[ck3D]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=M49XEW68

[ck3D]

more random combat screens...

[Micky C]

Looks like a very nice map from the screenshots, I hope it's nice and big with a few indoor areas thrown in.

[NerdZilla]

It's good, I liked it. The FX with the back round being black is really nice.

[Lunick]

Mediafire link for you

http://www.mediafire...wu98w7wcn0pig45

[Radar]

Beat it in about 40 minutes. High detail map with a matching mood (dark). I loved the nonlinearity to it. It got sort of confusing at the end, and I had to open it up in Mapster to see how many more 1,1001 dipswitches I had to find. My only other comment may be that some areas were a bit too dark, but once I was done playing I didn't feel that bad about it because I knew it was part of the style. Respawn amount, enemy amount, difficulty, puzzles, weapon amount, health amount, etc. were all good. Other criticism would be dumb to mention since everyone has their own style... In the end an extremely awesome map.

[Shawneth]

I was playing it, I was confused, but great play. Today, everyone expects maps like this to be released, and so doing so, you have done a great job! The puzzle was very confusing, I cheated like, four times, and still I couldn't finish. Perhaps a hint map or a walkthrough?

[Mikko]

oporix, on Feb 5 2011, 09:50 PM, said:

I was playing it, I was confused, but great play. Today, everyone expects maps like this to be released, and so doing so, you have done a great job! The puzzle was very confusing, I cheated like, four times, and still I couldn't finish. Perhaps a hint map or a walkthrough?

Nothing essential is hidden so it's just a matter of going through every location. Viewscreens provide hints.

[Danukem]

This is a great looking map with some fun and nasty battles, and I would expect nothing less from ck3d.

However, the button hunt almost ruined it for me. It is a sprawling map with a lot of details and it's easy for things to hide in plain sight. The areas you need to explore aren't really highlighted and using viewscreens is not easy if you aren't already familiar with the map.

Even the blue access panel, which is not hidden at all, was still difficult to find (Mikko had trouble with that as well). Finding the three buttons can be a big chore; it takes a lot of exploring and it's easy to miss areas. I think I found almost every secret before finding the last button. This is also a flow issue: yes, the battles are fun, but most of the time I ended up running around without an enemy in sight.

It's one of those maps that is more fun to play the 2nd or 3rd time through when you know where everything is. Unfortunately, I doubt that most players will even get through it the first time unless they cheat by reading spoilers or looking in mapster.

[Mikko]

It seems that at least three people (you, Forge & I) missed the blue lock at first, despite it being in plain sight. I had no problems with the buttons though; in fact, I found all of them prior to finding any of the keys. I don't really mind this kind of exploration because nothing was unfairly hidden.

[MetHy]

I think the fact that 3 buttons unlock the book shop should have been hinted, or hinted in a better way.

Other than that I didn't really have much problem... except that, like I said on DN-R, I felt like I was doing something wrong when I was opening rooms with the yellow keys and found out that there was nothing in those rooms and that I had to go back...

I just replayed the map and this time I went into the 2nd half of the map straight away. It worked really well like that too. I enjoyed it more now that I knew what to do. This time I also took my time to LOOK at all the good texture sets, combinaison used, etc. Some really good stuff done I would have never thought of (like using a ground texture for a wall with a different pal and it actually works perfectly, and that's just one example).

[Danukem]

MetHy, on Feb 6 2011, 07:54 AM, said:

I just replayed the map and this time I went into the 2nd half of the map straight away. It worked really well like that too. I enjoyed it more now that I knew what to do.

The map gets better the more times you play it.

But in a way, I think this goes to show that mappers should make level progression very obvious. The thing that makes the map better on a replay is that you know what to do and don't waste time running back and forth across the map looking for stuff. So why not design maps so that players can have that experience the first time they play it? In this case, it would not require moving anything around, just adding a few hints. For example, the blue access panel which almost everyone misses could have a lamp post nearby so the area is lit up ( with shading, of course) so that people will stop to look instead of just walking past the small and unremarkable panel. The door to the library is similarly unremarkable. It doesn't stand out as a door that can be opened. (EDIT: Something else I just thought of; One thing that both the blue keycard door area and the library door area have in common is that you cannot see in through the windows. In this map you can usually see into areas that are possible to enter, so not being able to see in is misleading). When I had found all three buttons I had no idea what I had unlocked and I only checked the library door after a lot of trial and error. I don't think I'm suggesting anything that would take away from the exploration theme or undermine the integrity of the map; there's no reason it can't be made more friendly to players.

[MetHy]

DeeperThought, on Feb 6 2011, 05:52 PM, said:

So why not design maps so that players can have that experience the first time they play it? In this case, it would not require moving anything around, just adding a few hints. For example, the blue access panel which almost everyone misses could have a lamp post nearby so the area is lit up ( with shading, of course) so that people will stop to look instead of just walking past the small and unremarkable panel. The door to the library is similarly unremarkable.

I 100% agree.

At least as far as Duke Nukem 3D is concerned, that's how it should be. Of course in other video games (I'm thinking of the Survival Horror maybe) it could (...should?) be different, but as far as Duke3D is concerned, you expect things to "make sense" and feel natural.

[Gambini]

Yeah good point DT. I know you would like to make things more obvious than i would. But definetely that kind of puzzles require more hints to work.

[ck3D]

thanks for all the feedback on here. I sort of agree with the criticism, I mainly focused on the design for this map and didn't really planify the gameplay in advance. In the end I can definitely see why it can feel pretty random and confusing.

I also see what people mean by saying how Duke 3D maps have to follow a certain tradition, and I agree with it to an extent, however I also don't feel that it's entirely true. It's good to have an OG, almost arcade-like feel to user maps, but every once in a while it's also good to have a more ambitious project that takes some liberties for the sake of experimentation. That's why I tend to divide my releases into two categories of maps, some that tend to stick to the original 3DR style (see AMC Pleaser or Meatball Sub Makin), and others that I can just go nuts with, and try to go my own ways. This map just happens to be part of the last category.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to play this.

[Danukem]

Welcome back, ck3D.

I found the gameplay (i.e. monster & item placement) to be quite good, especially considering how quickly you threw it together. The only thing lacking imo was some obvious visual clues about where the player needed to go (like at the keycard slot that everyone kept walking passed without noticing).

[LeoD]

ck3D, on 29 March 2011 - 03:14 PM, said:

I tend to divide my releases into two categories of maps, some that tend to stick to the original 3DR style (see AMC Pleaser or Meatball Sub Makin), and others that I can just go nuts with, and try to go my own ways.

I like both. Just keep on mapping.

[ck3D]

DeeperThought, on 29 March 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

Welcome back, ck3D.

I found the gameplay (i.e. monster & item placement) to be quite good, especially considering how quickly you threw it together. The only thing lacking imo was some obvious visual clues about where the player needed to go (like at the keycard slot that everyone kept walking passed without noticing).

I can agree with that. It's too bad that I didn't have anytime for having this map beta-tested prior its release, oh well. I will devote more time and thought to such key elements next time.

[Jinroh]

Sweet I love city maps, gonna download this later. ^^ Thanks for the hard work!

[ck3D]

no problem, hope you will like it

[ck3D]

just wanted to bump this because I can, and also because since the last spambot attack on DN-R it seems like I've been banned from that site by accident and I don't really know of anywhere else I could point it out to someone likely to hear about it, so yeah, maybe Puritan also frequents this site or w/e

[The Commander]

I have been banned again from DNR as well, I have no interest in going back.
The forum will die soon enough if not already, Duke4.net is where it is at.

[Forge]

ck3D, on 22 November 2011 - 01:13 AM, said:

just wanted to bump this because I can, and also because since the last spambot attack on DN-R it seems like I've been banned from that site by accident and I don't really know of anywhere else I could point it out to someone likely to hear about it, so yeah, maybe Puritan also frequents this site or w/e

Puritan doesn't come here.

He's fed up with the lack of ability to do anything about what goes on at DN-R because of his restricted mod account. I can e-mail him or post at DN-R and get your account un-banned, but it seems pointless. That ship has been sinking for the last few years and the water is lapping over the railing. Time to swim away.

[ck3D]

I see. To be honest I'm not too keen on duke forums in general or even on marketting my work, DN-R was just useful to me to keep in touch with some people I work with on certain projects who don't necessarily come on here, and for the nostalgia value too. But as long as the site itself and its contents are still accessible, I guess I don't really mind much

[Forge]

ck3D, on 23 November 2011 - 03:14 AM, said:

.... But as long as the site itself and its contents are still accessible, I guess I don't really mind much

enjoy the next 9 months while it lasts. that's when the "lease" is up and I doubt kim will re-new it

[ck3D]

that's a bummer, it has been copied and saved on the duke4.net server for archival purposes by deeperthought though if I remember correctly ?

I remember sending my first emails to Kim with all the maps I had built before even getting internet access so he could put them up on DN-R, I told him I thought the site might be abandoned because of how old the game was, to which he quickly replied that it certainly wasn't and wasn't going down anytime soon... that was almost ten years ago already. gosh

[ck3D]

I just thought of something slightly fucked, for the past few months on DN-R, Puritan has been making updates with 'download' links pointing straight to the forum threads considering that all the recent projects are generally too ambitious in terms of size for their server to handle. Seeing as pretty much everyone (besides a few notorious regulars) now seems to be majorly unable to access the forum on that site, the updates no longer really serve much purpose. I haven't even been to AMC in ages, does this place still exist ? Is MSDN really the last main man standing ?

[Danukem]

IMO it is time that duke4.net had a real, searchable map database, like DNR has, instead of just a subforum for threads about maps. MSDN will never replace the functionality of DNR unless Mikko does the same. The forums on DNR were nice, but forums are a dime a dozen. The real value of DNR is in the searchable map repository.

By the way, in medical lingo, DNR stands for Do Not Resuscitate, which now seems appropriate.

[Merlijn]

AMC still exists, but it has very little activity. I hope there's a way to save DNRs map database, it has so many forgotten maps.

[Mikko]

DeeperThought, on 28 November 2011 - 06:34 PM, said:

IMO it is time that duke4.net had a real, searchable map database, like DNR has, instead of just a subforum for threads about maps. MSDN will never replace the functionality of DNR unless Mikko does the same. The forums on DNR were nice, but forums are a dime a dozen. The real value of DNR is in the searchable map repository.

Are you referring to the feature that allows you to sort maps? That's not really a search function.