[Person of Color]

Okay you're aware that you're in that 2% of the population who thinks 7's UI sucks right?

It's a huge step forward from XP in nearly every category.

I had dual monitors for a short time at the end of XP's life. A month after I installed the public release candidate of 7 I sold the second monitor.

Multitasking is lightyears better in 7. The new taskbar makes it much quicker to switch between and preview applications. The new Start menu allows you to select programs faster. Dragging windows to the edge of the screen automatically makes them take up half the real estate, duplicating the functionality of a second monitor. Running in high resolutions is much easier because everything is scaled properly on a 1080p display. Windows Update actually fucking works and doesn't need 76 relaunches until it finally updates everything, and it doesn't need 300+ updates either. Also Aero Glass looks gorgeous and makes the machine far more fluid and responsive.

The list of incremental improvements goes on and on. Furthermore, how does Windows 7's sound system not do what you need? There's no hardware acceleration but you have full control of everything. Let's face it, do you really need hardware acceleration on a quad core?

[High Treason]

I won't deny that there are many improvements, I just think they were not very well implemented. Aero looks horrible and there's no customization options for it, it's ugly and bloated making the video card stutter at times, it also eats the CPU to death (Core 2 Duo 8200 at whatever Mhz) and I need everything the CPU has to scale 720P60 (Uncompressed) to 360P30 and mix it with a camera feed before compressing it to VP6 (This isn't like that H.264 PVR you saw in PC World, this stuff really needs a lot of power).

Multi monitors are only relevant to my editing workstation (XP Pro 32-Bit) because I use a second monitor to preview video, it can not be used as an extended desktop. As a result, I have no idea what differences there are in 7 for that, I heard of problems occuring with window placement when locking the system though.

The icons (and everything else) are too big, I have no idea how to make them smaller at present, no doubt it will take three more clicks than it did in Windows XP and be somewhere that I wouldn't think to look. Every time I use an applet in the control panel I hit ALT+F4 when done only to find the control panel is gone, this confuses me as it doesn't happen with all applets.

The Aero Snap is annoying, I want to put the window there, not maximize it, that's what the maximize button is for.

The recording mixer is useless, no stereo mix, also, I don't get why some of the sliders disappear at random.

[Forge]

use linux.

i prefer debian, but there are other flavors:

http://distrowatch.com/

if you want things put together for you get Mint or Ubuntu

if you want to do it yourself, get debian, openSuse or freeBSD

[High Treason]

I've used Kubuntu before, but I could never use Linux as my main OS; No Sony Vegas or Adobe Premier for a start. I don't doubt there's an alternative, but that's the thing, I want it to work out of the box and I expect I'd be sat for hours sifting through hundreds of open source "compile it yourself, we won't write what libraries you need and you'll want a degree in computer science just to make your compiler be able to do anything with our MAKEFILE." before I found anything even remotely as capable.

On the plus side, it looks like my new workstation will cost less due to me scaling down the specs. On the negative side, I've wasted money on an OS I can't use and I'm stuck with a pile of hardware that has never been used, is completely useless to me and there's no market for it around here making selling it off damn near impossible.

[Person of Color]

Stereo mix is present, you have to right click the blank space in the audio selector thingy and check "show disabled devices."

Also you need at least a quad core for what you're doing. And my GUI never stutters on any of my systems, even the file server I built with a lowly AMD A6 5400k...and that CPU is equivalent to yours performance wise.

[Kathy]

High Treason, on 31 March 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

I'd forgotten what a colossal mess the OS was.

Just because of the UI? You're kidding, right?

Quote

Damn thing can't even multi-boot unless you use a seperate partition, which sucks, because I could do it in every other version of the OS, hell, even some versions of DOS could multi-boot with other DOS/Windows versions. Some freakin' upgrade.

It makes perfect sense to have OSes on different partitions.

Quote

As time wears on, I am starting to think more and more that the time is getting nearer to buy a Mac.

How it would be different, may I ask?

Forge, on 31 March 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

if you want to do it yourself, get debian, openSuse or freeBSD

ArchLinux!

[Person of Color]

Why the fuck would you install multiple OSes on one partition?

[High Treason]

486DX2, on 31 March 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Stereo mix is present, you have to right click the blank space in the audio selector thingy and check "show disabled devices."

Doesn't work for me, but I assume it's driver dependant.

Quote

Also you need at least a quad core for what you're doing. And my GUI never stutters on any of my systems, even the file server I built with a lowly AMD A6 5400k...and that CPU is equivalent to yours performance wise.

What GPU was in there? I'd bet on it being faster than the Intel G35 Express. Don't really need a quad core, the Pentium D can do this stuff fine on XP.

Cathy, on 31 March 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Just because of the UI? You're kidding, right?

It isn't consistent, which makes it hard to use.

Quote

It makes perfect sense to have OSes on different partitions.

No, it doesn't, that would be slower.

Quote

How it would be different, may I ask?

My video grabbing hardware is better supported under OS X, I can also use that OS without problems.

486DX2, on 31 March 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Why the fuck would you install multiple OSes on one partition?

As above, it's faster that way and it's how it was always done before. In fact, it's what I was taught to do when I did my NIAT/CLAIT.



It's all irrelevant now, I have begun re-installing XP on the system as I need it in a couple of days.

[Person of Color]

High Treason, on 31 March 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

Doesn't work for me, but I assume it's driver dependant.

Jesus dude, what are you running? I have no problems with stereo mix using Realtek or Via...

You can't be using SPDIF out. You must use the analog out. Otherwise you just get nothing.

Quote

What GPU was in there? I'd bet on it being faster than the Intel G35 Express. Don't really need a quad core, the Pentium D can do this stuff fine on XP.

Do you have a Pentium D or Core 2?

The A6 had an integrated AMD Radeon 7540D. Way faster.

Why on Earth are you using a G35 integrated? It doesn't even have true hardware acceleration. The X3000 does in the 965 chipset, the G35 has the AIDS card. It computes all shaders in software. Plus it's stealing memory and bandwidth from an already slow processor.

The problem isn't Windows 7, the problem is your computer is a piece of shit. A $30 video card would be at least five times faster than what you have now. Even a lowly Intel X3000 is 2-3 times faster. Shit, even a Geforce 6150 would kick your cards ass, and that's an integrated chip from 2005...

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It isn't consistent, which makes it hard to use.

What the fuck? No, it's just different. Get used to it.

Quote

No, it doesn't, that would be slower.

That is completely untrue. I can't think of anyone I've ever known who would run more than one OS in a partition. It's a bitch to allocate resources and if you have to format for any reason it's extra work.

Let me repeat: No certified technician worth their salt would recommend what you're doing. I can run a bare copper wire from my battery to the chassis on my Mustang, but why would I want to rig something as vital as a grounding wire just for the sake of it?

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My video grabbing hardware is better supported under OS X, I can also use that OS without problems.

Shit changes. Buy newer hardware. Sell the old shit to help absorb the cost. If legacy stuff is that important, build another box, that's what I've done.

Quote

As above, it's faster that way and it's how it was always done before. In fact, it's what I was taught to do when I did my NIAT/CLAIT.

Those are dogshit certifications that are far below A+. It was never done that way before, even in the days of Win9x, because of potential conflicts in the file system.

There is zero performance advantage to doing that. In a modern day PC, disk I/O performance is due to the rotational speed, aerial density, cache, HD controller, bus controller, drivers, among other smaller factors. What you're thinking of is seek time, and unless you're using a 5.25" Quantum ShitFoot hard drive, there is no performance advantage. Those things had abysmal seek time. On a modern drive, seek time is a non issue.

Quote

It's all irrelevant now, I have begun re-installing XP on the system as I need it in a couple of days.

You need to set your system up properly. Windows 7 isn't the problem.

[High Treason]

486DX2, on 31 March 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

Jesus dude, what are you running? I have no problems with stereo mix using Realtek or Via...

You can't be using SPDIF out. You must use the analog out. Otherwise you just get nothing.

Works for everyone else, but I also read that not all drivers support it, my Intel Audio apparently does not have this feature.

Quote

Do you have a Pentium D or Core 2?

Both. The Pentium D does have a GTX 460 to help it though. The machines work together; one records, one streams.

Quote

The A6 had an integrated AMD Radeon 7540D. Way faster. Why on Earth are you using a G35 integrated? It doesn't even have true hardware acceleration. The X3000 does in the 965 chipset, the G35 has the AIDS card. It computes all shaders in software. Plus it's stealing memory and bandwidth from an already slow processor.

Not much choice, had to build the machine for less than £100 (I think I did well personally) and there is only one PCI-E slot available which the video grabber needs, though I did once try a 7300GS which didn't work as the board won't recognze cards higher than PCI-E v1.0.

Quote

The problem isn't Windows 7, the problem is your computer is a piece of shit. A $30 video card would be at least five times faster than what you have now. Even a lowly Intel X3000 is 2-3 times faster. Shit, even a Geforce 6150 would kick your cards ass, and that's an integrated chip from 2005...

I found the G35 adequate under XP, despite it being a piece of junk.

Quote

What the fuck? No, it's just different. Get used to it.

No, it's inconsistent, if I open System Properties and close it, the control panel is gone but if I open Multimedia Properties and close it the control panel is still there, this annoys me.

Quote

That is completely untrue. I can't think of anyone I've ever known who would run more than one OS in a partition. It's a bitch to allocate resources and if you have to format for any reason it's extra work.

Let me repeat: No certified technician worth their salt would recommend what you're doing. I can run a bare copper wire from my battery to the chassis on my Mustang, but why would I want to rig something as vital as a grounding wire just for the sake of it?

It's what I was taught to do. There is a drop-off of performance the further out on the disc you go. In fact, it was the only way to multiboot DOS without messing with the BIOS every time you needed to switch OS.

Quote

Shit changes. Buy newer hardware. Sell the old shit to help absorb the cost. If legacy stuff is that important, build another box, that's what I've done.

That hardware is less than (edit) three years old. I am buying new hardware, hence the WIP Xeon system I now have to scrap and the "transitional" Core 2.

Quote

Those are dogshit certifications that are far below A+. It was never done that way before, even in the days of Win9x, because of potential conflicts in the file system.

Maybe, but it's what I learned.

Quote

There is zero performance advantage to doing that. In a modern day PC, disk I/O performance is due to the rotational speed, aerial density, cache, HD controller, bus controller, drivers, among other smaller factors. What you're thinking of is seek time, and unless you're using a 5.25" Quantum ShitFoot hard drive, there is no performance advantage. Those things had abysmal seek time. On a modern drive, seek time is a non issue.

As above. Oh, and it's a Seagate (rubbish!), it was on special offer. It was a newly formatted partition anyway.

Quote

You need to set your system up properly. Windows 7 isn't the problem.

It clearly is. I think I will save up for a Mac Pro.

[Person of Color]

High Treason, on 31 March 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

Works for everyone else, but I also read that not all drivers support it, my Intel Audio apparently does not have this feature.

Holy shit, Intel still makes audio codecs? I haven't seen one built onto a motherboard in a decade.

Quote

Both. The Pentium D does have a GTX 460 to help it though. The machines work together; one records, one streams.

A Pentium D is woefully underpowered for a GTX 460. It's even underpowered for a 8800GT. Why not just upgrade one machine with a quad core and streamline the whole process? That's what my brother does, although he doesn't use a capture card.

Quote

Not much choice, had to build the machine for less than £100 (I think I did well personally) and there is only one PCI-E slot available which the video grabber needs, though I did once try a 7300GS which didn't work as the board won't recognze cards higher than PCI-E v1.0.

That's not bad for a hundred quid, but why not just get a quad core?

Quote

I found the G35 adequate under XP, despite it being a piece of junk.

Yeah anything can handle XP, even a Rage Pro.

Quote

No, it's inconsistent, if I open System Properties and close it, the control panel is gone but if I open Multimedia Properties and close it the control panel is still there, this annoys me.

Yeah like I said you just have to adjust.

Quote

It's what I was taught to do. There is a drop-off of performance the further out on the disc you go. In fact, it was the only way to multiboot DOS without messing with the BIOS every time you needed to switch OS.

Actually the drop off is further inward. Also, on a modern hard drive, due to the way the sectors are spaced, it's less pronounced. It's not really noticeable anymore in day to day use.

Why not just run DOS in a virtual machine? It's not like DOS software needs all that horsepower.

Quote

That hardware is less than a year old. I am buying new hardware, hence the WIP Xeon system I now have to scrap and the "transitional" Core 2.

I don't know what's going on with that so I can't comment.

Quote

Maybe, but it's what I learned.

I didn't even know what those courses were until now. And I had to add "computer" after them to get any valid results.

Quote

As above. Oh, and it's a Seagate (rubbish!), it was on special offer. It was a newly formatted partition anyway.

*Shudders* I fucking hate those things. Nightmares, each and every one. Fuck them for buying out Samsung, now only WD sells worthwhile drives.

Quote

It clearly is. I think I will save up for a Mac Pro.

Screw that. I like Macs a lot, I'm not like other geeks, but an i5 system will do everything you need and then some. If you overclock it to 4.0GHz or more, it'll be total overkill on the cheap. And those chips are so easy to overclock there is near zero technical skill needed.

[High Treason]

486DX2, on 31 March 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Holy shit, Intel still makes audio codecs? I haven't seen one built onto a motherboard in a decade.

It's an old mobo. I have a suspicion it is a Realtek chip.

Quote

A Pentium D is woefully underpowered for a GTX 460. It's even underpowered for a 8800GT. Why not just upgrade one machine with a quad core and streamline the whole process? That's what my brother does, although he doesn't use a capture card.

That one cant be upgraded further, it is far too old to support Core 2 processors. As for the Core 2 system, I couldn't afford one (quad core) but I did really want one, it was only intended to be a temporary system (hence "transitional") to stand in whilst the Pentium D was rendering or recording so I could still do other things (Stream to twitch or watch YouTube videos, nothing else I own is powerful enough.) and maybe some editing here and there until I got the Xeon running. I only own the GTX460 because my previous card died and it was the cheapest thing I could find at the time that I could get a waterblock for - yes, it was cheaper than the 8800. Hardware prices in the UK are very strange and often on the expensive side. The Xeon I wanted (E3-1270V2) is £600 - £800 here but it costs about £350 to import one from the USA, that price includes shipping!

Quote

Yeah anything can handle XP, even a Rage Pro.

FMLE ran fine under it anyway, which was all that really mattered on that machine.

Quote

Yeah like I said you just have to adjust.

Maybe. Windows Explorer at least seems to be consistent, actually more so than XP.

Quote

Actually the drop off is further inward. Also, on a modern hard drive, due to the way the sectors are spaced, it's less pronounced. It's not really noticeable anymore in day to day use.

Really? I thought it was the other way around, perhaps the file system is also a factor? Otherwise, I'm just wrong.

Quote

Why not just run DOS in a virtual machine? It's not like DOS software needs all that horsepower.

I have about 13 other systems from a 286 up to an Athlon to run older OSes, I was just using it as an example. It's quite fun to load DOS on the Athlon 1400 and install an 80's game that runs way too fast though

Quote

I don't know what's going on with that so I can't comment.

Nor do I really, given that Windows 7 was out when the device was made, the manafacturer doesn't even list the device on their website now actually, perhaps that is why it was cheap - it was end of line - I don't know. I do plan on replacing it with another Intensity Pro, but given the performance problems and inability to change the graphics card, the Win7 support that has is of little use at present. This card is better supported on OS X btw, which is a factor in me considering going that way.

Quote

I didn't even know what those courses were until now. And I had to add "computer" after them to get any valid results.

It's OK, they were crap anyway, the place I did it got shut down because it was -7C at my desk in winter. Incidentally, I almost always write NIAT as NISA because I was learning to figure skate at the same time and the bloke running the course also worked at the ice arena, my instructor used to tell me off for filling NIAT on my ice-skating-related paperwork all the time, and she wasn't the kind of woman you wanted to annoy; About 5' 1" in height but she couldn't half yell.

Quote

*Shudders* I fucking hate those things. Nightmares, each and every one. Fuck them for buying out Samsung, now only WD sells worthwhile drives.

Oh, no! They bought Samsung's HDD devision? Damn! I liked Samsung drives too, for what they cost they were good performers and were quite reliable, no doubt Seagate will ruin them. I swear by WD though, I use Caviar Blacks and RE4s for important stuff and RAID. I read somewhere that WD bought Hitachi's HDD devision, so you never know, the Deathstar might prove to be a good drive yet (but I'm not holding my breath).

Quote

Screw that. I like Macs a lot, I'm not like other geeks, but an i5 system will do everything you need and then some. If you overclock it to 4.0GHz or more, it'll be total overkill on the cheap. And those chips are so easy to overclock there is near zero technical skill needed.

Probably, but I want it to do what I need in 5 years time too without having to upgrade it much. That's just my style, overbuild (overbuy in the case of a Mac) , never overclock and laugh later when I'm not having to throw much at upgrades. The Pentium D is eight years old this month. It cost £3000 when it was built and I've spent about £600 more on repairs and upgrades in the years I've had it. I hated it when I first booted it, had a FireGL card in there that couldn't play Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness (Don't think I was missing much though) but it turned out to be a good machine, payed for itself by now, given that I was spending about £1000 a year before that. The Pentium D was only meant to run for 3.5 years though, upgrading is long overdue.

Rambling: I remember that time, I'd actually spent more because I had an Athlon 64 (Identifies as Hammer 3200+ in the BIOS) that had never worked properly and burned it's RAM out every couple of weeks (freak board, had DDR1 and AGP), I edited one video on that before it blew the GeForce 4000 it was running and never finished anything else due to constantly having to worry about RAM failing. In the end I used a defective 486-DX33 (built from stuff in bins) for several months whilst I saved for the Pentium D. Editing video in Sonic Foundry VideoFactory (Now Vegas Movie Studio) on a Tseng ET4000 was rubbish, rendering took days and I couldn't see the video in real time until it was rendered. Autodesk Animator didn't offer much fun either. I also only owned one CD the 2X drive would play, The Eminem Show, I can still remember the lyrics to almost every track on that damn disc. You have no idea what it felt like when I actually finished the Pentium and booted the thing up. I remember how much I hate XP back then too, but with that I kenw I would get used to it, still didn't stop me digging out my Pentium II and using 98SE at every oppurtunity.

I have some old HDDs around, I might install 7 on one in the Pentium D and give it one last shot, that is, if I can get setup to run, for some reason when I boot the CD in that system it says NTLDR missing before it even does anything. Maybe trying to use it for more productive tasks will make me get used to it, but it seriously bugs me how much more clicks it takes just to get the same stuff done. If I still don't get on with it after a month, I'll try and eBay sell what I had for the Xeon and start saving for a Mac instead, that Xeon was going to be my last build anyway, I was always going to buy a Mac when that system had run it's course.

[Person of Color]

edit

[High Treason]

Probably will do at a later time, but there's only a handful of parts before my "collection" is complete (at least stuff I care about) and I'm determined to complete it before that. I have most of the really rare stuff now, my console collection is complete (It wouldn't be to some people, but stuff I want is done, everything else can get lost) so for the most part it's a small number of PC parts that I've always wanted to play with; a few less common CPUs, two sound cards and motherboards to support those. I'm going to cut corners and use AT backplates in ATX cases for the last couple of legacy systems, can't afford AT cases now. It's actually quite exciting, ten years ago I thought I'd never own most of this stuff. I am writing a few things off my list, such as the CM-32L as I now own an MT-32 and they aren't much different.

I've noticed the market, I always keep one eye on it, this is why I want to get it completed soon, the prices are quickly getting out of my range. I was, however, shocked to discover that the box of gold-top processors I bought for £1.99 each seems to have appreciated in value, at least as scrap gold... I can't bring myself to do that to anything that works though, it's a waste. Believe me, those components are almost double that over here, they simply don't exist. In short, I'm not about to make a loss if I do sell anything. Think I might get rid of the boxed Voodoo 1 though, I never use that thing - I fall into the catagory of people that don't like the 3DFX cards, this is not uncommon for people who enthuse over the demoscene.

This is going to sound arrogant as hell, but people around me always frowned upon me keeping and collecting this stuff, I always knew I'd have the last laugh and believe me, I am doing right now.

I can never bring myself to sell everything, I dislike playing DOS games in DOSBox, never sounds right and something just feels... wrong.

[Forge]

get a room you two

you're boring me to tears

[Kathy]

I feel that if most of the people here literaly were to "get a room" it would result in some hot encounters. I'd personally do several members here.

[Person of Color]

Forge, on 01 April 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

get a room you two

you're boring me to tears

I was already bored by his third post...

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I feel that if most of the people here literaly were to "get a room" it would result in some hot encounters. I'd personally do several members here.

This forum is the definition of sausage fest. Unfortunately, even the sausage is past it's sell by date.

[Alan]

[Sangman]

I watched that movie in a hotel abroad back in November. So completely terrible.

[Kathy]

What movie is that?

[Forge]

freddie got fingered

i like the elephant scene
"look daddy, i'm a farmer"

[Lunick]

[blackharted3]

 Sangman, on 01 April 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I watched that movie in a hotel abroad back in November. So completely terrible.

I know I'm going to get pointy rocks thrown at me for saying this, but am I the only one who found that movie to be a least a little bit funny?

I've got such a sick sense of humor by the way.

Oh that "new" DNF 2001 trailer is awesome, and very well done.

[Alan]

 Sangman, on 01 April 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I watched that movie in a hotel abroad back in November. So completely terrible.

Oh I agree, it's one of the worst movies ever made. But there were brief, although fleeting, moments of hilarity.

[Forge]

 Alan, on 02 April 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

Oh I agree, it's one of the worst movies ever made. But there were brief, although fleeting, moments of hilarity.

this

if you want brain aneurisms watch freddie got fingered and cabin boy back to back

[Alan]

If I want brain aneurisms I just try to get through the first 30 minutes of Battlefield Earth.

[Sangman]

 Alan, on 02 April 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

Oh I agree, it's one of the worst movies ever made. But there were brief, although fleeting, moments of hilarity.

Some movies, like The Room, are so bad they're hilarious and good on some level. Freddie Got Fingered is not one of those movies... It's just... bad.

[blackharted3]

As I said, I found it a bit chuckle worthy.

Yes I'm very strange lol!

[Sangman]

 Duel, on 02 April 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

Yes I'm very strange lol!

Oh who gives a crap.


Lol! Roflmao

[Person of Color]

Fucking sellouts.

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