone should end up with a hefty positive reputation and getting downvoted really shouldn't affect it much. I got voted down by a few people for some posts I made recently criticizing Half-Life, but I didn't really care because I respect the fact that some of the things I said are generally disagreed with by a lot of gamers. In fact, I even gave some of the people who downvoted me positive rep for their responses because even though I didn't particularly agree with their opinions I still appreciated that they bothered to articulate their point of view and made some good points in the process.

[Yatta]

Well, I think that about sums it up.

I think TX has a pretty logical view on how you guys should understand the ratings system.

[VinsaneOne]

Yatta, on 19 April 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:

Well, I think that about sums it up.

I think TX has a pretty logical view on how you guys should understand the ratings system.

It takes just one person that cares less about the system to single out another and downvote every post they make. And it might be one who hates being alone with the most negative rating. Maybe a cap on voting should be placed.

[TerminX]

There is a cap on voting, you can only give 5 negative points per day.

[MrBlackCat]

How flexible is the system?

Could other functions be added or enabled?

It just popped to mind that it might be more fair if a single member could not give another single member more than one a day for instance. That is more reactionary than thought out though. It would take some time to think it all the way out.
The purpose would be to have people think a little as opposed to emotionally based reactionary negatives being passed out like candy because someone gets angry.
I doubt it would even be needed for positives because anger seems to be a bigger motivator than happiness or positive reaction.

Not actually a suggestion, just thinking in text.

I have no idea how this sites coding might work anyway.

Probably putting too much thought into it... kind of like the eBay feedback system, in the end it really means very little. "A++++".

MrBlackCat

[TerminX]

That's actually a good idea, it's just not one that's possible with this version of the forum software. Maybe when the next one is released something like that can be done... it's supposed to have some reputation system related improvements in it.

[DavoX]

Some websites only let you vote a single user one hour apart from each vote, that might be a way too...

[blackharted]

TX, on 19 April 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

That's actually a good idea, it's just not one that's possible with this version of the forum software. Maybe when the next one is released something like that can be done... it's supposed to have some reputation system related improvements in it.

You are already talking about the next version of the forums? Wow!

[Rellik]

The way I see it, the rating system should be mostly used for voting if a post constructive or non-constructive to the topic at hand. (And by not voting, remaining neutral)

Unfortunately some (usually the non-constructive people here) seem to think of the system as a like/dislike the poster, or agree/disagree (in a political sense.) both of these are problematic because the affected poster could be articulate and stay on topic, yet the person downvoting simply doesn't agree with the position or has taken to disliking the other for other unrelated reasons from other posts.

Hopefully, things will level out and a few single downvotes won't affect good reputations. Only those who are the real forum "pain in the asses" will have have a rep that shows so others will know to ignore them and move on.

Oh, hey, I just noticed that you can filter a thread based on post votes from -10 to +20, as sort of a conditional ignore list. Interesting might prove to be useful, but I usually just scroll past those who I perceive as non-constructive/annoying.

[Kathy]

Rellik, on 20 April 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

Oh, hey, I just noticed that you can filter a thread based on post votes from -10 to +20, as sort of a conditional ignore list. Interesting might prove to be useful, but I usually just scroll past those who I perceive as non-constructive/annoying.

It would be interesting to somehow dim the posts with minus reputation. The more minuses the less visible the post is.

[Micky C]

I also sometimes rep people if they've said something I've found funny. Others probably do it too, and it's a good thing IMO as it improves forum atmosphere.

[blackharted]

Rellik, on 20 April 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

Oh, hey, I just noticed that you can filter a thread based on post votes from -10 to +20, as sort of a conditional ignore list. Interesting might prove to be useful, but I usually just scroll past those who I perceive as non-constructive/annoying.

[Forge]

TX, on 19 April 2011 - 01:12 PM, said:

Mr. Flibble has the right idea here. I wouldn't take the reputation system too seriously yet as its only been around for a few weeks; it's just a fun way for people to anonymously give their opinion on the content of various posts.

In the case of Nukester10, I don't think it's that anyone dislikes him, I think it's more that he's written more than a few giant walls of text that amount to what could even be called nonsense when taken as a whole. I don't believe the downvotes are a reflection on his character, more a reflection of the fact that most of the people who frequent these forums would prefer to read useful posts that further their knowledge rather than, well, what it is that he's been posting.

When considering the rating system, you guys should probably pause to ask yourself this one simple question--have you seen anyone with an overwhelmingly negative reputation who actually tends to make decent, informative posts? I personally haven't.

I would also like to address this comment by Yatta:


I don't feel like they're undeserved... if someone found something you posted to be useful enough to them to give you reputation for it, you deserved it! Ideally, everyone should end up with a hefty positive reputation and getting downvoted really shouldn't affect it much. I got voted down by a few people for some posts I made recently criticizing Half-Life, but I didn't really care because I respect the fact that some of the things I said are generally disagreed with by a lot of gamers. In fact, I even gave some of the people who downvoted me positive rep for their responses because even though I didn't particularly agree with their opinions I still appreciated that they bothered to articulate their point of view and made some good points in the process.

Useless banter. Probably some criminal code sequencing embedded to message his homies in the slammer as well. I'm down-voting this post

[Micky C]

I just want to point out the hilarity in the situation that blackharted is getting negative rep points faster than TX is getting positive rep points.

[MrBlackCat]

Micky C, on 26 April 2011 - 01:31 AM, said:

I just want to point out the hilarity in the situation that blackharted is getting negative rep points faster than TX is getting positive rep points.

I don't know if that indicates the system is "working" or not... I am sure that is perspective. But I must admit that I am comfortable with the new system for the most part. Meaning that it seems pretty accurate to me... or at least when I encounter posts with feedback + or -, even if I don't agree completely, I am able to understand the motivations that produced them in most cases.

MrBlackCat

[Kathy]

Too bad we can't see whether or not post was voted in some cases. If 5 people upvote and 5 other people downvote one post then the rating would be as if the post haven't been voted yet.

[Mr.Deviance]

Sadly I didn't see this topic in time before i made mine but I totally agree with the system being counterproductive.
Knowing myself, lots of my bad ratings are due to posting things that are not really formatted for a multicultural environment but I did also notice that sometimes I just get haters that stalk my posts and rate me down no matter what I say lol.
I strongly believe that ratings are given based on the brand that you form with your name.
For ex BlackHearted is getting thumbs down just because lots of people associate his name and avatar with the image of the biggest troll of this forum.
I think that already having enough thumbs down present under your Ego bar, is also an incentive for future negative ratings to come simply because people find it easy to add more to your collection.
It's almost like a paradox if you want.
I've seen entire wars and powerful arguments had on the rating system on the facepunch forums some years ago.
There's an entire science behind these ratings and their influence with a forum community and like I said so in my topic, I strongly believe the ratings are causing more harm to a community such as this one, than good.
I've stated before that I am an admin since 2002 of a forum with 141220 registered members to date, maybe my opinion is worth more to the staff of this forum if I mention that fact since I believe that I did gather a bit of experience with these things during this time and I might not totally be guessing things.