[Person of Color]

There are plenty of fracking sites that violate that and fuck things up.

We shouldn't abandon it but we should clamp down on greedy pricks who destroy our aquifers.

The entire fracking debate is being billed as "the next big thing" when in reality we've had the next big thing for over half a century. The fossil fuel industry's suppression of this technology is one of the greatest modern stories never told.

All of our accidents are due to either A. Lax maintenance B. Poor regulatory oversight or C. Old technology

C has been fixed and A and B can be fixed electric companies are reimbursed for downtime. Or better yet, we tell them to fuck off and take control of our own resources.

[Fox]

 Person of Color, on 28 February 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

All of our accidents are due to either A. Lax maintenance B. Poor regulatory oversight or C. Old technology

Aka people fighting nuclear power.

[Lunick]

[Mark]

Just like the movie " Jaws " scared people away from swimming in the ocean, the movie " China Syndrome " convinced a lot of people to never do nuclear power. That coupled with the disaster in Japan has sealed its fate in the minds of many.

And resize your pic. Almost 3.8MB

[Hank]

The US operate like a hundred reactors, and are building more. Somehow Tinseltown has had no none ain't no effect
And beaches on oceans are as packed as ever, especially since Global Warming is taking place.

[Mark]

After a quick google search I stand corrected. Either I didn't know or I forgot that we gave the green light to start building nuclear power plants again.

[Robman]

 High Treason, on 28 February 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

Oh, so you control the weather do you? You control the insect population and the animals?
If so, you're just as bad as what you're protesting to - if not a part of it.

Yep, I guess farmers get screwed over EVERY year, no crops come in.. mother nature just detroys everything.

As a side note, my mother keeps a LARGE vegetable garden every year, turns out great.

All is lost, please big government, feed me. You win.



- Don't get me started on Nuclear energy. We've seen what happens when nuclear goes wrong, a few times now.
Radioactive gases and liquids take how long to break down? Billions of years?

Let's just find a mountain, make a hole in it and dump er in, it's all good. Yucca Mountain.

I'm certain we have alternative energy sources, even ones that are undisclosed. They keep us using nuclear because it has the potential to wipe out alot of life.

Now, let's get the lowest bidder to build all the power plants the same and pepper them across the country/world... LOL
Power plant gets old? Meh, slap another 25 years on it's life and change nothing.

Think Fukushima, Chernobyl, 3 eyed fish and death

[Kyanos]

Fluoride... "I just want the choice"
98% of Europe is fluoride free. +1 grep point to whoever can tell me why northern Ireland is still drinking fluoride in their water.

http://www.fluoridef...e-in-europe.php

[Robman]

Drek, on 01 March 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

Fluoride... "I just want the choice"
98% of Europe is fluoride free. +1 grep point to whoever can tell me why northern Ireland is still drinking fluoride in their water.

http://www.fluoridef...e-in-europe.php

Because the fighting Irish, didn't fight them off.

Globalists hate firecrotches.

ALSO..
Because: Catholic church.

It's a shame Catholics have no idea the vatican is the synagogue of satan.
Let's worship the sun! .. yayyyy fun times.

[Mark]

Drek, on 01 March 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

Fluoride... "I just want the choice"
98% of Europe is fluoride free. +1 grep point to whoever can tell me why northern Ireland is still drinking fluoride in their water.

http://www.fluoridef...e-in-europe.php

It goes good with potatoes.

[Person of Color]

Mark., on 01 March 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

Just like the movie " Jaws " scared people away from swimming in the ocean, the movie " China Syndrome " convinced a lot of people to never do nuclear power. That coupled with the disaster in Japan has sealed its fate in the minds of many.

And resize your pic. Almost 3.8MB

Yep. Furthermore, Fukushima and Chernobyl were ancient designs with severely flawed containment. It also didn't help that a few months after China Syndrome came out, TMI-2 (Three Mile Island) had a partial meltdown.

Energy conglomerates are seriously pushing fracking now because nuclear reactors are finally bulletproof, mature tech, and that scares the shit out of them. Plants like the Westinghouse AP1000 have the potential to destroy an entire industry.

[Robman]

Person of Color, on 01 March 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

Yep. Furthermore, Fukushima and Chernobyl were ancient designs with severely flawed containment. It also didn't help that a few months after China Syndrome came out, TMI-2 (Three Mile Island) had a partial meltdown.

Energy conglomerates are seriously pushing fracking now because nuclear reactors are finally bulletproof, mature tech, and that scares the shit out of them. Plants like the Westinghouse AP1000 have the potential to destroy an entire industry.

"Julius Robert Oppenheimer[note 1] (April 22, 1904 – February 18, 1967) was an American theoretical physicist and professor of physics at the University of California, Berkeley. He is among the persons who are often called the "father of the atomic bomb" for their role in the Manhattan Project, the World War II project that developed the first nuclear weapons. The first atomic bomb was detonated on July 16, 1945, in the Trinity test in New Mexico; Oppenheimer remarked later that it brought to mind words from the Bhagavad Gita: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."[2][note 2]

After the war he became a chief advisor to the newly created United States Atomic Energy Commission and used that position to lobby for international control of nuclear power to avert nuclear proliferation and an arms race with the Soviet Union. After provoking the ire of many politicians with his outspoken opinions during the Second Red Scare, he had his security clearance revoked in a much-publicized hearing in 1954, and was effectively stripped of his direct political influence; he continued to lecture, write and work in physics. Nine years later President John F. Kennedy awarded (and Lyndon B. Johnson presented) him with the Enrico Fermi Award as a gesture of political rehabilitation."

[Robman]

Person of Color, on 01 March 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

Energy conglomerates are seriously pushing fracking now because nuclear reactors are finally bulletproof, mature tech, and that scares the shit out of them. Plants like the Westinghouse AP1000 have the potential to destroy an entire industry.

"Simplification was a major design objective for the AP1000. The simplified plant design includes overall safety systems, normal operating systems, the control room, construction techniques, and instrumentation and control systems. The result is a plant that is easier and less expensive to build, operate and maintain."

"In April 2010, a dozen environmental organizations called on the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission to investigate possible limitations in the AP1000 reactor design. These groups appealed to three federal agencies to suspend the licensing process because they believed containment in the new design is weaker than existing reactors.[14]"

I'm sorry, does it say it will be built cheaper? ... Does it say anywhere in there that they can use science to convert radioactive water waste to be inert?

Oh it does say it will be built cheaper.. it also says all following plants will be built exactly the same.. again.

What part about creating a substance that can kill life for billions of years do people just not get?

Matthew 24:22
"If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

All your glorified ap1000 is doing is : .. following the trend of cheaper,smaller,faster.

[Person of Color]

The AP1000 containment design is only of "concern" in the United States. The NRC is ridiculously corrupt and GE has them in their pockets. GE is scared because their ABWR's are going to be unsellable compared to this. Other countries have approved and ordered the original AP1000 design and have no complaints. Plants with the original design are already under construction elsewhere.

Simpler is better regarding reactor tech. Fukushima was caused not by the earthquake, but the tsunami. The transfer stations were installed in front of the reactors, downhill. They were flooded, and the reactors melted down because during a full station blackout, you can't cool the core.

With the AP1000, if you suffer a full station blackout, a reserve tank up top will naturally keep the core cool for four days. If you need more time, you pour more water in. Convection - the laws of physics itself, keep the reactor stable.

Back in the day, the trend with reactor designs was to keep adding redundant systems. Starting with the German Pebble Bed prototypes in the 80's and the Integral Fast Reactor in the 90's, Newtonian methods have been the next big thing amongst engineers. The laws of physics are constant - backup generators, pumps, and computers are not.

[Robman]

Person of Color, on 01 March 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

The AP1000 containment design is only of "concern" in the United States. The NRC is ridiculously corrupt and GE has them in their pockets. GE is scared because their ABWR's are going to be unsellable compared to this. Other countries have approved and ordered the original AP1000 design and have no complaints. Plants with the original design are already under construction elsewhere.

Simpler is better regarding reactor tech. Fukushima was caused not by the earthquake, but the tsunami. The transfer stations were installed in front of the reactors, downhill. They were flooded, and the reactors melted down because during a full station blackout, you can't cool the core.

With the AP1000, if you suffer a full station blackout, a reserve tank up top will naturally keep the core cool for four days. If you need more time, you pour more water in. Convection - the laws of physics itself, keep the reactor stable.

Back in the day, the trend with reactor designs was to keep adding redundant systems. Starting with the German Pebble Bed prototypes in the 80's and the Integral Fast Reactor in the 90's, Newtonian methods have been the next big thing amongst engineers. The laws of physics are constant - backup generators, pumps, and computers are not.

You know they excavated the cliff or "bluff" down about 50 feet or more when making fukushima.. if they had of left it higher, it would likely still be functioning.


What part about creating a substance that can kill life for billions of years do people just not get?

From wiki:
"Aged used fuel may also be stored in above-ground dry cask storage, in the same manner as the currently operating fleet of US power reactors.[5]"

This from their site, what do you make of this word-fuckery?
"Passive Safety-Related Systems. The AP1000 plant safety-related passive systems and equipment are sufficient to automatically establish and maintain core cooling and containment integrity indefinitely following design-basis events, assuming the most limiting single failure, with no operator action, and no on-site or off-site ac power sources. An additional level of defense is provided through diverse mitigation functions that are included within the passive safety-related systems."

It literally just said nothing.

Plant still has diesel back up.. btw. Then after that, if no power.. the water level goes down and they have to top it up..

OOooh la la .. digital instrumentation! .. more easily hacked, yay!

[Person of Color]

No, it said everything. I know what all of those terms mean. You don't because you're copying and pasting shit from online articles.

Those are scientific terms. For example, design-basis would be a core meltdown due to operator error. Non-design-basis would be a plane hitting the reactor, which, well, honestly, wouldn't do shit to most reactors except disintegrate the plane into cheese grater dust.

Passive safety is preferable to active safety in a reactor. Passive is based around the laws of physics, active requires equipment that can break down and fail when needed most.

Go read a book.

[Robman]

Person of Color, on 01 March 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

No, it said everything. I know what all of those terms mean. You don't because you're copying and pasting shit from online articles.

Those are scientific terms. For example, design-basis would be a core meltdown due to operator error. Non-design-basis would be a plane hitting the reactor, which, well, honestly, wouldn't do shit to most reactors except disintegrate the plane into cheese grater dust.

Passive safety is preferable to active safety in a reactor. Passive is based around the laws of physics, active requires equipment that can break down and fail when needed most.

Go read a book.

What part about creating a substance that can kill life for billions of years do people just not get?

Your faith in humanities creations is disturbing. And now you're lashing out because you lose.
I forgot you were an atomic physicist. You have certainly convinced me. I am now "pro" nuclear.

Articles.. hah. How dare I look into something, including the actual westinghouse website.

[Mblackwell]

Whoah whoah... are we talking about failures? What happens when an oil rig fails again?

Spoiler

And what happens if pipelines burst?

There are far reaching effects that happen from fossil fuel related disasters that everyone seems to forget about after a year or so (...for some reason eh). In this case you get the lesser of two evils. The resource gathering can be less environmentally intensive, you are not actively polluting during operation, and it's entirely possible to safely store.

In the mean time you get cheap and extremely abundant energy for the long term. Combine it with advancements in solar (which is continuing to improve), and eventually wind (once we stop just building large turbines... there's other versions of wind tech already that are better), we can pretty much run things indefinitely. No more worries about energy shortages.

And isn't that one of the resources that we fight over (globally) quite a bit? Energy? Why not take something off the table?

If all of these companies were smart they'd be working to shift their infrastructure so they were on the leading edge, but they insist on becoming fossils themselves.

Spoiler

...and fucking everyone on their way down.

[Robman]

^ I can agree with most of that Blacky. Despite not knowing what you're referring to in a few instances and that we were talking about nuclear, not fossil.


@Viper - If I need an expert opinion on the best thermal paste, I'll give ya a dingle on the ol' telly.

[Person of Color]

The odds of a pipeline bursting are FAR higher than a nuclear meltdown.

A well designed reactor can contain the effects of the meltdown.

A pipeline just fucks everything up.

Just because something HAS the potential to kill billions doesn't mean it will. Modern reactors are among the safest ways to generate electricity out there.

If you really wanna talk about "preserving the Earth," go compare statistics for pollution, then tell me nuclear is a bad idea.

[Person of Color]

By the way, claiming my argument is invalid because I'm not a physicist invalidates yours too.

[Robman]

Person of Color, on 01 March 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

Just because something HAS the potential to kill billions doesn't mean it will.

You know your argument is over when you say shit like the above here.

Murphy's Law must be lost on you.

Here, I'll refresh:

"Murphy's law is a popular adage that states that "things will go wrong in any given situation, if you give them a chance," or more commonly, "whatever can go wrong, will go wrong." A number of variants on the rule have been formulated, as have several corollaries. "


That's a pretty big "what if" to blatantly ignore... don't you think?

It's not like they haven't been dumping this shit in ol' ma earth either, right?

Person of Color, on 01 March 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

By the way, claiming my argument is invalid because I'm not a physicist invalidates yours too.

Good point, thankgod I'm not trying to play the role of physicist... you are.

[Mark]

Person of Color, on 01 March 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

The odds of a pipeline bursting are FAR higher than a nuclear meltdown.

Because of the wacky eco-terrorists who could probably get at a pipeline easier than a nuclear plant.

[Robman]

Mark., on 01 March 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Because of the wacky eco-terrorists who could probably get at a pipeline easier than a nuclear plant.

Earthquakes, airstrikes, attacks, hacks and acts of God don't happen in Viper's world.

For he dwellith in a perfect world, a world where the anal lube doth flourish @ 50gb/s.

[Person of Color]

Mark., on 01 March 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Because of the wacky eco-terrorists who could probably get at a pipeline easier than a nuclear plant.

That and the fact that certain energy companies (*COUGH*BP*COUGH*) don't give a fuck about maintainence.

I fucking love eco terrorists. "We're gonna raise awareness for the environment by destroying it ourselves!" Liberal logic at it's finest.

That and Priuses. A Hyundai Elantra gets nearly 40mpg, goes faster, is better built, more fun to drive, is rated as a PZEV (partial zero emissions vehicle) and is like ten grand less. Ya'll niggas ever see a lithium mine? Those things are filthy. Guess what's in your battery?

[Jblade]

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Banqiao_Dam

A 'green' powerplant killed about 171,000 people, compared to Chernobyl's 31(Deaths due to cancer are just estimates ranging from 4000 to 9000) and all of Fukushima's deaths were down to the Earthquake and Tsunami.

Coal mining has killed over 100,000 coal miners in the US alone.

Quote

That and Priuses. A Hyundai Elantra gets nearly 40mpg, goes faster, is better built, more fun to drive, is rated as a PZEV (partial zero emissions vehicle) and is like ten grand less. Ya'll niggas ever see a lithium mine? Those things are filthy. Guess what's in your battery?

Electric cars always make me laugh because where the fuck does that electric come from? Most likely a fossil fuel power plant - so literally all they're doing is subsidizing the pollution from themselves onto someone else, but of course that's fine because then they can smell their own farts about how fucking green and amazing they are.

[Robman]

Hyundai elantra = lowered expectations.

[Robman]

Jblade, on 01 March 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Banqiao_Dam

A 'green' powerplant killed about 171,000 people, compared to Chernobyl's 31(Deaths due to cancer are just estimates ranging from 4000 to 9000) and all of Fukushima's deaths were down to the Earthquake and Tsunami.

Coal mining has killed over 100,000 coal miners in the US alone.

Electric cars always make me laugh because where the fuck does that electric come from? Most likely a fossil fuel power plant - so literally all they're doing is subsidizing the pollution from themselves onto someone else, but of course that's fine because then they can smell their own farts about how fucking green and amazing they are.

How long have we had nuclear energy? Not reeeealllly that long. How many meltdowns or instances of dumping waste have we had?

Humans matter .. and so does nature, that thing that also dies when exposed to radiation of that kind.

I'm convinced by now that we have better ways of creating energy. We're just kept with this dirty.. toxic shit.

We argue about which blue, pink, purple, green, red cyanide pill is better.

@Viper, are you saying westinghouse gives a fuck about maintenance? They all play fast n loose.

I suppose if we store this radioactive waste water responsibly and no bad things happen over the next 5 billion years or so, I reckon everything should be jolly good!

Now look at this lightbulb go!

[Jblade]

Quote

How long have we had nuclear energy? Not reeeealllly that long. How many meltdowns or instances of dumping waste have we had?

About 2 high profile ones, and a few little ones. I literally just told you how many people have died due to the other power systems and we've only had them for a couple of decades longer. Does the 171,000 dead people from the hydroplant, and the 100,000 dead coal miners not kind of dwarf the fatalities from nuclear power?

Quote

I'm convinced by now that we have better ways of creating energy. We're just kept with this dirty.. toxic shit.

Cool, what are they?

[Person of Color]

Jblade, on 01 March 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Electric cars always make me laugh because where the fuck does that electric come from? Most likely a fossil fuel power plant - so literally all they're doing is subsidizing the pollution from themselves onto someone else, but of course that's fine because then they can smell their own farts about how fucking green and amazing they are.

The Tesla Model S is just fucking cool though. Ever sit in one? Or see one on the road? They're pretty common here. If I had that much money to blow, and I wanted a luxury car, that would be the car I'd buy. It's so awesome it just exudes cool from everywhere.

Robman, on 01 March 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

Hyundai elantra = lowered expectations.

I used to have an '04 Elantra GT. It was a good car. Handled friggin' awesome. Engine wasn't super power but man was it refined.

Also anyone shopping for a Prius doesn't give a shit about "fun."

Robman, on 01 March 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

How long have we had nuclear energy? Not reeeealllly that long. How many meltdowns or instances of dumping waste have we had?

Humans matter .. and so does nature, that thing that also dies when exposed to radiation of that kind.

I'm convinced by now that we have better ways of creating energy. We're just kept with this dirty.. toxic shit.

We argue about which blue, pink, purple, green, red cyanide pill is better.

@Viper, are you saying westinghouse gives a fuck about maintenance? They all play fast n loose.

We've had "better tech" for ages. Our disasters are caused by poor designs done on slide rulers from the 60's, or communism, or poor training and maintenance.

Westinghouse is not in charge of maintenance. The company who purchases the reactor is. Reactor companies no longer play "fast and loose" with safety. Permits are granted by towns, and states based on modern safety tech.

Your argument is a fallacy. Look up "no true scotsman."