[SwissCm]

High Treason, on Jul 31 2010, 12:38 PM, said:

Oh dear, another GayStation fanboy it's people like you that ruined gaming.

I completely skipped the PSX/N64/SAT console generation, I only had a PC at the time. I'm certainly not a fanboy, I can just understand that there are plenty of games available for the Playstation that people loved. Sports games were popular on the platform too.

Quote

Saturn was not "Terrible" - though its true that it was hard to develop for, mostly due to having two processors and nobody knowing how to use them, especially given that Sega would not send out the documentation or development hardware, and people are still baffled today by various aspects of the system. Otherwise you can not argue with it, it was by far the most advanced.

No, it wasn't the most "advanced". Hell, the main processors in it were two SH2s which were previously used in the 32X. It's 3D capabilities were extremely poor and suffered from many graphical artifacts thanks to it rendering quads instead of triangles.

Quote

Sega pioneered most of the technology and methods used today, including use of multiple processors wether you like it or not

HAHAHA No. Atari went with multi-processor designs for home consoles way before Sega did and it's not like Sega did it well anyway. The two SH2s are bottlenecked and it is literally impossible to use their full potential, something that wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the ad-hoc design decisions they made in order to compete with the Playstation.

Quote

hey, I was a Nintendo fan, but even I admitted this and that Nintendo had flaws of their own.

All the consoles had flaws, some more severe than others. The Playstation is probably the most elegant design despite the quality control issues with the CD laser in early model revisions. The fact that they are still manufacturing a miniturised version of the Playstation hardware (the I/O chip in the PS2) is a testament to the platform's versatility. The N64 wasn't quite as well designed, but it could pull off some pretty great stuff when pushed hard. It's certainly more powerful than the PSX or Saturn, despite it's shitty texture memory. The only truly impressive 3D engine I can remember on the saturn was Lobotomy's Slavedriver engine which was used for Powerslave, Duke3D and Quake and even that is beaten out by later N64 games (Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine is a good example as are most Factor 5 games).

Quote

Look up "Sonic X treme - Saturn" on YouTube and you try to tell me for one second that it would not have made Nintendo shit their pants had Sonic Team not been the bunch of failures they were (Failing to complete around 60% of the games they were supposed to make) yeah, right.

Sonic Team weren't even developing Sonix Xtreme, STI was. Besides, graphically that doesn't even compare favourably to Mario 64, let alone Conker's Bad Fur Day or the Banjo Kazooie series.

Quote

Speaking of Nintendo, yeah, there were decent games, but that was all, other than that, still a poor system with poor design, might have had power but it had no way of using it, see it as a bottle neck at the end of a thick tube of awesome trying to escape. You can not deny for one second that lack of DMA on a 200Mb/s BUS with an effective 4Kb of Video RAM was a very poor choice for Nintendo. Later games looked OK (Conker's Bad Furday for example - awesome game) due to the fact that programmers spent about two months coding ways of bypassing the major flaws with memory limits and flawed hardware, if only they spent that long with the Saturn....

So what you're saying is that the N64 is flawed but if time is spent optimising games can look fantastic and the Saturn is flawed but if time is spent optimising games can look fantastic, yet somehow the Saturn has the better hardware? Nintendo may have made some bad hardware decisions but the Saturn was even worse! Games actually being good or not is a matter of taste anyway so it's pointless arguing about that.

Quote

PlayStation does have design flaws, everything does, even the Nintendo 64 doesn't suffer that wobbly graphical rubbish that sets off everyones epilepsy

Sets off everyones epilepsy? The Playstation is one of the most popular electronic device to exist! The artifacts don't bother me and I'm sure it doesn't bother the majority of the population. I find it funny that you go on about the Playstations awful polygon rendering when, as mentioned earlier, the Saturn had it's own distracting rendering quirks.

Quote

even... going back to it, the Commodore 64 which was never designed to render polygonal graphics at all does not have this issue. And if you don't think melting disc drives are a design flaw I seriously don't know how you dare contradict me. The PlayStation is based on designs for Nintendo, intended to be linked to the Super Famicom (The same way the SatellaView did) - a fourth generation console, the PlayStation suffers because of this.

A ZX Spectrum can renderer 3D polygons. Fuck, anything that is capable of rasterising an image is capable of 3D polygons. The technology used in demo you linked, while impressive at a technical level would be impractical to use in a game. Regarding the melting disc drives the use of plastic gears in the Playstation's CD Drive is a mechanical flaw and since we are talking about the technology I don't think it's relevent.
And you say the Playstation suffers for being based off hardware originally meant for being an addon? How? By linking to an older console, does the newer technology in the add-on has to be inferior for some reason?

Quote

Also, my 386 was beating the PlayStation already, and that was effectively a consumer level device by that point and it wasn't even designed to do games, here, Ultima Underworld came out 1992, older than even Wolfenstien 3D yet looks better than most of those PlayStation games, it had 3D objects and Dynamic lights in places, though it had to be scaled back due to lack of computer power, however, makes you realise how old that PlayStation was by then.

Oh geez scaled back due to computer power well golly gee maybe that's because your 386 wasn't as powerful as the Playstation! Not to mention that at the time Origin 3D games mocked for not running well on any system that existed. Framerates were in low-teens on even relatively high-end hardware and that was with a small viewport and very limited 3D geometry. The Playstation could pull off 3D scenes far more complex than UU at 60fps.

Quote

If you wanna carry on the debate, can we not do so in this thread? I don't want to trash someone elses... Oh wait, I just noticed, blackhearted started it, screw it.

It's sorta pointless, you're too stubborn probably because of ass burgers. I have assburgers too, though I have the advantage of being correct.

[Hendricks266]

High Treason, on Jul 30 2010, 07:03 PM, said:

Funny really, because people like me that collect such systems spend more time oggling over the Saturn as a very sad thing, that console was way ahead of its time and finished middle of its generation mainly due to bad management from Sega, but as a console it is absolubtely phenominal.

While that may be true for the Saturn, I would say it is 1000x as true for the Dreamcast. The problem is that SEGA really sucks as a company. They really do. The Sonic franchise has gone to shit since Sonic Adventure. They pulled the Saturnday bullshit, got their asses whooped, then did the exact same shit again with the Dreamcast allowing the PS2 and XBOX to rip its head off and shit down its neck.

As for being slightly more on-topic with the generation 5 debate, I think each system has its good points and shitty points, and I'm not being a centrist.

Using cartridges and low-end specs for the N64 was shitty, but it fits right in line with Nintendo's (and this one guy whose name I do not remember, who was a major force behind the Game Boy) tradition of selling older than cutting edge hardware for a profit. You saw it with the DS, you saw it with the Wii, you'll see it again with the 3DS. Software engineers will always be able to do awesome shit because they have the time and get paid for it. Look at first-party titles for each system.

The Saturn was unfortunately too complex, and it's this fact with the 32X's utter stupid failure that likely cause the beginning/foreshadowing of SEGA's demise. Just like the N64, there is good stuff for the Saturn. I wouldn't look towards Sonic Xtreme, it was canceled. (D'oh.) I'd say look towards NiGHTS, Burning Rangers, Shining Force III, and nothing else comes to mind since I'm not knowledgeable about pre-Dreamcast SEGA game libraries.

The PSX didn't have many flaws that I know of (never owned anything other than SEGA or Nintendo) besides being weak itself. Keep in mind that the Dreamcast (which for a time was sold alongside the PSX) could emulate the PlayStation at sometimes better quality than the PSX itself. That's right. While Bleem got its cock cut off by SEGA, it demonstrated a lot about the PSX.

Even on my Pentium 4, I can emulate the N64 and PSX smoothly. The Wii can emulate the N64 and PSX smoothly. Not the same with the Saturn, whether it's due to complexity or "advance".

[/rant]

[blackharted]

High Treason, on Jul 30 2010, 07:38 PM, said:

Oh dear, another GayStation fanboy it's people like you that ruined gaming.
I'm not gonna bash you, because I kind of like you (as a forum member anyway) - so I'll jsut correct the errors in your otherwise sound argument.

Saturn was not "Terrible" - though its true that it was hard to develop for, mostly due to having two processors and nobody knowing how to use them, especially given that Sega would not send out the documentation or development hardware, and people are still baffled today by various aspects of the system. Otherwise you can not argue with it, it was by far the most advanced. Sega pioneered most of the technology and methods used today, including use of multiple processors wether you like it or not - hey, I was a Nintendo fan, but even I admitted this and that Nintendo had flaws of their own. Look up "Sonic X treme - Saturn" on YouTube and you try to tell me for one second that it would not have made Nintendo shit their pants had Sonic Team not been the bunch of failures they were (Failing to complete around 60% of the games they were supposed to make) yeah, right.

Speaking of Nintendo, yeah, there were decent games, but that was all, other than that, still a poor system with poor design, might have had power but it had no way of using it, see it as a bottle neck at the end of a thick tube of awesome trying to escape. You can not deny for one second that lack of DMA on a 200Mb/s BUS with an effective 4Kb of Video RAM was a very poor choice for Nintendo. Later games looked OK (Conker's Bad Furday for example - awesome game) due to the fact that programmers spent about two months coding ways of bypassing the major flaws with memory limits and flawed hardware, if only they spent that long with the Saturn....

PlayStation does have design flaws, everything does, even the Nintendo 64 doesn't suffer that wobbly graphical rubbish that sets off everyones epilepsy (I can't even look at the TV if a PS1 is running sometimes) - even... going back to it, the Commodore 64 which was never designed to render polygonal graphics at all does not have this issue. And if you don't think melting disc drives are a design flaw I seriously don't know how you dare contradict me. The PlayStation is based on designs for Nintendo, intended to be linked to the Super Famicom (The same way the SatellaView did) - a fourth generation console, the PlayStation suffers because of this.

Also, my 386 was beating the PlayStation already, and that was effectively a consumer level device by that point and it wasn't even designed to do games, here, Ultima Underworld came out 1992, older than even Wolfenstien 3D yet looks better than most of those PlayStation games, it had 3D objects and Dynamic lights in places, though it had to be scaled back due to lack of computer power, however, makes you realise how old that PlayStation was by then.

If you wanna carry on the debate, can we not do so in this thread? I don't want to trash someone elses... Oh wait, I just noticed, blackhearted started it, screw it.

Playstation fanboy? hell no I'm an XBOX fanboy, from what i can be bothered to read from your post it seems you are favoring the Saturn over the PS? LOL the Saturn was a terrible system, really crappy. And your comment about the N64 having bad memory? thats wrong. I never had a promblem with it.

[Spirrwell]

*sigh
If all of you are going to fight about "some of the best" consoles, create a new thread and quit thread-jacking here. If no one does create a new thread for it, I will within 3 hours. You're getting as bad as when DNF is discussed.

[blackharted]

Spirrwell, on Jul 31 2010, 06:57 AM, said:

*sigh
If all of you are going to fight about "some of the best" consoles, create a new thread and quit thread-jacking here. If no one does create a new thread for it, I will within 3 hours. You're getting as bad as when DNF is discussed.

Well this is my thread, so we can argue all we want.

[Spirrwell]

blackharted, on Jul 31 2010, 11:23 AM, said:

Well this is my thread, so we can argue all we want.

Hmmm, whatever, don't blame me if a moderator changes this.

[blackharted]

Spirrwell, on Jul 31 2010, 12:37 PM, said:

Hmmm, whatever, don't blame me if a moderator changes this.

Doubt it

[SwissCm]

I declare myself winner of the thread

[blackharted]

SwissCm, on Aug 2 2010, 12:41 AM, said:

I declare myself winner of the thread

Oh a kidder

[Valdsator]

blackharted, on Jul 30 2010, 04:19 PM, said:

EVERYONE no let me rephrase that, REAL gamers loved the PS EVERYONE liked the N64! OK? EVERYBODY!!!
Theres NO WAY anything you said could be true. I mean really some of the greablah blah blah blah blah...

blackharted, on Jul 25 2010, 04:10 PM, said:

Don't troll or go off topic

Uhh...

Edit: And, to actually contribute to the topic...hmm. For now, Time to Kill, but that's only because I still haven't played some of the 3rd party Duke games. I'm sure my choice will change.

[blackharted]

Valdsator, on Aug 2 2010, 08:44 AM, said:

Uhh...

Edit: And, to actually contribute to the topic...hmm. For now, Time to Kill, but that's only because I still haven't played some of the 3rd party Duke games. I'm sure my choice will change.

Ahh I see we have a fairly guy new here, who seems to be a bit of joker, well nice try trying to piss me off but you made me laugh instead.

[canada4duke]

blackharted, on Aug 2 2010, 02:39 PM, said:

Ahh I see we have a fairly guy new here, who seems to be a bit of joker, well nice try trying to piss me off but you made me laugh instead.

New guy? bit of a joker? Piss you off? made you laugh? - But that's my job!

[Inspector Lagomorf]

Lolwut.

[Valdsator]

blackharted, on Aug 2 2010, 01:39 PM, said:

Ahh I see we have a fairly guy new here, who seems to be a bit of joker, well nice try trying to piss me off but you made me laugh instead.

I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm just pointing out the irony, and showing that you perhaps should go back on topic, as you should be following your own rules.

canada4duke said:

New guy? bit of a joker? Piss you off? made you laugh? - But that's my job!

Oh crap, sorry! D: Dun kill me.

[Shawneth]

Blackharted, do you ever do anything but get everyone angry? LOL.

[blackharted]

oporix, on Aug 6 2010, 10:42 AM, said:

Blackharted, do you ever do anything but get everyone angry? LOL.

I make girls moan! errrr.... I did just say that out load? Oh God I meant A GIRL! I'm not cheating on her! la la la

[SwissCm]

philips cdi is da best