[Zaxtor]

Green on chains, nothing wrong in my opinion.
Copper or other similar metal makes green or grey-green when patina forms from oxidation...
Very shiny copper metal makes those colors (depending on what it reflects on)

or

Like AMC TC uses some custom pal trick since tint doesn't work in classic mode
maybe can "hide the green"

[OpenMaw]

Honestly I think it looks great.

[Radar]

The only issue I could imagine there being is in case of palette swaps, like the following:



I understand it's highly unlikely anyone will give the donuts pal 17, but I think it's the principle that matters.

[Borion]

Hi Photonic. I thought you are busy with private life stuff so I started my own version of shrinker.
But since you got your shrinker almost ready, I will keep it for my future mod or sth

[Phredreeke]

Yeah, there are some colors you'd want to avoid if you want compatibility with palswaps.

[Zaxtor]

Donuts looks tasty

[Borion]

Yeah, those orange voxels on blue pal swap look nasty. Will correct it in next few days.

[Jimmy]

It's not really nitpicking, it's more about accuracy to the original art, which is a central theme of this project.

As for the chain, I agree, the greens are definitely there. It's debatable as to whether it's intentional. I think maybe the greens are too dark, could maybe be one shade lighter. The tans and greens get "mistaken" sometimes for each other in Photoshop, so it could have just been an accident of the art being imported into the palette. Duke's art style is somewhat "lazy" with colours compared to Doom, but the upside is it makes the art very "interpretive" for mappers.

Also, it shouldn't be too hard to make an alternate voxel with just the tan colors. Then people could use one or the other as they please.

[Borion]

Fixed donuts:
https://mega.nz/#!06...Mrkt0KPXyEJJdFo

[OpenMaw]

Jimmy 100MPH, on 29 May 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:

It's not really nitpicking, it's more like shit picking.

[Jimmy]

Don't be a turd, I was being serious for once. Passion about these sorts of projects is a very good thing. You can't please everyone but accuracy should be key.

[OpenMaw]

Jimmy 100MPH, on 02 June 2019 - 05:16 PM, said:

Don't be a turd, I was being serious for once. Passion about these sorts of projects is a very good thing. You can't please everyone but accuracy should be key.

Hey, i'm all in the encouragement camp. That's why I think it's silly to get all worked over a couple of pixels on a chain. I'd rather Borion kept himself warping along and producing. He's already made some terrific voxels. Getting hung up on that small stuff is often what stlals people out. Things like that can always be refined later on when the bulk of the work is done. That's just my opinion.

That, and I just felt like being a turd.

[Radar]

I think constructive criticism is very helpful and useful. It's not like we're insulting him or calling him names. He's not going to get upset and quit over reasonable criticism.

Though I get you're just being funny. You are funny.

[Jimmy]

Commando Nukem, on 02 June 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

Hey, i'm all in the encouragement camp. That's why I think it's silly to get all worked over a couple of pixels on a chain. I'd rather Borion kept himself warping along and producing. He's already made some terrific voxels. Getting hung up on that small stuff is often what stlals people out. Things like that can always be refined later on when the bulk of the work is done. That's just my opinion.

That, and I just felt like being a turd.

I agree but do think both sides of the argument had a valid approach to the sprite, which is why I suggested an alternate voxel be produced. Works for everyone.

[Striker]

Borion, on 02 June 2019 - 04:35 PM, said:

Fixed donuts:
https://mega.nz/#!06...Mrkt0KPXyEJJdFo

Good stuff here.

[Borion]

Striker, on 03 June 2019 - 08:31 AM, said:

Good stuff here.

Thanks! About this toilet flushing animation that we talked about, will make it in next few days.

I got couple finished props that need pivot adjustments & in-game testing, will post them later.
Not worn-out version of chain is among them, so we can move on.

EDIT:

I don't know where this angry emoticon in the beginning of my post came from - probably clicked sth by accident

[Zaxtor]

the bouncy mine, was the privot issues solve yet?

Mine is damn beautiful from the sample photo you've shown on May 24

PS
Can't wait for the animated toilet so I can replace the ordinary boring toilet of Duke and recode it so it works with the frames

[Borion]

Zaxtor, on 03 June 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

the bouncy mine, was the privot issues solve yet?

The pivot adjustment problem is not solved. Same for Atomic Health. This is deeper problem that will also affect all future conversions of animated objects, so "brute forcing" it is less than perfect...
It is caused by couple thing that were already mentioned, but I will repeat them in simpler form:
1) hardcoded offsets change with each frame (because sprite frames vary in size)

2) sprite frames sizes and their voxel counterparts have different sizes - no copy pasting offsets from sprites possible

3) pivots require adjusting in SLAB6, but it doesn't support multi-object editing and there is no software for previewing KVX sequences.
Well, there is EDuke32, but we can't see animation unaffected by hardcoded offsets, so there is no telling what we do...

There is also other thing. I want this objects to be usable in Ion Storm and non-DN3D based mods. If they (actors) will be adjusted for hardcoded pivots of DN3D, they will be only good as replacements. I'm against that.
I approached Hendricks asking him to look into this, but he is now very busy. I don't know when and if he will conceptualise and implement solution to hardcoded offsets.
So this is current state of animated stuff. At least in regard to complicated multi-frame objects. I hoped that solution could be based on something from HRP that LeoD mentioned (simple 'ignore hardcoded pivot' token?), but according to Hendricks explanation, this subject is way more complicated that I imagine. I'm sure he knows what he is talking about. I'm worried if solution will come.

I hope I'm clear about everything. I'm quite tired and my English is far from perfect even when I'm well

Zaxtor, on 03 June 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

Mine is damn beautiful from the sample photo you've shown on May 24
Can't wait for the animated toilet so I can replace the ordinary boring toilet of Duke and recode it so it works with the frames

Thanks! This was a tough one, glad that it came out ok.
I'm curious how this flushing will look like in game

Cheers

[Danukem]

With sprites you can guarantee centering by adding invisible pixels as buffers. So let's say you have an animated sprite that varies in size between 48 pixels and 63 pixels on the two dimensions. You make the entire animation centered in 64x64 tiles, with the unused pixels left with the background transparency pink color. I don't know if voxels have an equivalent to the background color though.

This technique should not be used on sprites that are blocking or hitscannable though, unless the very first frame of the animation happens to be the one with the largest dimensions.

[Jimmy]

My suggestion is to keep versions of the models that have been unmolested by the limitations of hardcoded behaviour. This also future proofs when things are fixed engine side.

[Hendricks266]

Could someone help me by making test maps for SW and Blood that run in their respective DOS versions containing every original voxel?

[Gambini]

Trooper Dan, on 03 June 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

With sprites you can guarantee centering by adding invisible pixels as buffers. So let's say you have an animated sprite that varies in size between 48 pixels and 63 pixels on the two dimensions. You make the entire animation centered in 64x64 tiles, with the unused pixels left with the background transparency pink color. I don't know if voxels have an equivalent to the background color though.

This technique should not be used on sprites that are blocking or hitscannable though, unless the very first frame of the animation happens to be the one with the largest dimensions.

You can achieve the same with offset on tiles, which afaik applies to both voxels and sprites.

EDIT: I did post that without reading Borion´s post. Forget about it.

[Borion]

Trooper Dan, on 03 June 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

With sprites you can guarantee centering by adding invisible pixels as buffers[...]

Yes Dan, in the beginning I used modified version of this technique on Atomic Health. But rest of problems remained, so it was a partial solution.
But thanks for sharing your knowledge, much appriciated!

Jimmy 100MPH, on 03 June 2019 - 06:36 PM, said:

My suggestion is to keep versions of the models that have been unmolested by the limitations of hardcoded behaviour. This also future proofs when things are fixed engine side.

Yes Jimmy, I thought the same, but amount of extra work & complications that it causes are huge. We are talking about hundreds of voxel frames here - please keep in mind we are not done with all animated stuff - and without wonders of 2D animation programs, like onion-skin view, etc. this is going to be extremely laborious. I'm not lazy, but I - and other members of this forum - have limited amount of time that I can devote to these stuff. Adjusting pivots for ONE actor for couple of hours going back and forth between Goxel/Qubicle, SLAB6, WinZip, Notepad, EDuke32 is not optimal solution by any means. If you think so, please try that
Anyway thanks for input, man!

Hendricks266, on 03 June 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

Could someone help me by making test maps for SW and Blood that run in their respective DOS versions containing every original voxel?

Happy to see you devoting time to this matter - absolutely no sarcasm here!
I hope some seasoned mappers can help. If not, I will set up DosBox on my rig and try provide you suitable map for Blood. I have zero experience with SW.
On a sidenote, damn I wasn't using Blood MapEdit since first class of Highschool...well, that brings me like 20 years back <imagine old geezer gif here>

I'm happy that You all try to help somehow, people.

PS. I said 'Ion Storm' where I obviously meant Ion Maiden. This time when Daikatana Romero Trauma kicks in...

[Jimmy]

Borion, on 03 June 2019 - 10:43 PM, said:

Yes Jimmy, I thought the same, but amount of extra work & complications that it causes are huge. We are talking about hundreds of voxel frames here - please keep in mind we are not done with all animated stuff - and without wonders of 2D animation programs, like onion-skin view, etc. this is going to be extremely laborious. I'm not lazy, but I - and other members of this forum - have limited amount of time that I can devote to these stuff. Adjusting pivots for ONE actor for couple of hours going back and forth between Goxel/Qubicle, SLAB6, WinZip, Notepad, EDuke32 is not optimal solution by any means. If you think so, please try that
Anyway thanks for input, man!

The more salient point of my post there was that no one should go through all that trouble without first saving a version without all the hacky BS to get it to look right. Basically just reminding people not to double their work for no reason.

[Borion]

Jimmy 100MPH, on 04 June 2019 - 12:23 AM, said:

The more salient point of my post there was that no one should go through all that trouble without first saving a version without all the hacky BS to get it to look right. Basically just reminding people not to double their work for no reason.

I see, my misinterpretation.
Definitely agreed!

[Borion]

Fence (4429)


KVX: https://mega.nz/#!Rm...q6c0_tmSprZ6dOk
voxel "voxels/props/4429_fence1.kvx" { tile 4429 }

canwithsomething2 (4580)


KVX: https://mega.nz/#!Rz...IobQRvQZAi3-AMc
voxel "voxels/props/4580_canwithsomething2.kvx" { tile 4580 }

canwithsomething3 (4581)


KVX: https://mega.nz/#!J2...R7aagVchtVeuvXs
voxel "voxels/props/4581_canwithsomething3.kvx" { tile 4581 }

canwithsomething4 (4582)


KVX: https://mega.nz/#!4q...XUvOK9ylIhIW1mo
voxel "voxels/props/4582_canwithsomething4.kvx" { tile 4582 }

EDIT:
I forgot about this one
Deskphone (0962)


KVX: https://mega.nz/#!Qy...tTMqiWahgeSbmi8
voxel "voxels/props/0962_deskphone.kvx" { tile 0962 }

EDIT 2:
All links & .def codes are corrected, thanks to LeoD.
I'm half asleep, got to hit the bed now.

[LeoD]

Borion, on 04 June 2019 - 01:00 PM, said:

Fence (4429) canwithsomething2 (4580) canwithsomething3 (4581) canwithsomething4 (4582) Deskphone (4454)

Nice job as usual. But you've copy-pasta'd 0962's name to 4429. And the 4582 download link points to the fence once more instead of the barrel.

[Borion]

Chain (0920) - clean version (but obviously still rusty )


KVX: https://mega.nz/#!4i...d32FaAMGELvl1AU

[Striker]

Suggestions:

669 - Vacuum
1160 to 1166 - Various Bottles of Booze
4367 - Coat Rack
4373 - Stack of Styrofoam Cups
4536 - Condiment Cups
4539 - Napkin Dispenser
4557 - Tampon Dispenser

[Zaxtor]

Some good suggestions


0024 Freezer gun (dunno if was made or not)
was mentioned before I think page 11s


0563 (water fountain off)
0564-0566 (water fountain on)
0567 (water fountain broken)

0762 (Of course the Microphone)

0955 (Bottle 2)
0956 (bottle 3) knocked down bottle
0957 (glass of wine with an olive inside or something) dunno if this one will work well, it might
1045 (box of donuts with cups around it and 2 donuts infront)