[Aristotle Gumball]

Jimmy 100MPH, on 25 April 2019 - 02:56 PM, said:

When in fact the truth is that we can't trust anyone with these weapons. Anyone who speaks otherwise has been brainwashed by a big bully with power to enable them to keep their power, and make sure no one else gains any power.

Pretty much. My quick rebuttal to the "US are the good guys" argument:

United States involvement in regime change
Unethical human experimentation in the United States (I love the one about contaminating the subways and flying planes over cities, dumping chemicals on unsuspecting civilians)

This isn't to say that other countries given the same power wouldn't behave similarly (they have, historically), but I agree with Putin here, the balance of power and the possibility of mutually assured destruction ensures some level of decency in geopolitics. It's always good to remember that we live in a world that's inherently violent.

[Noddy]

Quote

when Tito president of Yugoslavia refused to be part of Soviet Block and Stalin sent Soviet troops ito Hungarian-Yugoslavian border, but for some reason chaos was prevented somehow

So um, yay Tito. Joke aside, I really think we dodged a bullet then. The reason the chaos and invasion were prevented, was because the Korean War was starting.

Quote

very pro-Russian

Me too, to some degree. But now I support or more precisely rooting for Trump and Putin. Because I just want to see if how he will fix the immigration problem, and how will he deal with the deep state and other corruption in the States. May I suggest that you join Gab, it is more suitable for political discussion. A little warning about Gab: due to censorship on Facebook and Twitter, people speak their minds more openly, and don't censor themselves.

Quote

But they absolutely have a right to defend themselves and bear arms, and that includes cutting edge experimental weaponry.

And they should, just like the US. Well, until Democrats start to ban weapons, and ignore the constitution.

[Fox]

Hendricks266, on 25 April 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

We're not. The US nuclear arsenal is aging and most efforts are focused on maintaining the tech we already have. Don't forget that your favorite president is the one responsible for withdrawing from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, in part thanks to having a chickenhawk like John Bolton as his National Security Advisor.

Doesn't matter, the US arsenal is still a treat. If anything, the lack of maintenance makes them unstable, and messier to mess with.

[Mark]

[quote name='thricecursed' timestamp='1556210813' post='320521']
Putin... he's somebody who doesn't want nuclear war (unlike certain psychopaths at Washington)

Who might that be? The Western media that you don't trust are the ones spreading that kind of crap about Trump and Republicans.

[LeoD]

The US nuclear arsenal...

[LakiSoft]

My point is that Americans shall made a chocie.

1.) Back off from Syria and let Russia do the job and deal with terrorists

2.) Wake up and start working together with Russians in order to bring peace back in Syria.

Instead of doing and causing chaos all around the world, US Goverment is secrely wroking with ISIL terrosits solding them a weapons. AMking fake propaganda how Bashar El Essad is usign chemical weapons and how he is cruel animal dictator, jsut becauseh e on Putin's side and side of justice. Those innocent people in Syria are payign their lives just because of USA not wanting to cooprate and isntead helping ISIL terrorist. Why the Syrian peole did wrong? Just because they won't THEIR OWN OIL? USA already stolen oil from everywhere from world already, this is why oil is cheap in United States.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Mark, on 26 April 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

Who might that be? The Western media that you don't trust are the ones spreading that kind of crap about Trump and Republicans.

I am referring to what's been the case in Washington historically, not just now, and while I don't trust what they say about Trump, I also don't really like Trump or the Republicans. I was one of those left leaning individuals who would've voted for Trump (if I was American) simply because he was the lesser of two evils and had more of a chance of winning than Sanders who says things like, "white people don't know what it's like to be poor", even though politically/economically I'm closer to him than the other two choices. He simply didn't inspire confidence whatsoever. Trump at least is different or has managed to slow certain trajectories that would've accelerated under Clinton. Nothing's ideal, though, and I think Trump is slowly falling prey to the same forces that marked Obama's presidency.

PS. When I claim to be left leaning, what this means to me is I'm a socialist in the classic sense, advocating for worker's rights, including ownership of the means of production. I fell into some weird territory when Neo-Marxist ideology took over the debate and this happened in my social group even. Suddenly everything became about race and gender. Marx' distinguished only two classes - the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. In this dichotomy, one can become the other (a poor person can become rich and vice versa), whereas in Neo-Marxist doctrine, white heterosexual males are ALWAYS oppressors and more privileged than other groups. Gender and skin color are immutable qualities, and quibbling over such things inevitably leads to conflict. Michelle Obama is more oppressed than a white, male coal miner for example. Idiocy.

[Forge]

Gingis Khan, on 26 April 2019 - 05:35 AM, said:

Instead of doing and causing chaos all around the world, US Goverment is secrely wroking with ISIL terrosits solding them a weapons. AMking fake propaganda how Bashar El Essad is usign chemical weapons and how he is cruel animal dictator, jsut becauseh e on Putin's side and side of justice. Those innocent people in Syria are payign their lives just because of USA not wanting to cooprate and isntead helping ISIL terrorist. Why the Syrian peole did wrong? Just because they won't THEIR OWN OIL? USA already stolen oil from everywhere from world already, this is why oil is cheap in United States.

not about the oil
it's about destabilizing an iranian ally that borders israel, regardless of who takes over afterwards. If the results aren't favorable, spin the wheel again. Kill more civilians. That's how u.s. foreign policy has worked since the late 40's.

[Sledgehammer]

The problem about Trump is that he's very loyal to Israel (and have yet to fulfill most of his main campaign promises, immigration promise the most notable one).

Gingis Khan, on 26 April 2019 - 05:35 AM, said:

My point is that Americans shall made a chocie.

1.) Back off from Syria and let Russia do the job and deal with terrorists

2.) Wake up and start working together with Russians in order to bring peace back in Syria.

[LakiSoft]

I do know Israel and USA are loyal to each other, but i am little bit confused. My nation of Southern Slavs, Serbs, have respect with Jews, as Serbs and Jews had fallen thru same horrible fate in WW2. Jews remember Serbs as a friends and feel empathy with us even today, and they know Serbia and Russia are both Slavic. Then why Isral is working against any Slavs? I know UK and USA helped alot to Israel, by making a Jewish country over Palestine's territory. Which me, as I an USA Goverment hater, DO RESPECT BECAUSE JEWS DESERVED TO HAVE THEIR OWN COUNTRY AFTER SUFFERITNG THEY HAD IN WORLD WAR II! The only actual good thing UK and USA did the one nation. But again Palestenians were damaged here. And why the fuck everyone is messing with Iran anyway, just because it's Russian ally? Seriously this politics are fucked up and confuses me. I really though Crisis in Syria is all about oil, never knew it was because of "being Iranian ally" as Forge explained. Seriously this is some confusing stuff. When friend of my enemy is actual my friend? Serbia cosndier USA enemy because of 1999 NATO bombing, but we consider Jews brothers, but they respect USA, really fucked up man. Again i still think USA Goverment shall back from Syria and back from Iran too. It's not their buissness.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Gingis Khan, on 26 April 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:

Which me, as I an USA Goverment hater, DO RESPECT BECAUSE JEWS DESERVED TO HAVE THEIR OWN COUNTRY AFTER SUFFERITNG THEY HAD IN WORLD WAR II! The only actual good thing UK and USA did the one nation. But again Palestenians were damaged here.

Two wrongs don't make a right, bro.

[Forge]

Gingis Khan, on 26 April 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:

I do know Israel and USA are loyal to each other, but i am little bit confused. My nation of Southern Slavs, Serbs, have respect with Jews, as Serbs and Jews had fallen thru same horrible fate in WW2. Jews remember Serbs as a friends and feel empathy with us even today, and they know Serbia and Russia are both Slavic. Then why Isral is working against any Slavs? I know UK and USA helped alot to Israel, by making a Jewish country over Palestine's territory. Which me, as I an USA Goverment hater, DO RESPECT BECAUSE JEWS DESERVED TO HAVE THEIR OWN COUNTRY AFTER SUFFERITNG THEY HAD IN WORLD WAR II! The only actual good thing UK and USA did the one nation. But again Palestenians were damaged here. And why the fuck everyone is messing with Iran anyway, just because it's Russian ally? Seriously this politics are fucked up and confuses me. I really though Crisis in Syria is all about oil, never knew it was because of "being Iranian ally" as Forge explained. Seriously this is some confusing stuff. When friend of my enemy is actual my friend? Serbia cosndier USA enemy because of 1999 NATO bombing, but we consider Jews brothers, but they respect USA, really fucked up man. Again i still think USA Goverment shall back from Syria and back from Iran too. It's not their buissness.

Palestinian states in that region were allies of Germany in WW II (despite lefties trying to re-write history to erase islamofacism)

you need to look at the history of iran during 1978 thru 1980 to see why they went from u.s. ally to enemy.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Forge, on 26 April 2019 - 06:58 AM, said:

Palestinian states in that region were allies of Germany in WW II (despite lefties trying to re-write history to erase islamofacism)

Nazis were sending German Jews to Palestine, which prompted the 1936-1939 Arab revolt. How were they allies?

[Forge]

thricecursed, on 26 April 2019 - 07:05 AM, said:

Nazis were sending German Jews to Palestine, which prompted the 1936-1939 Arab revolt. How were they allies?

You fail to understand the propaganda.

That flow of jewish immigrants into palestinian land was blamed on the British.

The germans used common ground they had with the palestinians to manipulate and use them as "allies" to control the region: anti-french colonization. anti-british colonization, and socio-political ideology (superiority over the jewish people).

After WW I germany got shafted by the allies & so did the ottoman empire.

[Aristotle Gumball]

I'm just talking about your claim that they were allied with Germany in WW 2, the only evidence I've seen given is the Mufti's refusal to accept any Jews into Palestine, AFTER the revolt, which was itself motivated by Germans pushing Jews into Palestine. You're saying Germany was playing some kind of long con, OK, so you understand it wasn't exactly the Palestinians fault what ended up happening to them?

[Forge]

thricecursed, on 26 April 2019 - 07:45 AM, said:

so you understand it wasn't exactly the Palestinians fault what ended up happening to them?

never said it was.
the greedy french and british never should have diced up the ottoman empire after WW I like they did. It left that region vulnerable to the same propaganda that the german people were subject to - socialist-nationalism and superiority complex

[Aristotle Gumball]

Forge, on 26 April 2019 - 08:00 AM, said:

never said it was.
the greedy french and british never should have diced up the ottoman empire after WW I like they did. It left that region vulnerable to the same propaganda that the german people were subject to - socialist-nationalism and superiority complex

Ah, alright. Yeah, I totally agree.

[Hendricks266]

Gingis Khan, on 25 April 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

Also speaking of my case, i am from little Slavic country Serbia, which was bombed in year 1999 by NATO, mostly backed by Clitnon's Administration of USA by that time and German politicians. Clinton in order to make a good reason for bombing my country sent his CIA Agent William Walker to stage Racak Massacre, as it to look like we massacred Albanian civlians in Kosovo province, even if thesse corposes were actually UCK Terrorist, killed off by Serbian police mostly. Yes we killed Albanian but only terrorist maniacs, not innocent civilians like Western media is potrayting. CLinton and Walker were fucking liars.

I have not researched this at all, but what you're saying sounds suspiciously like far-right historical revisionism, similar to how Weimar Germany was beset by conspiracy theories that the country did not need to surrender at the end of WWI and actually could have continued fighting, despite that being far removed from the truth. These theories went on to follow the "blame the 'other'" pattern of xenophobia, in this case targeting the Jewish population.

thricecursed, on 25 April 2019 - 11:25 PM, said:

Pretty much. My quick rebuttal to the "US are the good guys" argument:

United States involvement in regime change
Unethical human experimentation in the United States (I love the one about contaminating the subways and flying planes over cities, dumping chemicals on unsuspecting civilians)

No argument here whatsoever. The US has done tons of bad things over its history.

But hey, if they hadn't taken Puerto Rico from Spain, I wouldn't be here. ¡Viva América!

Gingis Khan, on 26 April 2019 - 05:35 AM, said:

Instead of doing and causing chaos all around the world, US Goverment is secrely wroking with ISIL terrosits solding them a weapons.

[citation needed]

[High Treason]

Hendricks266, on 26 April 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

Targeting the Jewish population.

Because we all know that Jews are the only group throughout history who are completely innocent and would never do anything bad.




Well this thread sure exploded, seems I managed to invoke a somewhat coherent discussion instead of it looking like a lonely middle-aged woman's living room in here for once. All that aside, I still think slav women are among the ugliest on this earth.

[Aristotle Gumball]

High Treason, on 26 April 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

[size=2]
All that aside, I still think slav women are among the ugliest on this earth.

Which ethnicity? Just all slavs?

[Forge]

[Sledgehammer]

[Zaxtor]

We need more bees as "voxels" for Duke



More live bees

[Forge]

[Noddy]

Quote

I have not researched this at all, but what you're saying sounds suspiciously like far-right historical revisionism

The sad thing is that he is not making it up, or doing any kind of historical revisionism. That is pretty much the sad truth. Also, there are several things that he failed to mention, 1.) There were several Western (German and French) documentaries that go into detail how the war was based on a lie. 2.) The Finish pathologist Helen Ranta who worked on the case said that there wasn't enough evidence to claim that the Racak massacre happened (the cause for the war), 3.) William Walker was mad at her for not getting enough evidence and started a fight with here.
I'm surprised he didn't mention the organ theft or the bombing of the national television, or the 2004 unrest.

Concerning, Ramus Haradinaj he was cleared in Hague, AFTER all of the witnesses were found dead. This was also stated in the court ruling. This, of course, prompted a huge controversy, when the Hague said it is what it is, and it is a huge shame for the court.
I don't blame you for not knowing all of the facts in this fairly short conflict, but this is a part of a long and complicated problem. Also, Gingis Khan has failed to mention, that because of the oppressive nature of the communist regime and incompetence, the Albanians in Kosovo had mass riots twice once in the '60s and the other in the '80s. Of course, this led to more incarcerations of anyone who mentioned Kosovo and Republic in the same sentence, and other discriminations. Talking to some Albanians, I can tell you that they are nostalgic for the old days, because then everyone had money and jobs, and now Kosovo is pretty much a failed state. Anyway, this is just my opinion.

Quote

I still think slav women are among the ugliest on this earth

Bro, where are you from? Anyway, just come and visit Serbia, and I'm sure you will see a lot of beautiful women. But, I guess there are beautiful women everywhere, it's all a matter of perspective.
Here is a preview, and this is just normal, everyday women:





And for the military version:





If you ever visit Serbia, the drinks are on me

[LakiSoft]

Hendricks266, on 26 April 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

I have not researched this at all, but what you're saying sounds suspiciously like far-right historical revisionism, similar to how Weimar Germany was beset by conspiracy theories that the country did not need to surrender at the end of WWI and actually could have continued fighting, despite that being far removed from the truth. These theories went on to follow the "blame the 'other'" pattern of xenophobia, in this case targeting the Jewish population.


No argument here whatsoever. The US has done tons of bad things over its history.

But hey, if they hadn't taken Puerto Rico from Spain, I wouldn't be here. ¡Viva América!


[citation needed]

@hendricks266 Listen it is not first time that goverment of USA tried to destroy Serbia/yugoslavia. Sicne yugslav broke up wars starter since 1991 USA was behind everything. USA didnt liked strong yuoglsoavia so it decided to support croatian and bosnian seperatist. Yes everyone complans "how Evil Serbs demolished Vukovar" but nobody talks about Operation Storm which ethicly cleaned Serbian national minorities around Croatia, like 250.000 people are either expiled or killed. we will enver fogoet how "brave" croatian pilots bombed a entire colony of tractors of Serbian refuges that were jsut asking entire war and havoc. nobody talks about seriban victims and they always talk how serbs are evil ones. Not to mention Bosnian war, when Naser Oric, Muslim Army leader, btuchered entire Serbian village in areas around Srebrnica and Kravice, the msot digsuting war crime Muslims comited is when they demolised and butchered entire Serbian villages on 7th January, which is Ortodox Christmas, as msot of world celebrates on 26th december. They did this chaos jsut on7thJanuary to insult Serbian religion and humilate us worst as possbile. Then later, as reply and revenge to this crimes, Bosnian Serbs did Srebrenica, which of course i don't support, but i can udnerstand they woudned feeling when they acted like this. Yet nobody mentions what Naser Oric to Serb civilians, but they do mention Mladic, Karadzic and other as "bloody Muslim killers" Naser oric kill men, women, children, expiling their eyes, cuttign ther heads and many digustign ways. Serbs at least didn't killed muslim Women and Children only men. That is big difference. Yes Naser Oric is released from Hague Tribunal while Serb general are kept there? sounds like totally hypocrytes here. bastards.
Of course let's notfrogt Kosovo. How CIA Agent Wlliam Walker staged Racak Massacre to look like "How evil Serbs butchered innocnet Albanian civlians jsut ebcause of their ethncity" But only real truth and fact is that those corpses were Albnaian UCK Terrorist seperatist killedo ff by Serbian police. William Walker order to change cloathing to those corpses so they lok like innoent civilians. If you really wonder who killed civlilans in Kosovo, both of Albanian and Serbian ethcnity, that was infamous terrosit bastard such as Ramush Haradinaj, Hashim Thaqi, Agem Cheku and other sick bastards. Hardinaj killed more Albanians that he killed Serbs. Yet the albanian civilians killed are blamed on Serbs which didn't done anything wrong. Whenver uCK Terrosit would kill Albanian civilinas, in Albania, on Radio Tirana they sent false information how Serbs were killing Albanian civilians and this is how propaganda was made. The western world got the picture how Serbs were the bad one, even if they were victims. Serbs were killed, tortured, expiled by Albanian terroist, often kileld on msot barbaric ways and their organs were old in ifmaous yellow Houses in Albania. Human organ traffciing is crime as iknow, but this didn't stop Clinton's administation of USA at that time, to back Albanian UCK Terrorist side and kill more Serb and Anti-Fascist Albanians they copuld. Yes i consider Clinton and UCK Albanian terrorist a fascists, they make no differece from Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Ante Pavelic, Franesco Franco, etc.. Kosovo was historical alnd of Slavs\Serbs, Albanians only appeared there in such a big amont after WW2. Thus because Adolf Hitler Nazi Germany occupied Yugoslavia and supported Croatian Nazis, Bosnian Muslims nazis and Albanian NAzis. Yes they all were Nazis. And yet WW2 Croatia and Albania declared a war on USA back then, but now recently in 1990s same USA backsvery same Nazi Croatia and Nazi Albania to desotry their former friend Serbia. Yes USA and Serbia used to be friends both in WW1 and WW2. in WW1 there was even Serbian flagat White House. Wurdo Wilson respected Serbia. But look lile Clinton was more Nazi in his ideologies so he supported Nazis such as Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Albanian in order to destory former friend of America, and that is Serbia. I think this video says everything with self, the guy who talks about all this is Jew!

[Noddy]

@ Gingis Khan

I get what you are saying, and not everything is always fair. But, in my opinion, and don't get me wrong, you can't stay mad at US forever. It's bad for the health, and for the soul. And, you know what's the worst thing about all this: Nobody in the US, doesn't remember and doesn't care. They have so many active wars and conflicts, that they don't even remember the bombing that lasted for 3 months, 20 years ago. Sad truth, I know, but I think that US can even remember all the wars they have been involved in. I just don't blame the average American people, they are demonized enough in the media (both foreign and domestic), and the more I get to know them, the more I can see that they are normal people, just like you and me.
Pozdrav brate

[LakiSoft]

Noddy, on 27 April 2019 - 05:08 AM, said:

@ Gingis Khan

I get what you are saying, and not everything is always fair. But, in my opinion, and don't get me wrong, you can't stay mad at US forever. It's bad for the health, and for the soul. And, you know what's the worst thing about all this: Nobody in the US, doesn't remember and doesn't care. They have so many active wars and conflicts, that they don't even remember the bombing that lasted for 3 months, 20 years ago. Sad truth, I know, but I think that US can even remember all the wars they have been involved in. I just don't blame the average American people, they are demonized enough in the media (both foreign and domestic), and the more I get to know them, the more I can see that they are normal people, just like you and me.
Pozdrav brate

@Noddy I totally agree here brate. Don't worry i don't blame American people for crimes of their goverment. As you said they are just normal people like everyone else. But the thing is that i may sound a bit too much extremist and too pro-Russian, and even more pro-Russian compared most of Serbs, is probably because that i am also partly Russian. Yes i am not pure Serb, but i am pure Slav. I am Serb, Russian and Rusyn. My great-great-grandfather who supproted White Army, was running for his life thanks to community read army bolshevik bastard. He escaped from Sankt Peterburg (Petrovgrad) to Serbia\Yugoslavia where he meet my great-great-grandmother, of Rusyn ethnicity. Note as far as i kow Rusyns are more or less the Russians of Vojvodina. However for some reason, even being Russian from an family side, none ever spoke Russian to me and i never spoke it either therefor. I don't even know Russian. Nobody even has that Russian accent or something. But we know our ancestors, we know we are Russians of Serbia. This is may be a little overreact, even more than pure Serbs, over USA goverment and injstuice that not only caused to us but to the entire world.

Anyway on bright side, speaking of good and well-informed nice Americans, Charles Cather is way to go. His videos about Serbia are awesome!



Pozdrav brate. Zdravstvuj brat!

[Sledgehammer]

America and especially CIA learned a lot since Vietnam and most importantly from Afghanistan along with Iran situation. CIA supplied terrorist in Chechnya as well, when it comes to muslims it was almost on the same level as during Yugoslav Wars. Not sure about bombings though.

[Forge]

Noddy, on 27 April 2019 - 05:08 AM, said:

I get what you are saying, and not everything is always fair. But, in my opinion, and don't get me wrong, you can't stay mad at US forever. It's bad for the health, and for the soul. And, you know what's the worst thing about all this: Nobody in the US, doesn't remember and doesn't care. They have so many active wars and conflicts, that they don't even remember the bombing that lasted for 3 months, 20 years ago. Sad truth, I know, but I think that US can even remember all the wars they have been involved in. I just don't blame the average American people, they are demonized enough in the media (both foreign and domestic), and the more I get to know them, the more I can see that they are normal people, just like you and me.
Pozdrav brate

most liberal progressives in the u.s. don't remember or care about the 9/11 attacks that happened on their own soil, let a lone what they view as a minor conflict in some obscure part of the world (if they even know about it). Most people here under 30 can't even point out Hungary, Romania, Serbia, or the Ukraine on a globe without using an app on their smart-phone.