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DNF #1
Duke 3D #1
Just curious if this has been tried. I was surprised that up/down aiming was still handled automatically in the face of all the other insane updates to DN3D that have been made.
true vertical aiming "Has it been done?"
#3 Posted 15 February 2011 - 01:17 AM
Micky C, on Feb 15 2011, 04:06 AM, said:
Switch off auto-aim.
I looked for that under game settings, keyboard settings, and the dukeplus menus and couldn't find it, which is why I figured it didn't exist.
And... still don't see it.
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#4 Posted 15 February 2011 - 01:21 AM
Options -> Player setup. You might have to hit it a few times to make it so all weapons have auto-aim switched off, unless you want the rockets to do that specifically. You'll figure it out when you see it 
#5 Posted 15 February 2011 - 02:31 AM
Micky C, on Feb 15 2011, 04:21 AM, said:
Options -> Player setup. You might have to hit it a few times to make it so all weapons have auto-aim switched off, unless you want the rockets to do that specifically. You'll figure it out when you see it
Ah, thanx for that. Never thought to look in there. I always remembered that just being multiplayer settings.
#6 Posted 15 February 2011 - 05:18 AM
I hate playing Duke with the aim assist off. Then again, I only play in software mode, where looking up or down isn't really practical anyway.
#7 Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:27 AM
trencheel303, on Feb 15 2011, 08:18 AM, said:
I hate playing Duke with the aim assist off. Then again, I only play in software mode, where looking up or down isn't really practical anyway.
Auto-aim always drove me crazy in these older games. There were always these annoying situations where auto-aim wouldn't actually put the shots where they needed to be in order to hit a target, forcing some ridiculous compensation. The easiest place to find this is walking into the movie foyer in E1L1. I can never hit the trooper behind the counter unless I get right in front of him. On auto-aim, the bullets will just keep hitting the counter instead of him. It also shows up a lot trying to hit moving targets with slow projectiles.
(I also wanted to experiment with ballistic weapons though)
This post has been edited by wayskobfssae: 15 February 2011 - 08:33 AM
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#8 Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:46 AM
wayskobfssae, on Feb 15 2011, 08:27 AM, said:
The easiest place to find this is walking into the movie foyer in E1L1. I can never hit the trooper behind the counter unless I get right in front of him. On auto-aim, the bullets will just keep hitting the counter instead of him. It also shows up a lot trying to hit moving targets with slow projectiles.
Right, because auto-aim always goes for the chest.
As a modder, I hate auto-aim. For example, if I want my mod to have headshots, I have to turn off autoaim for it to work (I actually do this for the sniper shots in WGR2). I have to save the player's auto-aim setting in a variable, turn it off while they are using the scope, and then restore their setting afterwords.
Auto-aim makes you miss if the middle of the enemy is not visible. It also makes locational damage impossible, not just headshots. Another example: In my Attrition mod, I have bullet wounds that spawn on the exact locations that your bullets hit enemies. So if you shoot them in the leg, a wound appears on their leg and it keeps bleeding there for a while. But if the player has auto-aim on, all the shots go right to the middle of the chest, and it looks stupid (not to mention being less satisfying).
Auto-aim on rockets is also bad, because once again it goes for the chest. The best place to fire a rocket is at the enemy's feet. That way if you miss, it hits the ground next to them and they still take a lot of splash damage.
Auto-aim sucks, and I would disable it in all of my mods but I know it would piss off all those auto-aim lovers.
#9 Posted 15 February 2011 - 01:28 PM
DeeperThought, on Feb 15 2011, 11:46 AM, said:
Right, because auto-aim always goes for the chest.
As a modder, I hate auto-aim. For example, if I want my mod to have headshots, I have to turn off autoaim for it to work (I actually do this for the sniper shots in WGR2). I have to save the player's auto-aim setting in a variable, turn it off while they are using the scope, and then restore their setting afterwords.
Auto-aim sucks, and I would disable it in all of my mods but I know it would piss off all those auto-aim lovers.
As a modder, I hate auto-aim. For example, if I want my mod to have headshots, I have to turn off autoaim for it to work (I actually do this for the sniper shots in WGR2). I have to save the player's auto-aim setting in a variable, turn it off while they are using the scope, and then restore their setting afterwords.
Auto-aim sucks, and I would disable it in all of my mods but I know it would piss off all those auto-aim lovers.
Aye. I really don't know why anyone would want to use auto-aim these days - not on a the PC platform anyhow. After so many years of gaming with trueaim, I find auto to be more of a hindrance than a help. I'd disable it too.
This post has been edited by wayskobfssae: 15 February 2011 - 01:28 PM
#12 Posted 15 February 2011 - 04:45 PM
I've been searching high and low for an explanation to this one, and this topic is somewhat relevant...
Is there some way to make mouse look work at a full 180 degrees from straight down at your feet to straight up into the sky? This is the only game where I feel like I'm running around with a neck brace.
Is there some way to make mouse look work at a full 180 degrees from straight down at your feet to straight up into the sky? This is the only game where I feel like I'm running around with a neck brace.
#13 Posted 15 February 2011 - 04:59 PM
Mad Max RW, on Feb 15 2011, 07:45 PM, said:
I've been searching high and low for an explanation to this one, and this topic is somewhat relevant...
Is there some way to make mouse look work at a full 180 degrees from straight down at your feet to straight up into the sky? This is the only game where I feel like I'm running around with a neck brace.
Is there some way to make mouse look work at a full 180 degrees from straight down at your feet to straight up into the sky? This is the only game where I feel like I'm running around with a neck brace.
to answer your question
http://wiki.eduke32....iki/Mouse_setup
all other questions to play the game
http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/Main_Page
I can't find that link fast either either, it should be sticky?
This post has been edited by Hank: 15 February 2011 - 04:59 PM
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#14 Posted 15 February 2011 - 05:02 PM
None of these links answer his question, though. The answer is no, unfortunately. The engine uses an annoying coordinate system for vertical aiming, so that would have to be reworked (and some changes made to the game code) before being able to look straight up or down. The renderer supports it, though; so that wouldn't prevent any progress to be made on that front.
#15 Posted 15 February 2011 - 05:55 PM
Plagman, on Feb 15 2011, 08:02 PM, said:
None of these links answer his question, though. The answer is no, unfortunately. The engine uses an annoying coordinate system for vertical aiming, so that would have to be reworked (and some changes made to the game code) before being able to look straight up or down. The renderer supports it, though; so that wouldn't prevent any progress to be made on that front.
Interesting. At least now I know I'm not missing some obscure console commands. Hopefully it's investigated further, but I'll live.
#16 Posted 15 February 2011 - 06:30 PM
Hmm, thought I was playing all this time with autoaim on. Turns out I had it off lol
#17 Posted 15 February 2011 - 06:35 PM
Mad Max RW, on Feb 15 2011, 08:55 PM, said:
Interesting. At least now I know I'm not missing some obscure console commands. Hopefully it's investigated further, but I'll live.
While it might be fun to do, it would probably look pretty bad... even moreso than things sometimes look currently at extreme angles. Sprites would completely disappear when looking straight up or down.
#18 Posted 16 February 2011 - 07:16 AM
wayskobfssae, on Feb 15 2011, 09:35 PM, said:
While it might be fun to do, it would probably look pretty bad... even moreso than things sometimes look currently at extreme angles. Sprites would completely disappear when looking straight up or down.
True, but the 3d models from the HRP eliminate that problem. It's the same with the various Doom source ports that add proper 180 degree mouselook. You can always switch back to sprites, and I do when I'm in the mood for the "pure" experience. Personally, I don't think it makes any sense to leave an obsolete design decision by 3D Realms in a source port that brought everything else up to today's tech standards.
#19 Posted 16 February 2011 - 09:01 AM
From my brief experience (I am not big fan of Multiplayer) of playing MP in Duke (with xDuke {the most popular Duke port for Multiplayer} via Meltdown {connector for joining Duke netgames}) I learned fact that almost everybody use auto-aim with disabled mouse aiming in MP. That was the reason why I was fragged constantly. I hate auto-aim without mouse aiming.
BTW U and I were always my first used keys in original Dos Duke after launching game first time.
BTW U and I were always my first used keys in original Dos Duke after launching game first time.
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#20 Posted 16 February 2011 - 09:24 AM
Plagman, on Feb 15 2011, 11:02 PM, said:
The engine uses an annoying coordinate system for vertical aiming, so that would have to be reworked (and some changes made to the game code) before being able to look straight up or down.
Duke3D look up and down method is quite simply. The game adds a vertical velocity of the projectile, which replicates an angle.
However the game doesn't change the horizontal velocity. So for example a projectile with a speed of X fired at an angle of 45º will be given a vertical speed also of X.
Despite the discrepancy of true 3D speed of a projectile fired by this algorithm (i.e. at 45º the actual speed equal to √2 of the 0º speed), it's technically impossible to fire a projectile at 90º since that will means the vertical speed would be infinite.
Plagman, on Feb 15 2011, 11:02 PM, said:
The renderer supports it, though; so that wouldn't prevent any progress to be made on that front.
Yeah, in the classic mode it's impossible to look straight up, due to the "2.5D" engine.
However Polymer (and perhaps Polymost?) doesn't have that kind of limitation.
This post has been edited by Fox: 16 February 2011 - 09:25 AM
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#21 Posted 16 February 2011 - 09:27 AM
Autoaim kicks ass. (I agree that for certain mods it's a hindrance, though.)
Reworking the tangent-based horiz stuff for angles would be more trouble than it's worth IMO. What of the mods that do caculations based on it? Besides, how often do you really have to look that far up or down?
Reworking the tangent-based horiz stuff for angles would be more trouble than it's worth IMO. What of the mods that do caculations based on it? Besides, how often do you really have to look that far up or down?
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#22 Posted 16 February 2011 - 09:30 AM
Yeah, you'd need to keep an annoying compatibility layer to still be able to old the run code that deals with the old coordinates. It could be a forward-compatible thing, though; it's still mostly game-land work, so not interested. Patches welcome!
#23 Posted 16 February 2011 - 10:06 AM
Helixhorned, on Feb 16 2011, 12:27 PM, said:
Autoaim kicks ass. (I agree that for certain mods it's a hindrance, though.)
Reworking the tangent-based horiz stuff for angles would be more trouble than it's worth IMO. What of the mods that do caculations based on it? Besides, how often do you really have to look that far up or down?
Reworking the tangent-based horiz stuff for angles would be more trouble than it's worth IMO. What of the mods that do caculations based on it? Besides, how often do you really have to look that far up or down?
Might've come in handy for one of my map levels I'm doing, which is essentially a vertical shaft with platforms and rising lava. Easily worked around, but it'd be cool if the player could look straight up and see just how vast it is.
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#24 Posted 16 February 2011 - 04:44 PM
Mad Max RW, on Feb 16 2011, 10:16 AM, said:
True, but the 3d models from the HRP eliminate that problem. It's the same with the various Doom source ports that add proper 180 degree mouselook. You can always switch back to sprites, and I do when I'm in the mood for the "pure" experience.
What? No they don't. The obvious solution is to add sprite billboarding, like various Doom ports.
Mad Max RW, on Feb 16 2011, 10:16 AM, said:
Personally, I don't think it makes any sense to leave an obsolete design decision by 3D Realms in a source port that brought everything else up to today's tech standards.
This is honestly one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever read in my life.
#25 Posted 16 February 2011 - 04:57 PM
Captain Awesome, on Feb 16 2011, 07:44 PM, said:
What? No they don't. The obvious solution is to add sprite billboarding, like various Doom ports.
This is honestly one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever read in my life.
This is honestly one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever read in my life.
Oh you're the resident troll on these boards? Hello to you, too.
#26 Posted 16 February 2011 - 05:28 PM
Mad Max RW, on Feb 16 2011, 07:57 PM, said:
Oh you're the resident troll on these boards? Hello to you, too.
As if tossing an unneeded, not to mention, illogical insult at 3DR couldn't be classified as flamebait...
#28 Posted 16 February 2011 - 05:44 PM
Mad Max RW, on Feb 17 2011, 01:57 AM, said:
Oh you're the resident troll on these boards? Hello to you, too.
Well, you will notice i few more of them around here.
#29 Posted 16 February 2011 - 06:07 PM
wayskobfssae, on Feb 16 2011, 08:28 PM, said:
As if tossing an unneeded, not to mention, illogical insult at 3DR couldn't be classified as flamebait...
I wasn't insulting 3DR and never intended it to be construed that way. It's just when I fire up eduke32 with HRP/polymer and all the bells and whistles like bump mapping, 3d models, advanced lighting, high res textures, etc., the only thing that glaringly sticks out for me as a relic of the original engine is the limited mouselook. And it's not even a big deal. So before you jump up my ass how about some people take a breather and re-read your replies before hitting the Submit button.
