[Rellik]

It's closer for sure, but there are still issues with tints. I played around with tints a while back and PAL2 in particular is difficult to replicate.

I made a post over at the 3dr board while back detailing my findings:

Quote

Tints are used where the entire palette is changed. This applies to palettes 1 (blue underwater), 2 (Lava Red), 4 (blackout), 6 (inverted night goggles), 7 yellow, and 8 (green)

I played around with red, but I made the discovery that the reason red looks dramatically "evil" in classic is because the reds are actually "brighter" in the original palette than can be achived with tints.

Take this gray color for example: (148, 136, 140) and compare it to it's red equivalent (216, 52, 20) here's the percent difference: 145%, 38%, 14%. In order to tint it properly, the red cannot exceed 100% or you will have a problem with saturation and contrast.

I got kinda close by adjusting saturation and contrast, but that isn't currently possible with tints.

Take a look at this image which uses the original pals:

here's the current tint:


and here's what PAL2 looks like with the new tint:


The current tint appears to be an attempt to replicate the light shaded colors like light greys, light blue and tans, and the new tint appears to replicate the dark shaded colors like brown dark blue and darker greys. This goes back to the problem where the contrast of PAL2 is on a different scale than tints can currently achieve, if that makes sense.

[Roma Loom]

and now I wonder how tint works in the engine in terms of math.. because I've managed to get almost exact pal2 in Photoshop using your screenies and overlaying a 224/76/31 filled layer with "color" blendmode.
[edit] On the other hand the textures will completely lose their colors if something like "color" blend mode will be implemented in tinting routine.

[Plagman]

Tinting just multiplies the color you give it with each of the texels, component per component. That's far from achieving the whole effect of a palette shift, but Polymost was targetted at graphics hardware that wasn't able of doing much more. Nowadays, the exact palettes + shade offsets could be replicated for 8-bit tiles in Polymer and that's something that's on my list, but it's somewhat low-priority compared to other stuff.

[Tea Monster]

You guys are probably going to laugh your socks off, but have you ever thought of applying to Google Summer of Code to get some help to brush up the engine?

Before you laugh too loudly, be aware that freaking 'Crystal Space' was accepted.

[Rellik]

Heh, here's a comparison for colors 1-32:


The fist graph shows a fairly nice linear progression, but the second graph shows red taking an abruptly different angle at the 17 mark.

Digging a bit deeper, I think I know why. PAL2 was basically a copy/paste of the 9th and 14th shade groupings from the main palette.

[Hendricks266]

@Tea Monster:
That might be more trouble than it's worth, considering all of Duke 3D and the BUILD engine's idiosyncrasies.

[Master Fibbles]

I just finished playing through Episode 1. It looks great and there were only a few times when I had skips. However, in The Abyss there are definitely places that are unplayable not because of the lights but because of the lack of lights. It is too dark and you can't see anything so I had to use the map to find my way through. I felt like I was playing Doom3...

[Hendricks266]

Rellik, on Jul 17 2010, 03:41 PM, said:

Heh, here's a comparison for colors 1-32:


The fist graph shows a fairly nice linear progression, but the second graph shows red taking an abruptly different angle at the 17 mark.

Digging a bit deeper, I think I know why. PAL2 was basically a copy/paste of the 9th and 14th shade groupings from the main palette.

All palette swaps are limited to colors originally contained in the palette. The 8-bit colors were not that advanced tints; they just replace one color group with another.

[Night Wolf]

Mr.Flibble, on Jul 18 2010, 11:30 AM, said:

I just finished playing through Episode 1. It looks great and there were only a few times when I had skips. However, in The Abyss there are definitely places that are unplayable not because of the lights but because of the lack of lights. It is too dark and you can't see anything so I had to use the map to find my way through. I felt like I was playing Doom3...

I have no problems with the abyss in terms of framrate and it doesnt seem to dark to me either , dankness adds a sence of fear if used well... but the abyss needs more tratment in matching light colours to the enviroment ...
mainly the green colours ... the starting sewer green is perfect then it gets a bit fluro green(which looks bad) .. and the boss chamber green looks a bit off ( a kind of aqua colour :S) ... imo the colours of the light should match the colours of the original 8bit tiles

also theres some glitch problems with E1L1, the shadows disappear and reappear (mostly seen in the area near the cinema sign)

[Danukem]

Tea Monster, on Jul 17 2010, 01:06 PM, said:

You guys are probably going to laugh your socks off, but have you ever thought of applying to Google Summer of Code to get some help to brush up the engine?

Before you laugh too loudly, be aware that freaking 'Crystal Space' was accepted.

Quote

Crystal Space is a mature, full-featured software development kit (SDK) providing real-time 3D graphics for applications such as games and virtual reality. It is free (LGPL) and cross-platform (Windows, GNU/Linux, Mac OS X).

Based on that description, Crystal Space sounds much more general purpose than EDuke32, and I would guess that's a big point in its favor. Also, according to Google, Summer of Code offers stipends only to student developers, by which I'm guessing they mean students who are enrolled in software development courses at universities. I'm not sure if that describes anyone around here.

[Plagman]

I think TM was talking about submitting EDuke32 as a GSoC mentor organization to get some free manpower in the form of applying students. I'm fairly sure the scope is a little too limited for Google to sign off on that, and that would require me to be a GSoC mentor; that would probably end up being way more time consuming than doing everything I planned myself. :-)

[Master Fibbles]

ozz, on Jul 18 2010, 02:44 AM, said:

I have no problems with the abyss in terms of framrate and it doesnt seem to dark to me either

Do you have the game set to be extra bright? It could be a settings issue or something.

I'll take a screen of the area I am talking about (with the map shown so it doesn't look like a black box)

[Night Wolf]

Mr.Flibble, on Jul 19 2010, 03:13 AM, said:

Do you have the game set to be extra bright? It could be a settings issue or something.

I'll take a screen of the area I am talking about (with the map shown so it doesn't look like a black box)

I've got my ambient light level set to 0.50 , which is pretty dark, but it seems more natural , as from my brigtness settings there practically on default, maybe slightly darker.

although ive only really had a quick play though on the abyss in terms of looking at the new lighting.

yeah post up a screen shot

Edit:
Actually I see what you mean ... the area leading to the spaceship, just after the wall comes down near the lava pit.. is really dark , a few other places too

[Master Fibbles]

When you first enter the canyon area:


Leading up to ship area:



I'm not sure if the fire is projecting right in the first shot because I don't remember it being that dark the first time through.

[Night Wolf]

Yeah they definitely need light
The area in the second screenshot, is only being lit up by the "atomic healths" as soon as you grab them its lights out, pitch black

[Plagman]

Mr.Flibble, on Jul 9 2010, 02:48 PM, said:

But then if you turn just a little, they become circular again like this:
duke0001.jpg

BTW, this is now fixed as of revision 1674.

[Night Wolf]

Hasn't been any lighting updates in a while...
Episode 1 still need a bit of tuning,
and Ep 3 hasn't been touched...

Anyone going to get back into lighting?

[Falco]

Dynamic lighting looks cool, but the performance hit it causes from just a few lights in the level makes it not worth it. I think it would have been better to implement baked radiosity lightmaps (like Half-Life) and have dynamic lights for special effects since they're so expensive to render. At least with that method, more people could take advantage of better looking non-sector based lighting.

I saw one Duke port several years back that had some alpha builds with radiosity and it looked pretty good, though it disappeared which was a disappointment.

[Micky C]

ozz, on Sep 20 2010, 02:11 AM, said:

Hasn't been any lighting updates in a while...
Episode 1 still need a bit of tuning,
and Ep 3 hasn't been touched...

Anyone going to get back into lighting?

I might have a go at it. I already lit the first two duke it out in dc maps, and was halfway through the third. I'll definitely be able to get it done it's just a matter of how long I'll take, as I'm just about to release my own map, and the rest of the year will be somewhat busy with exam preparation and things.

Can someone post up a list of levels that still need to be lit?

[Micky C]

Tout le monde, je vous presente E1l1 Raw Meat Polymerized!

I think you're going to like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85pbJCyW9H0...e=youtube_gdata I even added some final touches after making this video

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Edit: for those who want to try it out, just copy the above code, open up the e1l1 maphack in the polymer hrp zip, and paste it in.

[LeoD]

Actually Raw Meat is E3L1, so E3L1.mhk is the file to edit.

Looks good, but is crash-prone on my machine.

For testing purposes it is sufficient to have the newer E3L1.mhk lying around in the game folder.

If you plan on illuminating more levels you should ask for SVN access.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[Micky C]

Oh yeah e3l1, don't know how I could have gotten that one wrong...

I'm planning to do episode 3, and if no one else steps up I might as well do all the unlit levels eventually. Like most people I'm fairly busy in real life, especially for the next 3 months, and then DNF will come out but the good thing is the episode 3 levels are relatively short, so I'll likely be able to find time for them.

I'm guessing NightFright would be the one to ask about SVN access, so I'll send him a pm.

[Micky C]

Sorry for the double post, but I'd like to draw attention to the new set of polymer lights for e3l2 Bank Roll: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD7ztWuvUZo...e=youtube_gdata

It seems as though the floor of the room in which you have to open the 3 doors, next to the vault, doesn't like to receive light from point lights, which is a real shame. If that is the case, then it's probably a similar bug to what happened in the projector room of e1l1 hollywood holocaust, but IIRC Plagman was able to fix that.

Once again to try this out, copy it into the e3l2 maphack, although I'm in the process of hopefully gaining access to the SVN.

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[Micky C]

e3l6 rabid transit has been done, no video this time. With this level, there are a large amount of spotlights in one sector (the track) and this seems to cause them not to light up floors and ceilings most of the time, which is unfortunate as I planned for the trains to be swimming in light at the stopping points

EDIT: Lights have been fixed, and the code below has been updated, enjoy.

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light  184   27776 -59264 -8192  3000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  184   18176 -54144 -14336  3000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  184   40960 -46976 -10240  3000  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  184   40960 -50432 -10240  3000  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  133   30400 -27392 12288  10000  255 225 200   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  118   28416 -15744 -19456  2000  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  128   30080 -15104 -19456  500  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  184   40896 -43840 -9216  3000  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  118   31872 -15744 -22528  2000  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   4 -1
light  91   30752 -50048 -9216  1000  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  184   27776 -19712 -9216  3000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  184   34688 -17280 -10240  3000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  184   32640 -19712 -9216  3000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  184   42112 -24704 -10240  3000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  184   39808 -26752 -10240  3000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  184   19456 -46976 -14336  5000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  184   32640 -59264 -14336  3000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  184   34688 -61440 -14336  3000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  158   32256 -51280 -8192  500  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  158   31744 -51280 -8192  500  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  161   32224 -51936 -8192  500  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  164   37120 -43008 -15360  1400  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  163   30048 -48192 -4096  500  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  159   32256 -47456 -5120  300  0 0 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  159   32768 -47456 -5120  300  0 0 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  159   32768 -47472 -12288  300  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  159   32256 -47472 -12288  300  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  159   31744 -47456 -5120  300  0 0 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  158   32768 -51280 -8192  500  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  159   31744 -47472 -12288  300  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  141   34560 -41216 -28416  10000  255 225 235   352 264 1024 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  146   32368 -44708 -28416  10000  255 225 235   138 103 1758 50   0 0   0 -1
light  184   40960 -32128 -14336  5000  100 100 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   2 -1
light  108   36864 -51584 -13312  1500  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1

[Plagman]

Is it all lights or just a few lights that don't seem to affect this particular floor? Looking at your earlier Bank Roll video, it seemed that the vault floor was getting lit properly, just that the sector was too big for the light count (r_pr_maxlightpasses). For Rabid Transit, isn't the whole track basically a huge sector? I could see that being a problem.

[Micky C]

It's that that big a problem, the player can still easily see where he's going if he's walking along. It would be good though if I could put a light inside the train sector, and it'd move with the train though.

As for bank roll, I made a 30 second video with the room given a dark shade to hopefully shed some light on the issue (no pun intended.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiZV9wBZ4LY...e=youtube_gdata

Edit: this should be the code for e3l7 Fahrenheit but when I test it out, several of the lights don't show up in-game. I counted them up and they're all there, in fact there are lights in the code than I could find in my map so I don't know what's going on. If someone's going to test this out for me, could they post or pm me whether there's a giant spotlight as soon as you get out into the open? That's not the only light that's not showing up but it's the most noticeable.

light  228   -14528 -26176 -46080  1300  102 90 94   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  228   -14464 -27008 -45056  500  255 225 200   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  193   -33280 -34176 -49920  2500  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  216   -34752 -30720 -49920  4000  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  216   -34752 -32064 -66304  15000  255 235 225   156 117 510 -40   0 0   0 -1
light  83   -33728 -16640 -66304  15000  255 235 225   306 229 1 -40   0 0   2 -1
light  145   -39424 -19392 29696  4000  60 60 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  219   -36160 -26880 -3840  800  255 225 200   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  150   -39424 -24832 29696  4000  60 60 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  135   -30080 -7552 -25344  1800  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  28   -19712 -25856 -10240  3200  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  220   -39424 -16128 25856  800  255 225 200   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  167   -13952 -15360 -22272  1000  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  170   -17664 -11904 -6912  500  255 225 200   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  58   -22912 -6400 -49920  1200  255 225 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  58   -26880 -6400 -49920  1200  255 225 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  138   -31744 -8448 -25344  1200  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  214   -30848 -34688 -43776  2500  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  135   -29952 -10368 -25344  2600  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  133   -31872 -6912 -25344  1000  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  58   -24960 -6400 -48896  1200  255 225 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  167   -12928 -15360 -22272  1000  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  228   -15328 -23616 -44032  2800  102 90 94   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  179   -9312 -24128 -48128  1300  255 225 200   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  123   -18560 -23424 -41984  2200  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  179   -9312 -22848 -47104  1300  255 225 200   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  159   -17664 -10720 -28672  3000  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  176   -30592 -6016 -28416  600  255 225 235   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  185   -20928 -20864 -8192  1200  255 225 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  225   -20864 -22016 -3840  1000  102 90 94   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  114   -13728 -23904 -48128  6500  255 225 200   356 267 0 30   0 0   0 -1
light  111   -19456 -21792 -41984  1500  255 225 200   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  93   -22912 -13824 -66304  18000  255 235 225   322 241 1925 -40   0 0   2 -1
light  195   -35712 -32704 -9984  2300  255 235 225   256 192 510 -40   0 0   2 -1
light  57   -28544 -8384 -66304  12000  255 235 225   316 237 2026 -40   0 0   2 -1

[Micky C]

I've done the lighting for e3l5 movie set. When DNF comes out a lot of people are going to become interested in Duke3D so it's best we have it look as good as possible to retain their interest.

light  159   44544 1408 13568  2000  40 40 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  75   29952 -1600 -8960  2000  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  159   43008 640 32000  2000  40 40 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  181   31488 32768 38912  2500  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  189   34048 21600 -4096  300  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  189   34048 21600 3072  300  0 0 255   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  163   46208 8896 -50176  2500  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  160   44800 7168 -47104  3000  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  182   46208 4160 -60416  800  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  47   33472 2816 -3840  2000  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  66   32000 7168 -5888  1500  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  75   32512 -768 -33536  4000  51 47 45   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  195   46272 6336 -58368  2500  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  174   29760 -3328 -3840  2500  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  49   35904 10496 -3840  2000  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  205   39168 18432 -76800  27000  220 205 255   156 117 1536 0   0 0   2 -1
light  167   29376 9600 -23552  1200  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  153   27776 15104 -14080  3000  255 150 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  193   28288 16640 -43008  2500  255 255 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  152   36096 6912 -44032  2500  255 255 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  123   36288 11776 -44032  2500  255 255 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  122   36224 16640 -44032  2500  255 255 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  90   31744 16640 -40960  2500  255 255 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  97   30912 6784 -44032  2500  255 255 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  88   25600 16896 -17408  2500  255 255 180   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  153   24256 15104 -14080  3000  255 150 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  73   26304 -1728 -28416  14500  220 205 255   284 213 504 50   0 0   2 -1
light  156   23616 8384 -24576  1500  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  80   28416 8960 -24576  1800  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  204   25216 9792 -16384  500  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  142   36096 15360 -2816  1000  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  57   24704 12352 -14336  900  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  121   25920 14461 -14080  8000  0 0 255   396 297 1536 100   0 0   2 -1
light  44   39040 21056 -768  2000  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  39   39104 22784 -768  2000  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  189   34048 23232 -1792  800  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  4   34496 22400 256  1000  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  38   31488 21760 -5120  2800  255 235 225   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  14   31488 30384 29696  3000  51 47 45   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  181   31488 34048 41984  800  255 0 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  200   22528 -512 -3840  1700  0 255 0   0 0 1536 -1   0 0   0 -1
light  171   29504 7232 -54016  12000  255 225 200   268 201 256 40   0 0   2 -1

[DavoX]

Well then the first episodes should be made first as they are the first thing they see

[bullerbullerseven]

Devastator, on May 29 2010, 10:40 AM, said:

have just finished e1l2, also i had some problems downloading stuff through svn so i also have maphack attached.

looks cool but why the heck is the level blue when it should be white lights? turn the lamp blue or the lights white

[Micky C]

DavoX, on Nov 18 2010, 12:50 AM, said:

Well then the first episodes should be made first as they are the first thing they see

I know you've been out of the community lately, so I'll point out that episode one is pretty much completely now by various people
Although I'll probably redo toxic dump myself as it wasn't done to a high standard (not many lights), and I'll also do launch facility which I don't think has been done yet.

Jhect, on Nov 18 2010, 01:57 AM, said:

looks cool but why the heck is the level blue when it should be white lights? turn the lamp blue or the lights white

Can you post screenshots of what you're talking about?

@TX or Plagman or someone, is it possible to see maphacked lights in mapster? It'd be much, much more efficient if I didn't have to completely replace all the lights other people have done when doing my own (thinking of levels done poorly), and I can also add one or two more lights to levels which are already finished (thinking of levels done well). It'd be even better if I could edit these lights, like if the code was turned back into SEs, which is only the reverse of making the maphacks in the first place.